Cities And Housing Archive
Thread: EVERYINE WANTS THERE OWN CITY AND BLAMES LACK OF GROWTH ON OLD CITIES TOUGH!
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mastertruth
Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:28 pm
#1
stop whining that old cities are using retired players to keep them alive.
even if the devs purged them as planned nothing would change, not only is my city one of the first,
but we are well over the 55 people limit with active players houses.
a few of the other mayors on other sever approached me and other mayors along time ago about lot swapping, to keep our numbers up. so there are many ways to keep a city above 55.
sorry unless you want a million little cities, like the thousands of 5 man guilds, just join a city, the benifiets are far better than starting one yourself.
But hey i'm an architec too and i sell a prepackage cities for a couple mil and i sell one about one a week.
just trying to let you know that the old mayors and players aren't going to give up there shuttleports!
Message Edited by mastertruth on 03-14-2005 03:39 PM
Poldano
Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:15 pm
#3
I have to agree with mastertruth, he's the master of truth on this issue. 
(or should that be "groan").
(or should that be "groan").I'm in a city that is probably alive because of vestigial residents, and by "alive" I mean "in possession of a shuttleport". Yet I'm selling many more city structures since Politician became "free". What's the real point of starting over instead of joining an existing city? I suspect it is the same reason that makes people want to have their own player association instead of joining an existing one. But a player association is a far different entity from a city.
Saego, Wanderhome
Akkori
Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:17 pm
#4
If you're city is worth it, people will want to live there, and you wont need ghosts to keep it alive.
--Qilue-UCW--
Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:16 pm
#5
mastertruth wrote:
a few of the other mayors on other sever approached me and other mayors along time ago about lot swapping, to keep our numbers up. so there are many ways to keep a city above 55.
Way to subvert the system to keep your dead city alive!! Yay!
/scarcasm off
mastertruth
Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:18 am
#6
sorry my tone was less than nice, but I'm sick and tired of all the complaining.
My point was simply a server wipe will not get all the hundreds of little pop-corn-fart cities on the map.
one or two per planet might move up a level, but there will still be lots of little towns crying fowl.
If you want to be part of a city join one, make it thrive, don't stand outside coro spacport and try to bribe players with speeders, houses and money to join a town that has no chance!
Halcyon was one of the first on the flurry server and just keeps growing, your welcome if your reb or neautral, we have 3 guilds there now and will have more.
GadonThek
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:12 am
#7
Wow, I really admire players like you, using borderline-exploits to keep a city alive that sounds very much as if it should have died a death a long time ago.
Face it, unless they actually institute a way for Politicians running for Mayors in player cities to do something unique and new, so that changing Mayor has a point, there are always going to be startup cities. And there are always going to be VALID complaints about morons like yourself who will do everything they can to keep their city alive for the sake of a shuttleport for the ten or so active residents you have left.
Face it, unless they actually institute a way for Politicians running for Mayors in player cities to do something unique and new, so that changing Mayor has a point, there are always going to be startup cities. And there are always going to be VALID complaints about morons like yourself who will do everything they can to keep their city alive for the sake of a shuttleport for the ten or so active residents you have left.
--Qilue-UCW--
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:36 am
#8
mastertruth wrote:
sorry my tone was less than nice, but I'm sick and tired of all the complaining.
People will complain no matter what anyone says.. and posts like this will not stop the complaining just add fule to the fire.
My point was simply a server wipe will not get all the hundreds of little pop-corn-fart cities on the map. one or two per planet might move up a level, but there will still be lots of little towns crying fowl.
I believe your correct here.. It may get rid of some but not all.
If you want to be part of a city join one, make it thrive, don't stand outside coro spacport and try to bribe players with speeders, houses and money to join a town that has no chance!
The problem with this is alot of cities require Membership inin a PA. If there is no PA membership requirment, then its Faction alligned, or out in the middle of nowhere and there is NO reason at all to join anyhow.
Poldano
Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:44 pm
#9
I'm sure your insult wasn't directed at me, GadonThek, but since I agree with mastertruth's points, I feel free to include myself in its range, and will respond:
I appreciate being insulted from time to time. It helps take the unwarranted peaks off my well-deserved arrogance.
Trading citizenscould be consideredborderline exploit, but no more so than lot trading using toons specifically created for the purpose. As a matter of fact, if I did lot trade, I would probably go looking for a needy city to make my toon a resident of. I don't lot trade because I have a high sense of responsibility to my trading partner, and feel that I don't have the time to do it right.
I will elaborate on one of my previous points, and flame a bit. The elaboration is that a lot of players want a city for the same purpose they want a player association, i.e., to be with people of similar interests and beliefs, and feel a sense of belonging and camaraderiie (sp?). That is not something one is likely to find in a city, for the most part. Cities have to have primarily an economic basis to thrive, because they cost too much to operate for any other reason, except for well-healed dilettantes. Cities need to be too variegated to fit within the framework of most guilds.
Now comes the flame. The way city mechanics are set up, there is very little economic reason for their existence. They provide little material advantage to players who live in them, apart from the relatively subtle advantages provided by city specialization (no surprise the Research Center is one of the most common specializations). My city is not located in the "middle of nowhere", unless nowhere is anywhere not within a 30-second swoop ride of Coronet starport. Leaving it to ride to Cnet, it is difficult to avoid hitting houses as they renderin your face.It was once a thriving metropolis, heavily populated with some leading crafters and merchants. What happened was (1) the merchant "nerf", (2) the end of hologrinding, (3) the introduction of WoW and EQ2. We experienced the loss of the founding mayor and his successor within 3 months. In spite of active recruitment efforts, nobody is much interested in moving there. While explicitly founded and publicized as a merchant and craftingcity, posts in the galaxy forum read "wouldn't it be nice to have a merchant and crafting city", and ask, "whatever happened to XXX, it used to be such a great place". So, I don't use my milita zoning rights much at all. Instead, I sell city halls, andeven once gotthe odd request to see if I have any "lying around" that I could give to a deserving player association that wanted its own city.
