Combat Medic Archive
Thread: What would CMs think about..
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Orosc
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:44 am
#1
What if Combat Medics were more of what their class suggests?
BIG huge sweeping changes that are never going to be implemented.
Bonuses
First CMs get ability to use ALL combat related medicine, ranged and aoe version available.
Meaning CMs would get all the Statepacks (with range and possible availability of a ranged area effect that would drain more mind, even a universal statepack used for any state but only 1 at a time, and cost more);
Fire suppressionn blankets / fire extinguisher (ranged possibly aoe version), poison and disease cures. Revive packs, EVERYTHING that might be used in combat. Only master medic was needed as pre req (so CM melee a little more possible).
More general skill increases for CM, stuff like melee/ranged defense/terrain negotiation.
Possibly a very short term combat buff ability (adrenaline boost, increase all secondary stats by say 200, but only lasts about 5 mins, costs a fair amount in mind and resources so not in constant use)
Now for the downside.
Doctors get all your crafting skills, and keep revive, and statepacks they have now.(not the new far ranged or aoe). Also give them a darned All stats(HA not M of course)woundpack.
Commandos get your disease/posion packs in form of poison/disease nades.
Reasoning behind it all.
Doctors would be actually like doctors and be doing research or surgeries. Not typically on the battlefield.
Combat medics would also act like combat medic rather than half medic/half WMD. Beleive it or not CMs in WW2 just carried medicine on them, they werent the ones lobbing cannisters of nerve gas.
Commandos are the obvious choice for using the weapons as they are supposedly the most widely trained soldiers, already have gernade certs(which are currently completely unused), considered by some less effective in pvp.
Game changes predicted.
Doctors would be less common on battlefield, mainly used for crafting/buffing/healing wounds.
CMs would be on battlefield able to fix all adversities, but unable to deal damage as a CM(but freed SP could be spent on anything).
Commandos would get poison/disease nades, however they would be substantially weaker than current CM versions (as this was the only damage available to CMs and just one tool of a Commando) and they would be a bit harder to come by, Doc has to make component for weaponsmith, who then actually makes the nade.
Issues predicted.
CM has no way to make money to combat added expense of having to purchase medicine rather than make by himself. Partial solution is to make sure all products used by CM are reasonably low cost in resources (meaning lower prices). Other than that, the CM would almost have to make his money thru combat, becuase it is now a combat proffession (granted a supplemental one). Basically you should be able to do better missions with your CM abilities so should be able to offset the cost of being one.Oddly enough this would go with real world comparisons, doctors are rich, combat medics just get soldiers pay, but I still doubt thats what people want.
Schematics for doctors, Ive been both a Doctor and a CM and they both have loads and loads of crafting schematics, some consolidation would almost have to occur.
Disease/poison packsnow component for nade creation by weaponsmith, they would have to be much much weaker than they currently are, but I believe would still be used. Also give them the same limits as other dots, only 1 disease and poison at a time. Also would suggest tiered cert going up the nade tree (Class I Bioweapon certification, Class II, etc, do prevent dabblers from getting too powerful with it, granted if your dabblnig in commando youve spent a lot of SP already). Also could have possibility of compnent used in bio-Mines.
aeuralis
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:55 am
#2
One word answer NO.
I didn't spend 169 points to be a doc with weak poison. With current resist buffs, i can barely stick my posions now and have them do much damage.
Why should CM's be punished because you don't like DOTs? So what, pikeman to be the only ones that can stick DOTS?
We are not WWII medics, we are Bio/chemical warfare experts.
We have 72 offensive weapons and 6 support items.
Message Edited by aeuralis on 10-21-2004 11:19 AM
bonecircus
Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:05 am
#3
aeuralis wrote:
One word answer NO.
I didn't spent not spent 169 points to be a doc with weak poison. With current resist buffs, i can barely stick my posions now and have them do much damage.
Why should CM's be punished because you don't like DOTs? So what, pikeman to be the only ones that can stick DOTS?
We are not WWII medics, we are Bio/chemical warfare experts.
We have 72 offensive weapons and 6 support items.
/agree
Happymob
Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:07 am
#4
A big"no" from me as well. Yes, replacing CM offense with more medical ability may make CMs worth as much as they are today. The problem as I see it, is that you serisouly diminish the total capability of the doctor/combat medic combination. In many respects, docs are getting the shaft under your proposal. Sure, they have crafting. Sure they have buffs. But they already have those. You are effectively removing the use of a doctor on the battlefield.
I totally agree that the current split of abilities between doctor and CM is a bit screwy, but your proposal is effectively a net removal of abilities from the medical profession as a whole. Area state heals and area fire blankets is not a decent replacement for poison.
For what it's worth, I do agree that commandos deserve a boost. I would suggest that the appropriate place for a boost would be to make grenades both effective and unique. Why not have stun-producing grenades (concussion grenades), for example? Why not remove the damage that the thrower often takes from his own grenade? I wish commandos had more diverse offense, but removing abilities from CM is not the way to accomplish that.
