Chef Archive

1. You should unequip then equip your weapon after using these products.


2. The damage reduction seems to be determined directly by the level of your defense compared to the level of your opponents accuracy.


3. Diminishing returns plays a large role in an already highly defensive template.


4. An overwhelming amount of the tests show that on fully templated toons, there is approximately at least a6% increased miss count but rarely damage reduction.

Now to address the issue of selling something that may be broken.

I would like to preface this with I believe that these foods are not broken, but working as intended. I recommend that the consumer weigh the advantages gained from using this product with the cost of the product and the stomach space used by the product. Simply put, if it ain't doing what you want, then fill the stomach with something else.

Vegeparsine is by far my biggest seller.This holds true for many of the Chefs on all servers. What would happen if one of the Chefs decided it was broken and he is not going to carry it anymore?

1. The customers that swear by it are going to find another Chef that stocks it.


2. A lot of customers swear by these products.


3. He is then going to purchase the other foods that he uses from that Chef as a matter of convenience.

I personally do very little testing of foods. My test consists of making it, putting it on the vendors, seeing if it sells. The people that use foods are not stupid people. This fact alone makes my test more accurate than anyone that got their friend to duel them. My test consists of 10's to 100's of people using the product day in and day out, not my friend shooting me 100 times with his scatter pistol.

I hope this clears up the Vegeparsine/Thundercloud issue. Please, if you find any item not giving the desired effect, do not purchase those items. By doing this you will effectively inform your local Chef that an item does not work sufficiently enough to warrant your attention. This will free up resources that the Chef can use to make foods that do make a difference.

A+

Good post Jadeew. I know that we sparred in the other thread but I mean this sincerely. The more I think about it the more I understand your point of view with your large sales volume speaking for itself. It does make me nervous to be the lone crazy man yelling about something not being right when apparently most everyone else thinks it ok but that's what my direct tests show.

In any case, I don't necessarily want to pollute your thread with more of my posting about it being broken. I've made enough other threads already to do that in! I did want add one comment and one question, though.

"3. Diminishing returns plays a large role in an already highly defensive template."

It's my understanding, as backed by the clickies I keep quoting in my other threads, that the function governing the damage mitigation caused by defense is linear. That is to say, there is no diminishing return for defense/accuracy. The exception to this is the fact the damage effects of defense mitigation can never cause a weapons damage to go below (or above) the max and min of the weapon.

"4. An overwhelming amount of the tests show that on fully templated toons, there is approximately at least a 6% increased miss count but rarely damage reduction."

I was wondering where you got the 6% miss chance increase. I'd be quite interested in data on the matter of miss chances.

Thanks.

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jadeew wrote:

We get at least a post a day here "I tested it and Vegeparsine/Thundercloud does not work" I am here to state the facts about these products as well as to clear up the reasoning behind stocking these items regardless of their effectiveness. I have never received an email or tell stating that these foods do not work from any of my customers. I do however get several emails and tells the second I run out.

I read posts here every day and post here frequently. I have read the vast majority of the "test" posts on these products.

1. You should unequip then equip your weapon after using these products.


2. The damage reduction seems to be determined directly by the level of your defense compared to the level of your opponents accuracy.


3. Diminishing returns plays a large role in an already highly defensive template.


4. An overwhelming amount of the tests show that on fully templated toons, there is approximately at least a6% increased miss count but rarely damage reduction.

Now to address the issue of selling something that may be broken.

I would like to preface this with I believe that these foods are not broken, but working as intended. I recommend that the consumer weigh the advantages gained from using this product with the cost of the product and the stomach space used by the product. Simply put, if it ain't doing what you want, then fill the stomach with something else.

Vegeparsine is by far my biggest seller.This holds true for many of the Chefs on all servers. What would happen if one of the Chefs decided it was broken and he is not going to carry it anymore?

1. The customers that swear by it are going to find another Chef that stocks it.


2. A lot of customers swear by these products.


3. He is then going to purchase the other foods that he uses from that Chef as a matter of convenience.

I personally do very little testing of foods. My test consists of making it, putting it on the vendors, seeing if it sells. The people that use foods are not stupid people. This fact alone makes my test more accurate than anyone that got their friend to duel them. My test consists of 10's to 100's of people using the product day in and day out, not my friend shooting me 100 times with his scatter pistol.

