Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Mind Poison + no LOS discuss solution
another possibility for aoe dots wold be to do like tey do in Daoc and make the power of it decrease the power the further it gets from the center...
my only worry is coding with some of these ideas....wondering how hard it would be to addin ramping dot damage or how to determine LOS vs non-LOS damage...
not that its really a concern since we are just brain storming ideas....
as for ramping up damage...i think doc curepacks dont have to ramp up...just like in real life getting a antidote to some one just poisoned will sure them faster, if a doctor is late and cant attend to the patient and the poison has spread, it will naturally be harder to heal....will definately give incentives for people to pvp with doctors...
just like malaria starts with a pretty painless mosquite bite, my first tick of the dot will be mild....but give it s a fewmore ticks....and ur looking at a dead man
With all due respect, I do not buy into the theory of class balance in the sense that X class is there to counter Y class which is in turn countered by Z class and so forth. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe I'm not thinking clearly, but I don't think its that simple.
Giving doctors and AOE cure would be a mistake IMO. I think it would make our AOE poisons nearly worthless. I think you will see the effectivness of these poisons decrease as doctors and other groups figure out how to avoid massive damage, through use of smart tactics (and assuming LOS and TEF's are not exploited). Not many doctors I know routineley carried cure packs before this last patch. I'll betchya they are carrying them more now. I'd rather see the individual cures get much more effective, or scaled so that mastor doctors can cure with one application, for example. This makes more sense to me than AOE cures.
I also don't buy into the Combat Medic as a support class. While support classes are necessary, they are relegated into "second class" status, and that's the last thing I want to see the CM be. Especially with the amount of points we have to spend to get there. The nice thing about SWG is that IMO there don't seem to be any pure support classes. I don't want to be a walking bandaid. I want to be able to kick ass with the rest of the classes.
I'll be hitting master CM tonight, so I have no personal experiences with poison application (from what I read here, it wasn't worth the hassel of making anything less than C class stuff.
I think SOE needs to figure out what they want accomplished with mind damage. The biggest problem now is that we are dealing non-healable damage in massive amounts. No one likes to be on the receiving end of that. I'd rather see mind damage transfered to the HA bars, singly, or even doubly, if they wish, and turn the blue bar more into a mana pool type thing.
My two credits for the day.
Personally I think that the mind thing really needs to be revamped.
DEV is already further nerfing the mind damage from rifleman since the 75% reduction (aka T21 nerf), as there is no other way to counter it. Seems to mewhat they can do is only to continue nerfingmind damage,until to the point where the damage itself is lower than the mind cost of the special move... 
Realcool
Master CM, Corbantis
Elenora wrote:
i personally like the ramping up of damage...
i really think this gives more of a feeling of damage over time..the longer u let it go the worse it will become...
another benefit is that u dont have pump curepacks in doctor lines as much since if u get a dot earlier than later you will be able to cure it better...
but this maybe hard to code...
for a short term solution
i would say 50% damage reduction on just MIND poison not even mind disease just mind poison...keeping no-los applications...
50% damage would put single line dots are rought 150-250 damage a tick...well in line with the BH and rifleman...still a little lower than a BH DPS with eyeshot, but BH needs LOS which makes it more dangerous to us....keep H and A poisons the same...Aoe would be reduced to 100-200 which is more than powerful considering the large Area of effect...
Your forgetting something here.. BH's aren't damage heavy.. they're effect heavy.. matching damage with a medical passive combat class with a BH direct combat class is futile.. and irrellivant. BH's also get body shot in level 4 pistol spec (which I might add makes our disease/poisons look like a joke) ... The underlying issue here in how the mind pool effects in the combat system..
Allowing a healable mind pool is -not- an option.. anything with a stimpack would be invincible.
My suggestion was that perhaps .. not having the mind pool incap a target.. perhaps .. take +50% damage.. and +50% ham costs.. or some such.. a notable crippling effect so that riflemen would still be ok .. but not too crippling as to have no defence against it.
Leave it the way it is, none of those options are really acceptable.
The dev's have had plenty of time to change it to be effected by the 75% damage reduction. They fixed the DoT TEF exploit, they could have done both at the same time. This is really a pvp only attack. It haslittle point in PvE , the damage you do compared to any other attack you could use is insignificant. Unless you want to wipe out a nest of gorgs with an AoE C. 300 pointsevery 10 s is nothing in PvE.
If you're going to buff up doc's so they can cure poison in one shot then you better buff up medic so they can heal bleed in one shot.
If you're going to compare this MMORPG with any other then you might as well make DoT do damage when first applied. I can't think of any other game that does this differently.
Ok, I'll give you one nerf. The Duration shouldn't be as long. 15 minutes of poison is a bit absurd.
