Combat Medic Archive

Sorry for starting a new thread, but I want one posted with no names involved and no name calling.

My vote is that the poison cap is not worth the loot issue, and my understanding is that they are taking the decay penalty off incaps (not absolutely sure though).

Therefore, poison damage should not be capped unless all DoTs by all classes are capped at 1 HAM.

This is my personal opinion, and am open to all discussion,/ votes...you never know, you may change my mind...

yeah this master combat medic who's not in our faction has a harvester around our pa, all this person does is drop in radar range, poison, run out, run back, mind poison again, etc. killed 6 people just doing that including hitting on people just doing missions. u think 600 mind poison damage a tick doesnt need to be nerfed eh? each person was dead in less than 5 seconds. face it, it needs to be nerfed, cause it's nothing but cheap when u dont need to fire 1 shot outta ur gun and can kill multiple people in a short time.

I'm always all up for constructive convrsation and idea thinking...

To me there are a number of issues that this in some form has tried to address:

1. CM as raid-busting PvP soloists. Is this part of what we should be? And if so under what conditions?


2. AOE poisons vs. single cures. Devs have said it's an issues previously and this will address in part.


3. CM looting rights, faction points and PvE issues.


4. The role of DOTs and poisons..


5. Usefullness of diseases..


6. MCM offensives having a range beyond any other class.


7. MCM offensives having an accuracy that is beyond other classes in most realistic PvP situations.

This change touches on all of these issues. It seems to me that this vote is not only a vote on the no incap rule in PvP, but also these other things.

I don't think this proposal is perfect. No change is. But it addresses a number of issues. For those who steadfastly support being a PvP soloist I challenge you to tell me if not this, then how are items 6 and 7 addressed? And so far I support it.

I agree wtih the original poster though...what's good for the goose is for the gander. If we can't incap with poisons, then I want to see it the case on ALL DOTs from other PCs and monsters.

Jacore MD/MCM, Tempest

Personally I view the +1 HAM cap on poisons as both bad and good. It has it's merits as far as looting, and anti-griefing, but it also does make a CM have to work more to get a PvP kill. I find that some CM's are basing their arguement against the cap on ONLY CM skills, not factoring in the multitude of other skills a CM may have. What is wrong with expecting someone to pick up a pistol / rifle / carbine / melee weapon and do some actual fighting to augment their high damage Poison DOT? Even untrained as a marksman someone could effectively pick up a pistol and do the one point of damage required to get a kill. Last time I checked though...all CM's are marksman....so even a CDEF can do that one point. All in all, I vote yes to the +1 HAM cap...just keep a weapon equipped and start in range..you go to combat mode immediately anyhow so you will auto-attack for your one point.

/votes against having 1 point incap

bah i worded that bad, let poisons incap, not like we ever loot anything worthwhile off a corpse anyways.

Well, I think I need to see this in action more to really make a fully educated assessment. At this point, hwoever, I am leaning more towards being in favor of this change. In large part the items Jacore and Benjen bring up seem, to mea t least, to outweight the need to change a particular PvP tactic. I'm just not so sure that the burst-poison tactic was ever really meant to be a viable tactic for CMs.

Besides I would MUCH rather have this than have the effectiveness of our poisons cut by 75%. If anything we can now argue for morr power in poisons if the other changes coming through do not provide enough of an extra boost.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume a CM is able to do one point of dmg outside of CM skills, however it is more a question of timing. That 1pt of damage has to come at the end of DOTs when someone is low. I cannot fire off a poison, shott them, and let the dot finish. I must be there and alive to finish them off no matter how measely.

/vote No

This game isn't about pvp. Pvp is about 10%. In pve our poisons are weak, very weak.

Ok, I have a few questions though... Do we have to do the 1 point of damage at any time, or does it have to be at the end of the fight?

I no longer have any scouting skill since the terrain negotiation. Without maskscent, sometimes a whole lair of direcats or slicehounds will agro on me...and you cannot out-burstrun them. My only hope is to AE poison them, and it will drop them all about the same time while I heal myself. If I have to wait to shoot each one, then they will kill me.

I am also curious about Zarlor's statement. How many people think we need to agree to this poison cap now or take a 75% damage reduction on poison in the future? Is the problem that Dev's think poison is too powerful?

Zalor and Kave, could you please do me a favor? Try and find out why this cap was put into place exactly and are the devs worried that poison is too powerful? This may help a lot. I would love to get on test center and help out, but I would not be able to start another combat medic in time, and I do not look forward to starting another. I run 2 accounts, with my secondary being a smuggler. My secondary got out and obtained a holocube because I want my CM to remain a CM. Much to my dismay, the cube told the smuggler to master combat medic. Haven't tried to pursue an FS slot since 8(

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Pahdbacca wrote:

Ok, I have a few questions though... Do we have to do the 1 point of damage at any time, or does it have to be at the end of the fight?

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I think calling this a 1 hp thing is confusing. It's not so much a 1 hp thing as it is a no-incap thing. It's not that you have to do 1 hp of damage, it's that the poison will continue ticking but never drop someone below 1hp. In that respect you could say that the final bit of damage has to be from something other than a poison.

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I no longer have any scouting skill since the terrain negotiation. Without maskscent, sometimes a whole lair of direcats or slicehounds will agro on me...and you cannot out-burstrun them. My only hope is to AE poison them, and it will drop them all about the same time while I heal myself. If I have to wait to shoot each one, then they will kill me.

