Chef Archive
Thread: FIX CHEF!!! (Here's how)
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Ezran
Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:18 pm
#1
Alright, I think I've cooled down a bit. However, I still stand behind my previous post. These 4 simple things WILL make chef a much better profession. And I still intend to post about every 2 hours until I get some kind of response, but only here.
Let me first say, these are not fanatical ideas. They are thought out, and specifically chosen. They are simple to implement, and do fix a great deal of issues our profession have brought up. They are things I've seen done before.
First, I'll address 1) and 2), since they are related.
1)Chef schematics are wrong. I can count on one hand how many chef schematics don't list 33%flavor 33%PE 33%OQ for every attribute. When crafting these schematics, the max experimental values are always different. Unless there is some complex crafting system I am unable to comprehend, that is wrong. It is therefore a BUG, not a balance issue, and should be squashed.
2)From my research (see previous post, or SWGCraft.com) There are attributes that affect food that don't normally exist in the ingredients. Flavor and Texture Experimental Value appears to be affected by Unit Toughness and Shock Resistance, both of which are absent in all flora food. Flavor, on the other hand seems to have little or no affect on experimentation. If the schematics were chenged so that they are only based on Decay Resistance, Flavor, Potential Energy, Overall quality, then it would be possible to experiment flavor and texture to it's maximum possible value, and therefore to increase durations, while decreasing filling.
This would also benefit balance, as many of the complaints have centred around the duration of food. This fix would increase the duration for those chefs that use the correct ingredients. It would also decrease to potential filling factor for food, and allow a player to eat/drink more. (Discussed in more detail in my next post)
Note: This would not overbalance food, as the perfect food (100% Flavor/Texture, 100% Nutrion, 100% Quantity) is not possible with only 10 experimentation points. However, it would add a tradeoff to chefs. A "Less filling, Stronger buff, More uses" tradeoff. I've heard doctors discuss these kind of trade offs all of the time.
Until Next time,
Ezran Shisme
Master Chef, Valcyn, Naboo
Let me first say, these are not fanatical ideas. They are thought out, and specifically chosen. They are simple to implement, and do fix a great deal of issues our profession have brought up. They are things I've seen done before.
First, I'll address 1) and 2), since they are related.
1)Chef schematics are wrong. I can count on one hand how many chef schematics don't list 33%flavor 33%PE 33%OQ for every attribute. When crafting these schematics, the max experimental values are always different. Unless there is some complex crafting system I am unable to comprehend, that is wrong. It is therefore a BUG, not a balance issue, and should be squashed.
2)From my research (see previous post, or SWGCraft.com) There are attributes that affect food that don't normally exist in the ingredients. Flavor and Texture Experimental Value appears to be affected by Unit Toughness and Shock Resistance, both of which are absent in all flora food. Flavor, on the other hand seems to have little or no affect on experimentation. If the schematics were chenged so that they are only based on Decay Resistance, Flavor, Potential Energy, Overall quality, then it would be possible to experiment flavor and texture to it's maximum possible value, and therefore to increase durations, while decreasing filling.
This would also benefit balance, as many of the complaints have centred around the duration of food. This fix would increase the duration for those chefs that use the correct ingredients. It would also decrease to potential filling factor for food, and allow a player to eat/drink more. (Discussed in more detail in my next post)
Note: This would not overbalance food, as the perfect food (100% Flavor/Texture, 100% Nutrion, 100% Quantity) is not possible with only 10 experimentation points. However, it would add a tradeoff to chefs. A "Less filling, Stronger buff, More uses" tradeoff. I've heard doctors discuss these kind of trade offs all of the time.
Until Next time,
Ezran Shisme
Master Chef, Valcyn, Naboo
Caithleen
Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:20 pm
#2
after that, chef is still broken.
tell me .. which schematic will boost willpower by 1000 and last for 2 hours ?