- Add equipment increasing chance to resist DoT
- Add ability to increase chance to resist DoT
Ok I do like this idea. Perhaps we should get a innate bonus to resist due to our knowledge of poisons and diseases. Same with doctor. It would give the doctor a chance to not go incap before he can stop poison on a his teammates.
Here is the list (incomplete I am sure) of possible solutions.
If I missed some - please post it here, and let's discuss.
- Require LOS on application
- Have DoT start slow and increase as time goes up, for example first tick doing 40%, then 60%, then 80% then 100% of damage
- Reduce DoT damage
- Reduce DoT damage if poison was applied without LOS
- Reduce DoT damage if target is not in LOS
- Remove mind DoT
- Add immunity timer
- Add equipment increasing chance to resist DoT
- Add ability to increase chance to resist DoT
- Rework the way mind works: allow mind heals
- Rework the way mind works: add healing bar and allow mind heals from new bar
- Rework the way mind works: remove mind damage all-together
- Reduce DoT damage if poison was applied without LOS
I like this one, I think it's fare and still leaves room for strategies.
- Have DoT start slow and increase as time goes up, for example first tick doing 40%, then 60%, then 80% then 100% of damage
In my opinion it will take too much time to kill the target, but not remove no-LOS complaint - CM will just have to hide longer.
- Require LOS on application
- Reduce DoT damage
- Reduce DoT damage if target is not in LOS
- Remove mind DoT
- Add immunity timer
- Add equipment increasing chance to resist DoT
- Add ability to increase chance to resist DoT
Those will nerf CMs too hard in my opinion.
- Rework the way mind works: allow mind heals
- Rework the way mind works: add healing bar and allow mind heals from new bar
- Rework the way mind works: remove mind damage all-together
Those require a big change from developers and also can nerf other classes.
i personally like the ramping up of damage...
i really think this gives more of a feeling of damage over time..the longer u let it go the worse it will become...
another benefit is that u dont have pump curepacks in doctor lines as much since if u get a dot earlier than later you will be able to cure it better...
but this maybe hard to code...
for a short term solution
i would say 50% damage reduction on just MIND poison not even mind disease just mind poison...keeping no-los applications...
50% damage would put single line dots are rought 150-250 damage a tick...well in line with the BH and rifleman...still a little lower than a BH DPS with eyeshot, but BH needs LOS which makes it more dangerous to us....keep H and A poisons the same...Aoe would be reduced to 100-200 which is more than powerful considering the large Area of effect...
oh and i think ramping would augment the concept that we are a combat support class and not a main damage dealer which i still dont think we should be...we should make it easier for our grp to kill people not actually go and kill people unless they decide to let poisons run for a while untreated
- make Doc poison cures = CM poison apps
I think this is a valid point on LOS:
everybody using a ranged weapon can shoot directly through environment ie. hills, bushes rocks and what not (tiny out of LOS on trees) fix this so ranged weapons cant shoot through the ground and we can start talking about fixing us throwing through walls.
Reducing DoT damage will make it a griefing tool, nothing more. a nice way to get 3 incaps on people even when they get you first.
rework the way mind works: mind heals, already in game, rare yes -no problem, should be.
New healing bar? haha...
remove mind damage alltogether... are you serious?
remove mind DoT? uhm... why ? so we can go back to sucking?
reduce damage when applied without LOS... why? dident they sniff the poison?
adding some resistance might be good, this way CMs would have to experiment more on potency and less on effectiveness, sadly this would result in low damage DoTs hitting and again poisons are just cause for griefing.
Fix the broken stuff, dont nerf what was just fixed 
Make doctor cures on par with CM cures and make AOE doctor cures. If you do that people cant bitch about me poisoning you. I'll point you to the nearest doctor you forgot to bring and give you a wave. Doctors were setup to counter CMs. just raise the effectiveness of their cure packs and its all set. if they nerf the poison dmg even further then it wont be useful in pvm.
I like the idea of ramping up damage provided doc poison cures ramp as well.... It goes back to the whole counter idea. docs counter cms therefore their effectiveness at dealing and healing damage must be equal. as simple as that.
if you're going to re-work mind damage, please rework rifleman and BH's along with us since their damage potential is just as high and can be just bought for 15-30k with no time required to make anything.
keep in mind that crafting these packs is NOT difficult, therefore re-working of mind damage must take into account the many many many many many hours of gameplay required to make a single one and prayers that you can even find the resources you need.
as to LOS... your idea is perfect michael. make non-los less functional than los poison. simple, effective, realistic. gas clouds seeping trhough whindows and such would bee less effective than hiting someone with the pack itself. or just make the resist rate higher. that freaking simple.
