Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Mind Poison and PVP
Well, here it comes and I know im not going to be the first. Mind poison is too powerfull.
I spent a 2 hour pvp on Theed today. It involved 2 hours of watching people drop of Mind Poison on both sides. That was pretty much what happened and nothing else. Opposing CMs would throw a mind poison then run away, DIZZ hope your reading this. Anyway, I spent that 2 hours chasing and mind poisoning opposing CM out of spite.
And yes, our side had doctors. who were too busy getting poisoned themselves to help anyone else, the poison dropping them so quick that most of the time they couldnt heal even themselves.
This needs to change. Extremely annoying. There needs to be a better defense, or limit its damage, SOMETHING. It just ruined the experience for all involved. there was no strategy involved at all.
I wont be engaged in pvp until its fixed. I wont be using mind poison except on npcs.
Thats my opinion. Flame if you must. Experience the gheyness for yourselves.
my2creds
You make this sound like it was unexpected...
i've been predicting the game started...
this is hte ultimate outcome of the screwed up HAM system...
That doesn't mean that mind poison is too powerful. It means that the counter too it is not powerful enough, IMHO.
That's a two-fold approach meaning that Docs need better Cures and they should probably have some kind of Point-Blank/Personal AoE cure. (Or even give it to CMs, don't matter to me as long as there is a counter.)
The second is to address the inevitible first tick, same as on a mind bleed. A doc might be able to cure a poinson or FA a bleed but nothing can tuch that damage done. Mind RULES in PvP, period.
The biggest, baddest, TKA Master Trandoshan with all their unarmed plusses will simply die FAST if they follow the character creation suggestions and don't migrate their stats ALL into Mind. SWG should have the braniest bunch of bruisers of any game out there to properly survive in the game.
In other words, my contention is not that the poison is too strong, but that the counters are to weak or aresimply nonexistant.
---------------------------------CM------------BH---------Rifleman----
DPS 50-70 150-200 150-200
Can be cured? Yes No No
How often can be used? Every 10 sec Every 1 sec Every 2 sec
Can be done from low-posture? No Yes Yes
I don't see people complaing about eye-shot (see screenshot), which does 150 a pop every second and can not be healed, yet somehow our 400 every 7 seconds which can be cured by doc is a big problem ?
http://mfs.no-ip.com/swg/screenShot0099.jpg
actually, people are complaining about eye-shots.
The first issue is that doctors don't have an effectively balanced counter to the poison. Heal individual group members with the wound treatment timer in between takes time, it takes mind, and it takes multiple charges to counter just one poison charge which means much more crafting and crafting expenses. To correctly balance it, they would have to give a doctor an aoecure poison, or a combat medic aoecure poison. Someone must be able to cure it.
Second, damage is a little high. Even with fully migrated stats, a person will incap in 14-21 seconds depending on the race. People can run out of range from rifleman after the first shot, BHs I don't even want to touch or talk about. What they need may not be to lower mind damage, but to give better counters, either let more professions buff mind, or make the mind buffs from entertainers last MUCH longer, on par with doctor buffs. Anything to make the battles last longer. Combat between two good groups should be able to last for minutes, not seconds.
Personally, I'd like to see them add a aoe cure poison to the combat medic, and much better mind buffs (similar to the strength of doctor buffs) for entertainers. It makes sense to mee that a good poisoner should also have a good antidote, and aoe seems to be the realm of the combat medic.
Doctors have A counter to poison.
Noone has ANY counter to other mind damages (BH or rifleman)
> Second, damage is a little high.
DPS is much lower then BH or rifleman (or any other profession) so it is offset by being fire-and-forget.
> People can run out of range from rifleman after the first shot.
People can stay out of range from CM before the first shot.
Shortly after big patch many CMs posted solutions to Mind-Poison-without-LOS being overpowered, one of the solutions has been implemented (added LOS requirement), now people attacking mind damage are misguided, go after classes that can do it better then us first, when the solution found for them - apply it to us, if you want to offer solution - offer the one that covers all mind-dealing professions, not CM only.
> Doctors have A counter to poison.
