CUEmu - Thread Posts

vortexala

Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:27 pm

Q - is there any chance of making diseases and poisions so that they do not cause as much damage, were it is at now if you run into a cm your dead plain and simple

A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.

Alright folks, this was a question and an answer given during the DevChat on July 15th.

Innoculations and Area Cures are something we've all thought about and discussed a lot in the past. I know a lot of us think any Area Cure should go to us(as the Ranged/Area healing specialists) and that we also want a piece of the action regarding the Innoculations.

So, if the devs ask why we should get it and not Docs, I want to give them a mountain of a response. I can do that on my own, but it would mean a lot more coming from the Combat Medic Community as a whole.

So, with that in mind...

How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)

How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)

And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?

Reaperss, Acidictadpole, PsionicHawk: Please feel free to edit yourcurrent posts to answer the questions posed. Sorry for thesudden edit.

Message Edited by vortexala on 07-15-2004 08:26 PM

~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...

Reaperss

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:25 pm

#2

Inoculations sure doesn't sound like mind heals, not good. Is he talking about area heals for poison/disease?

How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?

If we get stuck with Innoculations I think they should be implemented as follows:

Doc can craft,both Doc and CM can use them at master. They should be very complicated and include an actual poison or disease of the correct type in the final product. They should not be full proof, but provide a 15-30% chance to resist and reduce the damage 20-40%. They should last anywhere from 20-40 minutes. Mind heals would be a better solution....

How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)

Area cures should be ours, just like area stims. they can use the same a/b/c/d system and put them in the same boxes.

And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?

Because we are the COMBAT medics. Our support role is to keep our side alive during battle. The Doc's role is before and after the battle, not during.

Message Edited by Reaperss on 07-16-2004 12:04 PM

Ugo Deathbringer
-X Master Droid Engineer, X Master Merchant, X Master Artisan,
Don't hate da playa or da game, hate the Devs
Warn you we did, listen you did not, now screwed we all are

Acidictadpole

Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:56 pm

#3

By the way it sounds its gonna be some kind of shot to prevent being poisoned or diseased. Which actually sounds like a really cool idea.

Its putting more dependancy on doctors though, which im not sure how that will impact the game. Doctors are probably the most relied on profession in the game at the moment.

Tadpole McTad

Master Rifleman
Teras Kasi Master

Eclipse

Mesric City, Dantooine

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
You! Off my planet!
"16 days? Thats almost 2 weeks!" - Tucker

PsionicHawk

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:23 pm

#4

1. How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)

The componants that make most sense are the dispersial mechanism, chemical release controller, biological effect controller, and resilence compound. I'm hesistant about BEC's because of (relativly speaking) easy to acquire Janta Blood. I don't care too much about the number of resources required for the thing itself, let the devs figure it out.

There are a couple ways I see to implement this. First way would be a "buff-like" effect. When you get hit with a poison or disease it would subtract from the total level of the innoculation (example a 300 pack thrown by a master CM would be 600 tick damage. The inncoluation was for 1500. The posion pack would be totally negated and the innoculation would have 900 left. If thrown again it would have 300, and if thrown again the poison would start ticking at 300).

A second way, probably the easiest to do in terms of programming, would be to add a resistance modifier to the person that would stack with items and chef foods.

A third way would be to add a damage modifier to the innoculation.

Any of these could be satisfactory as long as they don't go overboard with them. (drastic examples that most CMs could agree with, 75% damage reduction is too much, 70% resistance is too much (esp if it can be stacked with chef foods), 5000 "tick prevention" is too much)

The duration should be between 15-30 min depending on expiramentation and resources.

However I want a tradeoff to come with this. To simply illistrate a point (not saying this would have to be the tradeoff, although itcould be) if you get an innoculation you can't get buffed.Ihate, for example,people suggesting that there be a poison layer that can be put into composite helms.

2. How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration (there would be none) ?)

We get the area cures. Heck if you want to discourage dabbling put the ability in the 4th tier crafting line. Componants used, Biological Effect Controller, Dispersial Mechanism, Chemical Release Controller (this makes the most sense to me). However if the BEC is left out due to Janta Blood issues I could understand.

I would say make this more or less equivilent to a Cure Poison/Diease A pack.