Message Edited by Happymob on 10-21-2004 01:12 PM
Orosc
Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:40 pm
#5
My point is only part balance, its to have a said medical profession for in combat, and one for not. I believe this is what was originally intended, but they didnt implement it as so. Think about it, when was the last time a neurosurgeon was on the frontlines dodgeing bullets, and when was the last time a combat medic was researching and creating new medicine. I expected No to be the answer. I guess I should have prefaced that. The idea was to actually have combat medics be combat medics, able to cure any battlefield woe, quickly and effectively. I know that since the use of poison has been powerful alot of people have jumped on "the bandwagon" just becuase it was the only way to hurt jedi, and was devestating to pvp groups.
santachristo
Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:31 pm
#6
hmmm, part yes, part no.
crafting could go all to master doc.
healing states all to cms.
but if you take away our poisen, move sth in instead.
crafting could go all to master doc.
healing states all to cms.
but if you take away our poisen, move sth in instead.
eapers
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:40 pm
#7
I am all for making doctors the before and after people and the combat medics the during, and would not mind seeing poisons and diseases removed or reduced if doctor during battle items were mitigated into combat medic.
I really would hate to be dependant on doctor for supplies, but I could handle it.
Being a master medic who doesn't have to move to heal and a DoT warrior is getting old,so I must give a humble YES To the fundimental idea behind what you have written.
aeuralis
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:56 pm
#8
To get MCM, i have to spend 169 points that is tied with the most for any profession with BH and Commando. So to have CM be just a healing profession is fundunmentally unfair due to the skill point cost.Because CM coststwice what anelite combat profession does, WE should be powerful.
IF i wanted to be a healer, i would have been a doc. I am a CM to apply poison and disease. I am a CM to cause havoc and panic in my enemies.
Second the army does have surgeons near the battle field, There used to be called MASH units but they have a new name now.
eapers
Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:49 pm
#9
To get MCM, I had to spend hours in the squill cave and tusken bunker keeping people alive, throwing ranged stims and dragging them out of harms way. As a more advanced form of medic, it was my job to keep people alive. I felt like a medic suited for combat- a Combat Medic, more versatile than a doctor with extra range,and later with terrain negotiation making mebetter suited to keep up with a group on hills, better at burst running, and later still with the ability to mind heal.
But one day, I mastered Combat Medic, I got a factory, I started holding on to the ub3r resources, and then I was able to create poisons and diseases. Now I am very practiced in the the art ofpoisoning and diseasing, but I can't shake this feeling that I'm silly. I'm a glorified master medic (or a lazy one, with extended range)with a cheesy ability that abuses the games poor ham and armor system.
Silly.
You and I agree in one respect: We both feel Combat Medic should be powerful. BUT: It is my opinion that if I wanted to be like a Bounty Hunter, like a commando, I would simply grind and become a commando, become a commando, but the difference is that these particular professions are very, very bad in the current state of the game.
I am more inclined to think that Combat Medic should be the ultimate healing profession, with doctors the heros of before and after battle. And what could be more valuable than the ultimate medic? What if only Combat Medics could heal while in combat? What if only Combat Medics could (efficiently) heal mind? What if you were able to keep everyone fighting until you prevailed or failed? What if, what if...
Kadgarth
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:36 pm
#10
Orosc wrote:
Now for the downside.
Doctors get all your crafting skills, and keep revive, and statepacks they have now.(not the new far ranged or aoe). Also give them a darned All stats(HA not M of course)woundpack.
I would sooner shoot myself in the foot than give up crafting...I rake in over 10 Mill a week from that alone, and I hardly even advertise (though granted being the only CM crafter on my server my prices are a bit big 
)
)
aeuralis
Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:47 pm
#11
I am not suggesting that we be like commando or BH. What I am suggesting is that our power be directly related to our skill point cost.
I only brought up BH and Commando because i said that we were tied for the most. and felt in the interest of completeness that i mention who we were tied with.
Happymob
Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:02 am
#12
The idea of a pure in-combat super healer is a sound one. Suppose we do make combat medics the in-combat healers. Suppose we make docs the before and after healers (and perhaps the exclusive crafters, though I don't think that's required with appropriate inter-dependencies). We still need to do the following:
1) Change combat medic skill point requirements to match their new ability. In-combat healing with no offense will never be worth 169 skill points.
2) Change doctor skill point requirements to match their new ability. Removing combat healing removes one of the 3 primary doctor play styles (buffer, crafter, combat healer). Many doctors won't like being taken out of combat.
3) Move the poison and disease capabilities to some other (or new) profession. Maybe bio-engineer. I don't think commando is the appropriate place for poisons, though I am all for commando improvements.
Fundamentally the game needs poisons to keep the game from devolving into defense stacker templates and jedi. The bigger variety of offensive capabilities that exist in the game, the richer group combat will be. Yes, people will continue to complain about damage types that their template can't handle, but I see that as a good thing rather than a bad one (as long as the damage type can be handled by someone, which is clearly the case on poisons and diseases with the new area cures).
The idea of separating poisons from healing isn't bad, but I think it's a far more complicated change than suggested by the original poster.
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