I hope this clears up the Vegeparsine/Thundercloud issue. Please, if you find any item not giving the desired effect, do not purchase those items. By doing this you will effectively inform your local Chef that an item does not work sufficiently enough to warrant your attention. This will free up resources that the Chef can use to make foods that do make a difference.

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/cheer !

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Barafu wrote:
Good post Jadeew. I know that we sparred in the other thread but I mean this sincerely. The more I think about it the more I understand your point of view with your large sales volume speaking for itself. It does make me nervous to be the lone crazy man yelling about something not being right when apparently most everyone else thinks it ok but that's what my direct tests show.

In any case, I don't necessarily want to pollute your thread with more of my posting about it being broken. I've made enough other threads already to do that in! I did want add one comment and one question, though.

"3. Diminishing returns plays a large role in an already highly defensive template."

It's my understanding, as backed by the clickies I keep quoting in my other threads, that the function governing the damage mitigation caused by defense is linear. That is to say, there is no diminishing return for defense/accuracy. The exception to this is the fact the damage effects of defense mitigation can never cause a weapons damage to go below (or above) the max and min of the weapon.

"4. An overwhelming amount of the tests show that on fully templated toons, there is approximately at least a 6% increased miss count but rarely damage reduction."

I was wondering where you got the 6% miss chance increase. I'd be quite interested in data on the matter of miss chances.

Thanks.

---

I personally have dealt directly with the effect of diminishing returns regarding melee defense. I recently changed my Chef to Aelea. Before that, Sour was my Chef. He was also Padawan, but solely for the purpose of having the ability to create Aelea on the same account. I also have another account that has my full templated Jedi.

I decided I wanted to make a Force Sensitive Bounty Hunter with some Defender. Bounty Hunter has a skill called duelist stance. Increased melee defense. With no Defender in my template, this gem of a special would decrease damage by over 100 points (this is from memory of course. If it was not 100 points it was very near it) After getting increased Jedi defense and Melee defense from 3-0-0-0 Defender, duelist stance only decreased my damage by 9 points. So, as you reach that magical/mystical number that no one knows what it is, each point of defense means less and less to over-all damage reduction, and in many situations with full template combat toons, there is not any damage reduction at all. I am guessing that there may actually be some damage reduction, but probably is in the tenths or hundreths of a point which does not register visually.

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jadeew wrote:

I personally have dealt directly with the effect of diminishing returns regarding melee defense. I recently changed my Chef to Aelea. Before that, Sour was my Chef. He was also Padawan, but solely for the purpose of having the ability to create Aelea on the same account. I also have another account that has my full templated Jedi.

I decided I wanted to make a Force Sensitive Bounty Hunter with some Defender. Bounty Hunter has a skill called duelist stance. Increased melee defense. With no Defender in my template, this gem of a special would decrease damage by over 100 points (this is from memory of course. If it was not 100 points it was very near it) After getting increased Jedi defense and Melee defense from 3-0-0-0 Defender, duelist stance only decreased my damage by 9 points. So, as you reach that magical/mystical number that no one knows what it is, each point of defense means less and less to over-all damage reduction, and in many situations with full template combat toons, there is not any damage reduction at all. I am guessing that there may actually be some damage reduction, but probably is in the tenths or hundreths of a point which does not register visually.

As for the 6%. That is the impression from the many tests that I have seen people do with these two foods. You can look back in the history of posts here since the CU and find dozens and dozens of tests done. We know for a fact that the accuracy vs defense definitely affects the chance to miss as well as accuracy to defense also effects damage dealt. What is happening is that we are getting into the range of accuracy and defense where diminishing returns is playing a very large role.

My personal take on the foods in practical use is that I carry both of these foods on my combat toons, but rarely use them. I prefer to use Pikatta Pie or Vayerbok and usually save the filling for Synthsteak.

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We have different experiences with accuracy/defense. Maybe there is some weird client/server lag thing that does cause it to be variable. When in doubt always blame it on lag!

Here are the threads I found in the chefs forums about "accuracy test" or "defense test" for the past 90 days. This doesn't include ones I've already posted in. I didn't see much about it's effect on the hit chance. There are certainly contradictory reports about vegeparsine working/not working which is only more confusing. I certainly understand why you chefs are tired of the issue!

I don't have the heart to clickify them.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=61608
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=57692&query.id=0#M57692
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=57385
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=58896&query.id=0#M58896

Message Edited by Barafu on 08-31-2005 02:31 PM