If doctors get this area cure I want state cures. It's that simple.

3. And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?

The big one, IT'S RANGED, it the whole reason we have to go marksmen0/0/0/4while doctors don't. CM's are the ones would should get the ranged devices. Besides who would know more about a cure then one who makes the disease (a strong argument for putting it in the CM crafting line). If the Dev's want to make us combat healers this would be a nice start (Doc's cure 12 of 13, the only advantage we have over doc's is the /healmind)

I'll leave more idea's up to others who aren't currentlyvery tired. I reserve the right to edit this post.... again

.

Message Edited by PsionicHawk on 07-15-2004 11:31 PM

Message Edited by PsionicHawk on 07-16-2004 12:26 AM

a Snodewejowoji a
FCM CorrespondentE
Alt: a TitanHawk a
Naritus

vortexala

Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:53 pm

#5

PsionicHawk wrote:

Are we getting the area cures? If doctors get area cures I want state cures, it's that simple.

Not sure who is getting the cures, but I want to be prepared just in case.

Alsois innoculations is resistance? Pure immunity? Any side effects/tradeoffs?

Again, not sure.

Past ideas have been to have them be similar to Doc Stat Enhancements(buffs), a percentage based immunity to landing a poison/disease on a person, pure immunity for a set timeframe, etc. That's why I want ideas of how it should be implemented

Sic em (the Devs) Tex. Go rattle their cage a bit (alot).

I'll do what I can

Message Edited by PsionicHawk on 07-15-2004 11:31 PM

~Texxie Xetrov~
Retired Mayor of Vesania, Corellia, Chilastra
Retired Combat Medic Correspondent(Feb 04 - Dec 04)

"A Day without sunlight is like.... night."
A CU Alpha Testers Disclaimer: This CU Alpha Test Contained neither Alpha nor Testing.
Play at your own risk, but don't blame us...

Herutehuti

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:13 pm

#6

vortexala wrote:

Q - is there any chance of making diseases and poisions so that they do not cause as much damage, were it is at now if you run into a cm your dead plain and simple

A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.

Alright folks, this was a question and an answer given during the DevChat on July 15th.

Innoculations and Area Cures are something we've all thought about and discussed a lot in the past. I know a lot of us think any Area Cure should go to us(as the Ranged/Area healing specialists) and that we also want a piece of the action regarding the Innoculations.

So, if the devs ask why we should get it and not Docs, I want to give them a mountain of a response. I can do that on my own, but it would mean a lot more coming from the Combat Medic Community as a whole.

So, with that in mind...

How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)

How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)

And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs?

Reaperss, Acidictadpole, PsionicHawk: Please feel free to edit yourcurrent posts to answer the questions posed. Sorry for thesudden edit.

Message Edited by vortexala on 07-15-2004 08:26 PM

Well, I believe Doctors should have the area cures. Combat medics dish out the poison and disease, doctors cure it.

Heru Kamau

MCM/MD

Vendor: Dr. Grant
-3394, 3655
Just a bit north of Mos Espa, Tantooine.

PsionicHawk

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:32 pm

#7

I guess a 4th way to implement the innoculations would be complete immunity, but I'm totally against that. I would also like to state I am not a fan of the damage reduction. It would all depend on how it's implemented though.

a Snodewejowoji a
FCM CorrespondentE
Alt: a TitanHawk a
Naritus

Morath360

Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:52 pm

#8

Well its late and Im tired so take this with a grain of salt. Innoculations should be for docs. It should reduce the power of the poison which is where I think its going. I can buy that the CM should get the area cures. However, I just dont want the entire focus of every conflict dependant on the life or death of the CM. If the CM gets both, they get all the power. It will be a fight to keep your CM, your queen if you will alive. I'm against that. However, the cures will be less of a factor if a doc can in essence reduce the poison to a managable level before the conflict starts by giving a shot. I am for that.

----------------------------------------------------

"In space all warriors are cold warriors.."

Morath {WRATH} MBH MD
Kahless {WRATH} Light Jedi Knight

Suba

Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:12 pm

#9

1. How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)

I think to make Combat medics have a purpose outside of the throwing ofpoisons and disease we should be inoculating People. A Huge complaint by people is that Cpmbat medics ignore the Medic Part. In real Life when you are dealing with deadly diseases are everything its a specialist who deals with it. As Combat medics are the Specialists creating these Posions and Diseases we should be the ones who have the special innoculation to it. This will Allow Combat medics to have more of a Medic side as well besides just death and destruction.