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My guess here is that to some extent this is the kind of things the Devs probably don't want to see happening. (At least if all of Holos posts about what content folks are supposed to be able to take on are any indicator.) Soloing a whole pack of Slicehounds is probably considered content above the level of what you should be messing with. If you weren't a CM using that tactic solo, you'd probably drop anyways. I suppose the argument might go that you should just do your best to thread the needle better to keep away from getting agroed on in the first place, but I know what you mean. (Oh and I would reccomend judicious use of warning shot in that situation to try and survive it.) It's not always easy to do and sometimes you just want to take the risk instead of walking ALL the way around a line of agros to find a safe spot to get through. I'm not saying that is what the Devs are saying mind you, just what I think they would be thinking about that kind of situation.

Personally I think you could probably still get away with this tactic, though. TN does you no good here, but Burst Run will help if you just need to get away, If youNEED to kill them, though, just make sure you have a fast pistol in hand and be prepared to tab through your targets. It might take a bit longer and have a bit higher risk factor, but I actually think this situation is a fairly doable one. I think the idea here is that while maybe we are supposed to be able to do that kind of thing, but we shouldn;t be able to do it risk free, and this might jsut give it that little adrenaline shot to make some of these kinds of encounters more interesting.

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I am also curious about Zarlor's statement. How many people think we need to agree to this poison cap now or take a 75% damage reduction on poison in the future? Is the problem that Dev's think poison is too powerful?

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We do see a LOT of threads crying nerf for CMs around here and on the SWG discussion forum. How many have you read here alone by folks worried about poisons getting nerfed? I would not be surprised if this played a factor. BUT, I also think that we have made a lot of very good arguments about why poisons are NOT overpowered when you consider their DPS compared to many other weapons. As such I don't think they wanted to nerf poison strength on us (and if anything some of the other fixes Kave has mentioned on TC will actually boost up the strength some.). If they nerfed strength but left imcap, then I would definitely have to join the ranks of the irate.

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Zalor and Kave, could you please do me a favor? Try and find out why this cap was put into place exactly and are the devs worried that poison is too powerful? This may help a lot.

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That's going to be a tough one to get. Those guys are really busy, but I'll see what I can do as I think it may be needed. (Although, of course, the CM side is really Kave's area, so let's just say I'll support him if he can put forth some kind of request to this effect.) I just wouldn't hold my breath on this one. But I'll see what I can pull together if nothing else. No promises from me, though. unfortunately.

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I would love to get on test center and help out, but I would not be able to start another combat medic in time, and I do not look forward to starting another. I run 2 accounts, with my secondary being a smuggler. My secondary got out and obtained a holocube because I want my CM to remain a CM. Much to my dismay, the cube told the smuggler to master combat medic. Haven't tried to pursue an FS slot since 8(

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*laugh* That's just too funny. I understand about the TC thing. I've had the advantage being a correspondent of being able to use XP terminals to go up in my field (meaning I got Master Medic and Master Do for free) so I'm a large part of the way there for CM. But I really need to build up a better resource base (although all of the Corres on TC are trying to help each other out on that front) before I can really try to push towards getting in CM there. Which is whyI say I'm generally reserving judgement because I haven't seen it used yet either.

I vote no on the no-incap change of course

It is nothing more than a band-aid for other actual problems without actually solving those problems. Which tends to cause new, unforeseen problems

Jacore, to answer your points -

1. Chemical weapons being used to break up a group? nah, makes no sense, right? I feel the problem here is that there is no available method to counter Area poison. Give Docs and Area poison cure and that problem is solved I believe. No class should have the answer to anything thrown at them, and people that don't plan raids to take into account area poison (among other things) are doomed to failure. Basically, Carbineers and CM's are the 'crowd control' of the game. What's wrong with that?

2. As i stated above, give Docs an Area Poison Cure.

3. Looting rights? Sorry, but I feel that damage is damage is damage. Why should DOT damage be any less 'real' than damage from the barrel of a gun or blade of a knife? Sorry, but in PvE any Commando or BH can do far more damage to a mob than any poison in a quicker amount of time. Poison is just a 'safer' way of doing damage.

4.The Role of poison is fear I believe. Chemical weapons are a fearful thing, and rightly so. I think that's why so many cry nerf, because the fear poisons. Also with area poison I believe the role is 'crowd control'.

5. Diseases unfortunately are seen by many as a griefing tool. But any attack that does semi-permanent damage (Commando's flamethrowers and bleeds) will be seen as griefing. This is a simple fact of life. People don't want to be taken out of the fight for extended periods. Nothing can change this fact about disease other than to make it damage rather than wounding. But then it'd be poison

6. I'll take your word for it that these uber-poisons can be made. I've never made them nor looked for ways to make them. And I agree that it should not be that way. But the solution here is not to make them not incap. That doesn't stop them from being applied from too long of a distance so it's not even a solution to that problem at all. What should be done is to set a hard cap on poison range. say 40-45m. Or maybe even slightly less. I have no problem with that at all.

7. Sorry, i may just have bad luck but I know my poisons are resisted about a third of the time. At best only a quarter. I don't consider that accurate. More like horribly innacurate for a primary weapon. Even if the 15% number i've seen mentioned is the actual accuracy, Elite profession masters have accuracy that goes beyond that. So how are we actually more accurate than them? Simply by the reason that we get a message whether we succeed or fail? I really don't think I understand what you're meaning by this question so I'm not sure I can answer it fairly. Clarify for me if you would

If the aim is to make people quit being combat medics, or quit playing the game completely, then please proceed. I am master combat medic and doctor. How do you propose i get that 1 pt of damage? Is it really fair to have a "Toxicologist, medical tactician, chemical warfare expert" have to use a cdef pistol to kill an enemy? When I chose this combo I already forfeited all ability to kill any PvE mobs. Now you're telling me I can't kill players either? I have the perfect solution. Make everyone in the game be pistoleers and make everyone have the same gun, the same amount of health and make every shot do the same amount of damage. Also let no one ever get incapped or die. Imperials and Rebels can hold hands and sing songs in the cantina.