Ineffective
> Noone has ANY counter to other mind damages (BH or rifleman)
That's why BH is on the nerf block. Rifleman were already nerfed and more changes may still come.
> People can stay out of range from CM before the first shot.
How are you supposed to know it is a combat medic? If they wear their tag out in the open? You can know a bounty hunter and rifleman and survive after the first shot has landed. Once a mind poison has landed, you are dead unless you are a doctor and have the cures on you.
> now people attacking mind damage are misguided,
It's not the damage that is the problem, it is the lack of ability to properly buff mind pools with doctor-like buffs, the lack of ability to heal the mind pools, and inability to get someone up from a mind incap that is frustrating. I say it is a lack of foresight on the part of the devs to anticipate the consequences of their design.
> if you want to offer solution - offer the one that covers all mind-dealing professions, not CM only.
i think my solutions do just that. Better mind buffs affect all mind dealing professions and increase demand for entertainers. Aoe cures for CM make CM's more useful in groups. cheap antidotes give CM's an outlet for making lots of cash, allows them to keep their mind damage, and will probably remove all complaints against the CM, while still keeping 90% of their effectiveness in solo PvP. It also balances aoe mind poisons out more so that large groups can still have a chance to fight a solo combat medic even if they don't have a doctor without removing demand for doctors and real poison cures.
I'd rather think of good solutions before they nerf us than have the devs think of one themselves and ruin our profession. I think my suggestions ADD to our profession, rather than take away and will make PvP more fun. Like I said, I like combat to last more than a few seconds.
> Ineffective
It's more effective then counter to other professions who do mind damage.
> That's why BH is on the nerf block.
Is it ? I have not heared about any proposals to make BH weaker (and I do read their forum). Last time someone proposed rifleman mind damage reduction on this forum he got jumped at by lots of people for saying "no no, don't nerf rifleman", but CM is ok...
> How are you supposed to know it is a combat medic?
If someone charging towards you without firing a gun it's either melee (will have melee weapon in his hands) or CM (will most likely have gun in his hand).
By the way the 30 sec KD limit did little for us, because poison-throwing abilities can be (and are) neutralised by many ways other then KD, and those ways (most of them) are not on any kind of timer.
> It's not the damage that is the problem, it is the lack of ability to
> properly buff mind pools with doctor-like buffs,
I don't like the idea of fixing mind damage using buffs, what does adding buffs do - delays your death till your poison cured (so you basicly nerfed CM and only CM as others still do not have counter measure)
> the lack of ability to heal the mind pools,
I agree that should be addressed. However the original post says:
"Mind poison is too powerfull."
Not mind damage, but mind poison. And that's what I am disagreeing with.
> and inability to get someone up from a mind incap that is frustrating.
Doctors can do it just fine.
> Aoe cures for CM make CM's more useful in groups.
> cheap antidotes give CM's an outlet for making lots of cash
We don't make them and can't use them, doctors do now, grab one in group with you and you will do just fine against solo CM.
Their should be a better counter to the mind poisin. That way the un-prepared can't cry Nerf for something that they had the oppurtunity to stop.
just my 3 cents.
Mind Damage in this whole game is just Screwy.
Fact is, there needs to be a counter for Every action in this game, otherwise the whole game is just unbalanced. People can Cause Direct Mind Damage and people can cause AOE mind Bleeds and poisons...Therfore the Counter to both these is AoE Poison and Disease cures and a Method to rapidly heal mind damage, yes HEAL.
The idea of AoE poison cures should go to doctors, Drop their single target cures down to the second box in each of the respective lines and then add a targetable or Point blankAOE option in the fourth box of both lines. If i can poison 20 poeple instantly, there neads to be a way to cure 20 people instantly. I don't know if the poor mans Cure is the way to go tho....If it were makeable it would be a Doctor item....and then everyone would have them...Maybe its the way to go, but if done that way poison is gonna become very dificult to use at all.
Mind heals - This needs to be added, Period. I suggest it is put in the dancer and musican trees...Hell they need to have a reason to leave the cantina...This would bring entertainers out to the battle field. Perhaps make it a targetable lightshow or something.
Anyhow, Mind damage altogether is the problem, not Poisons....although they need a more effectice counter too 