Resources Wise i would say maybe the exact same components as a Disease or Poison. Afterall Innoculations are simply a live cersion of what your preventing against. But have some system where its a shot instead of a thrown bomb of death. It should be something that Requires Master Combat medic. We have too many Dabblers as it is without letting any dabbler who wants it to get it. Its not fairfor those of us who are masters to get shafted for dabblers.

2.How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?)
Again i see this is a Combat Medics role. Doctors have the Basic Heals for Poison and Disease. Just as they Craft the Standard Stimpacks and Comnbat Medics make the Ranged and Area versions. Thus we should have the area Cure Poison/Diseases as area/ranged heals etc are Combat medic oriented and again give combat medic a use in the medic portion of thier role. and again Master Combat Medic to thwart dabblers!!!

3.And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs

We should be getting this to add more purpose to the Combat Medic. SO many people Complain that all we are is bringers of death and we arent supposed to be. While I dont fully agree with the arguement this will Give COmbat medics a role outside of just being the bringer of death. We will be a very viable and needed profession for more then just our ability to poison and disease. We will be wanted for our ability to counteract the Enemies Combat Medics.

00101000100110011101001011011111110100100010011111   Colonel Alec Suba: Dark Jedi Elder 
00111010000011000011000110101111010011010110111000    
00101000000010010110000111011000001101110000110101      
11010011000100010110011101001000001000001110110111
11100111100011011001010110100101010110110011101000
01101000110100101101110000011110011010100100110001
10100010100001110000101111101110010010100000000111

Brainplay

Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:27 am

#10

vortexala wrote:

Q - is there any chance of making diseases and poisions so that they do not cause as much damage, were it is at now if you run into a cm your dead plain and simple

A - (justG) There are 2 things we want to fix to counter CM's... inoculations and Area Heals. They are in the works.

Alright folks, this was a question and an answer given during the DevChat on July 15th.

Innoculations and Area Cures are something we've all thought about and discussed a lot in the past. I know a lot of us think any Area Cure should go to us(as the Ranged/Area healing specialists) and that we also want a piece of the action regarding the Innoculations.

So, if the devs ask why we should get it and not Docs, I want to give them a mountain of a response. I can do that on my own, but it would mean a lot more coming from the Combat Medic Community as a whole.

So, with that in mind...

How do YOU see Innoculations being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?) Like a stim but different resources. Infection amplifier in place of the ABEC, ACRDM, and instead of a liquid suspension go with an ASDS. Organic and inorganic should be a chemical or gas and a "plant" type of resource. Reasons- like modern innoculations we use very weak diseases/poisons to make a base that our own systems can contend with and then adjust by making anti-bodies tuned to these hence the infection amplifiers. ACRDM for charges but the ASDS instead of a liquid suspension since this isn't an injury heal but more like a last "buff". Like otherbuff or real life components you have a chemical base either solid or liquid that is used to help dissolve the chemical into your system (some can argue a liquid suspension but there's a difference). Then of course the "plant" resource for a natural "curative" base but really to add the organic part needed. Make these of varying qualities such as innoculation A,B,C's of various powers. If the effectiveness of a poison is better the innoculation doesn't work. If it is weaker it is resisted. Personally I'd like to see it arranged like synthsteak with a certain number of "resists" per each innoculation with the higher the pack the more "resists" per application. I mean you can be innoculated against certain diseases but if you keep getting sprayed in the face over and over not even the most potent innoculation will work.

How do YOU see the Area Cures being implemented?(components? who crafts what? resource requirements? level attained? Effect? Duration?) Just like a regular poison cure but with a ADM instead of a ACRDM. Why would there need to be that big of a change. Combat Medics should craft it. If it uses our components then our 10 points should go into making it. Some of the subcomponents will still have to be craftedby doctors to the fullest power though.

And finally... Why should WE get any of it over Docs? Doctors already have a single target cure just like they have single target heals. Combat Medics have ranged and area cures and therefore it is there domain. Doctors will still be busy enough suppressing fire, curing states, and reviving. This will also put more emphasis on a COMBAT medic being needed for COMBAT healing instead of just our poisons.