Now, with the pending onset of galaxy-wide vendor search, I see an even greater decline in store for player cities. Their reason for existence will be, even more, the same as for player associations.
Saego, Wanderhome
Puertoriqueno
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:40 pm
#10
mastertruth wrote:
stop whining that old cities are using retired players to keep them alive.
even if the devs purged them as planned nothing would change, not only is my city one of the first,
but we are well over the 55 people limit with active players houses.
a few of the other mayors on other sever approached me and other mayors along time ago about lot swapping, to keep our numbers up. so there are many ways to keep a city above 55.
sorry unless you want a million little cities, like the thousands of 5 man guilds, just join a city, the benifiets are far better than starting one yourself.
But hey i'm an architec too and i sell a prepackage cities for a couple mil and i sell one about one a week.
just trying to let you know that the old mayors and players aren't going to give up there shuttleports!
Message Edited by mastertruth on 03-14-2005 03:39 PM
Although I dont agree with the initial tone, I agree with the post. I have said many times that people need to open thier cities to multiple factions and guilds so that we can consolidate. Otherwise, the cap has to be raised. We have a rather large guild city without the city rating, and we are doing fine....though we dont have a shuttleport and such, Mos Espa is close. Not a problem really if we never become a city.
Kinshi
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:41 am
#11
Well starting your own lil city is bout the only option you have because the old time Mayors will blow a gasket at the prospect of someone challenging them for their city.
Not to mention you have to contend with existing Mayors stacking the deck in their city with cross server citizen swaps, making it nearly impossible to get rid of them. They are your biggest obstacle to experiencing the Politician Profession.
Is it any wonder there are many who want to live in NPC cities and avoid the BS that goes along w/ player cities?
Not to mention you have to contend with existing Mayors stacking the deck in their city with cross server citizen swaps, making it nearly impossible to get rid of them. They are your biggest obstacle to experiencing the Politician Profession.
Is it any wonder there are many who want to live in NPC cities and avoid the BS that goes along w/ player cities?
Kinshi
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:54 am
#12
I hae meant to comment on the 'border line' exploits as well
A major aspect I have noticed is that PC citys become immune from every having to change themselves by virtue of using the cross server citizen swaps. They become like a fly frozen in amber, unchanging, unevolving, un-living. No matter how crappy the mayor is, they can keep the city looking spiffy by sucking in cross server swaps.
The becomes no motivation at a certain point to attract new people as long as a cpl of people keep feeding credits to the city and paying the maintenance on the zombie houses. in r/l if people leave a city, the tax base goes down, services get turned off. This doesnt happen in SWG because of all the zombie citizens.
In fact it encourages Mayors to be complacent and unmotivated, and makes a large % of player cities seem more like a Retirement Home that a living city.
In all honesty it scares me to contemplate how few, real players there may actually be left on a given server.
A major aspect I have noticed is that PC citys become immune from every having to change themselves by virtue of using the cross server citizen swaps. They become like a fly frozen in amber, unchanging, unevolving, un-living. No matter how crappy the mayor is, they can keep the city looking spiffy by sucking in cross server swaps.
The becomes no motivation at a certain point to attract new people as long as a cpl of people keep feeding credits to the city and paying the maintenance on the zombie houses. in r/l if people leave a city, the tax base goes down, services get turned off. This doesnt happen in SWG because of all the zombie citizens.
In fact it encourages Mayors to be complacent and unmotivated, and makes a large % of player cities seem more like a Retirement Home that a living city.
In all honesty it scares me to contemplate how few, real players there may actually be left on a given server.
KaiRan
Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:33 am
#13
After a quick glance at some of the old and dead cities on my server, the number of deleted characters and multiple-resident buildings that artifically bolster a city's population is outrageous. Even simply comparing the number of structures versus the listed population holds strong evedence for this.
It seemsthe CSR's dont know about this particular exploit (or deny it is one), yet I can find it on these veryboards. (no, I wont tell you how it is done, just trust me, it is possible)
Several cities on my server see maybe 1/3 to 1/4 actual population from the registry. Yet the CSR's deny this as a deliberate possiblity... without ever even actually investigating the matter.
I have no quams with "Old cities", the legacy they represent is part of the charm of each particular server. But when you visit a city that has stood as a Metropolis for months and never found another soul in it when visited? SOE needs to get on the ball and keep up so the rest of us can participate in game content.
While I do see many which would retain their "metropolis" standing even if purged, the fact of the matter is, there are an equal amount that wouldnt even be cities were a purge to take place. Regardless if a purge of retired and doubled names would actually impact the available city slots, do not be so bold as to support an exploit, particularly if you are using it yourself. To do so invites not only the anger of the playerbase to direct itself at you, but also the scrutiny of the CSRs... while they may not be able to prove you've bolstered your population deliberaty, they certianly know now that it is artifically high.
Personally, if you havent bugged it as a Mayor, I'd hope action would be taken, but I know that it wont.
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