Reaperss, Acidictadpole, PsionicHawk: Please feel free to edit yourcurrent posts to answer the questions posed. Sorry for thesudden edit.

Message Edited by vortexala on 07-15-2004 08:26 PM

In this way Doctors will still play a role in poison and disease suppresion but only a passive role since we will be using doctor crafted components. Yes I dont like the idea either but unless extra schematics are implemented the current subcomponents are strictly for making poisons and diseases. My ideas above use some of our subcomponents and hopefully will cause the devs or whoever controls the coding to increase the spawn rate of our resources as there will be a real need for them.Area cures in the hands of a Combat Medic means we'll be sought after for more than just poisoning. This means a Combat Medic can effectively counter another Combat Medic. If enough poison is spammed and blasts past the innoculations uses or late comers didn't get innoculations the area cures would still be able to handle it. Now real tactics would have to be employed to keep combat medics alive or to take out your opponents CM's. If a CM goes down the doctor has to take over the responsibility until revived.

How this will affect the current Combat Medic community is unknown. With the ability to cure poison and disease past out to another class and the ability to innoculate FoTM dabblers will no longer want to be "one tree" wonders anymore and being a Master would once again have a real meaning.

Now before you begin to tear this apart keep in mind (no pun intended) that come the revamp the MIND pool will be healable and equal (in theory) to the Health and Action bars meaning that poison/disease will already be mitigated by buffs and the healing ability. That alone gives it a balance AND takes off alot of the concern for DoT's. Innoculations and area cures take care of the rest of the issues.

*changed the color from yellow back to white. It clashed waaay too much. Oh and Morath360, get off the doctor lobbying firm please. As if they dont have enough going for them already.

Message Edited by Brainplay on 07-16-2004 05:29 AM

Keorythe

h Combat Medic h

/Forcing Counterstrike PvPers to PvE since 2003 \

A Combat Medic Alpha tester who never got the chance to alpha test

Khragon

Fri Jul 16, 2004 6:19 am

#11

This is broken down into 2 areas. Mind poison aside, cause we dont know how the Devs plan to adjust the inability to heal it in the combat revamp yet, so lets just assume all poisons and disease into 1 lump.

Area cures - Doctors since release have always been ahead of CM's in terms of skills avaiable. Doctors buffs, etc all worked in game long before CM's were ever fixed. But when you break down doctors abilities compared to CM's, doctors have a slight lead which was why Devs gave CM's the...all be it lame ability to heal mind. However today CM's are a powerful offensive in raids now, and I dont see either CM's or doctors as overpowered over either.

So if area cures are implemented, who gets them? The original theory was doctors would counter CM's, thats why the doctors got cures and we didnt. The biggest problem is that doctors do not have to train in 169 points like CM's do, and if Doctors and CM's right now are about equal, CM's IMO should get cures because they train the ranged line that doctors do not have to. Doctors should keep their single target cures, but Area cures should go to CM's.

Inoculations - First lets compare market. IMO CM's should get to craft innoculations because we have almost no market for profit. Doctors can make buffs to sell, and can also make more powerful wound packs and stim B's then us, leaving CM's in the dust for any type of sales market. IMO its important that CM's get to create the inoculations to even that out. Craft wise lets not make it so we rely on doctors to craft our BIO's, Chem's and Solids again, make cures reliant on CM only components like the Disp mech, Res and Inf amps.

Mannee

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:02 am

#12

To begin, the poser of the question included in Vortexala’s thread does not appear to have understanding that Combat Medic does not imply certainties during conflict. The badges in SWG are undisclosed and anonymity is rather rather impossible. As a result, my Bloodfin Master Doc / Master Combat Medic character is /examined and ganked on the battlefield and that has been his bane of existence these days. Fact is, without the existence of Doctor curing, the poser of the question is entirely informed. However, there have been most fully implemented and successful counter-measures to Combat Medicines. Thus my doubt the poser of the question does so with knowledge.

I am in agreement with the answer however and welcome counters to poison and disease. As to which profession receives the ability to use them appears rather elementary indeed. I view inoculations as deriving from Doctors, knowledgeable enough and originators of cures from the beginning without offsetting / unbalancing the existing framework and decisions made by the Developers; Doctors will have the ability to cure. The same reasoning for Area Cures except to remain within the existing framework without offsetting or unbalancing decisions made by developers from the beginning; Combat Medics deliver Area medicines.

It is my opinion that Combat Medics should not receive any new capabilities without first acquiring the ability from the appropriate Profession. I decided to master both the Doctor and Combat Medic professions for their innate abilities. Any decision made after the Developers receive the input matters not to me as I will be able to perform the actions nonetheless. However, the decision should be in keeping with appropriate ability or there may very well be other Players requesting certain shared abilities on the ground that Doctors and Combat Medics now do.

I would like to see inoculations in a breathable, area delivery mist. The members of the group stand near one another, within the confines of the maximum area and, upon delivery, receive the message “You breathe in inoculation mist” similar to the Geonosian Cave entrance toxic fume we all eventually run past and receive that infamous message “You breathe toxic fumes” followed by at times “You have been poisoned.”

I feel this way a Doctor can craft the inoculation and a Combat Medic must incorporate it as a component into either a ranged stimpack or an area delivery unit not allowing a combat Medic to use the inoculation directly. Components should be Doctor based and area delivery components consisting of a dispersal mechanism and resilience compound. Janta blood should not be a component usable in place of a crafted Biological Effect Controller. Resource requirements should not be overbearing or difficult, if not impossible, to find either. A natural remedy could consist of a fruit / vegetable, minerals, and metal plus crystalline for the housing. Duration could be like any Doctor Enhancement or Food / Drink not to exceed a reasonable amount of time of thirty minutes to endure at least as long as most PvP battles. This should require Master Combat Medic ability so as not to make it too easy to utilize. The effectiveness of the inoculation should be indicated on screen upon delivery by a percentage of reduction. Thus, however well a Doctor can craft the inoculation and Combat Medic craft it into a ranged or area delivery unit will determine the percentage of resistance.

I would like to see area cures in a ranged or area delivery unit. The poison / disease cure itself should be crafted by Doctors only, period! A Combat Medic should not be able to utilize the cures themselves. However, the Doctor cure poison / disease can be crafted into an area delivery unit that requires only a dispersal mechanism and resilience compound; ranged stimpacks requiring all normal doctor components with Janta Blood exclusions. Combat Medics will then be able to deliver the cure through the ranged stimpack or area delivery unit. The effect can be similar in description to inoculation and be dependant upon how well the components are crafted. There would be no duration of the ranged or area cure and a one time application either is successful or not. The components for crafting are cure poison / disease components.

In addition, I am highly in favor of giving Combat Medics the ability to craft and dispense area mind heal units and mind stimpacks. The Combat Medic should be able to perfom mind healing as easy as a Dcotor can perfom Health and action healing without wounding effects. This gives the Combat Medic an advantage over the Doctor on the battlefield by allowing healing of all HAM pools, including that of the Combat Medic themself. The inability to heal others minds and the Combat Medic not be able to heal themselves must be changed.

If a combat Medic aquires these new medicines and abilities, the Doctor can put the weapon away, go back to the hospital, and allow the combat Medic to take thier rightful place on the battlefield. There would be no need for mind mitigation spice just puting more money in the hands of chefs and Doctors will still make the same components putting no money in their hands with exception to the innoculation.

jkray8472

Fri Jul 16, 2004 9:23 am

#13

Don't have much time right now, so I'll be brief:

I think Doctors should get the innoculations. They should require the Resilience Compound at least (giving us resilience against poisons/diseases--plus the potency of the RC can have a huge impact on the innoculation). Innoculations should be Master Doctor only--it's a very powerful ability.

As far as area cures go...I haven't decided. I'm against Doctors getting anything area or ranged without taking up the Ranged Weapon Support tree. However, I do see the problem in making CMs the "Queen" of the proverbial PvP Chessboard.

Of course...since CMs are the first target anyway....

I do think that area cures should be weaker than the current cures. Maybe not enough to completely heal in one application, but enough to take the edge off.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Combat Medic Archive

Thread: About the DevChat Area Cures and Innoculations : Feedback Time, Folks.