Ezran
Thu Sep 25, 2003 6:51 pm
#3
Oops. Well, I guess 2 in a row will have to do.
3) Increase the quantity of non-alcoholic food. I can put Aludium au96 into anything that requires alcohol and easily get over 8 uses. However, my veghash has rarely more then 6-7, that's when I devote most of the experimentation points to quantity. Vercupti, I get rarely get more than 5.
If quantity was increased, and stack sizes were bigger, it would be much easier to sell food. Novices rarely get more than one use out of a stack, which is utterly useless to anyone but themselves. Leave the single stacks to smugglers.
Also with larger stacks, less experimentation points need to be devoted to quantity. If I could get 5 uses at 15% like I do with BoH, I would devote more experimentation to the effectiveness and duration of the buff, thus making it geniunely better. However 2-3 uses for unexperimented veghash are utterly useless, so I a forced to give up experimentation points to quantity.
If another chef just wants as many uses as possible, they can, and get 10-12 uses per stack, but it will be more filling, have shorter duration, and less effective. Hence trade offs. Life is all about trade offs, and good professions are the same.
This also ties in with the next post, which will be about eating more food, and the bulk of the chef fix.
3) Increase the quantity of non-alcoholic food. I can put Aludium au96 into anything that requires alcohol and easily get over 8 uses. However, my veghash has rarely more then 6-7, that's when I devote most of the experimentation points to quantity. Vercupti, I get rarely get more than 5.
If quantity was increased, and stack sizes were bigger, it would be much easier to sell food. Novices rarely get more than one use out of a stack, which is utterly useless to anyone but themselves. Leave the single stacks to smugglers.
Also with larger stacks, less experimentation points need to be devoted to quantity. If I could get 5 uses at 15% like I do with BoH, I would devote more experimentation to the effectiveness and duration of the buff, thus making it geniunely better. However 2-3 uses for unexperimented veghash are utterly useless, so I a forced to give up experimentation points to quantity.
If another chef just wants as many uses as possible, they can, and get 10-12 uses per stack, but it will be more filling, have shorter duration, and less effective. Hence trade offs. Life is all about trade offs, and good professions are the same.
This also ties in with the next post, which will be about eating more food, and the bulk of the chef fix.
Ezran
Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:08 pm
#4
Last but most certainly not least. In fact, the one that makes chefs a viable and competative profession.
4) 75% filling/Eat 150% the amount of food before before full. This number has changed slightly because I felt it made chef a little too powerful (good figure). I can currently drink 1 BoH before I get full. I know this has a lot to do with the fact that I can't experiment the Exp. flavor. If that were fixed (See 2)), then I assumed I could drink 2-3. 3 BoH give +1200 to pool drain, which is equivalent to doctors with respect to effectiveness. Now increase that by 150% that. You have the capacity to get +1800 to secondary stats, nearly invincible for a short period of time. Boost for any profession.
However, this is not only with BoH, the best drink in the game. This will also boost the base chef food to be much more effective, and much more useful.
Now the fun part. Not only could you drink 1 type of drink, and boost some of your stats a bunch, you could drink 4-6 different drinks, and boost all your stats to a lesser extent. Balance what goes up with what goes down. Choose the right food/drink, so that you get a complete boost. This ties in with 3) as with larger stacks you can create more complex combinations. Chef now becomes like every other crafting profession in that they can recommend combinations of food/drink that will produce desired effects.
More fun for the people using the food since they get to make freaky combos to get the best possible stats catered to them. More fun for chef, because all of the recipes could now be used, food/drink in the right combinations, giving just the right buffs.
One could imagine some day creating food plates (something like fireworks displays) where the collection of food is already set out (this has been proposed before), but I don't want that, I only want simple things that can be done without waiting for my children to try them.
So, there you have it. 4 simple things that will boost our spirits, and keep chefs from going insane.
But I'm not done yet .....
4) 75% filling/Eat 150% the amount of food before before full. This number has changed slightly because I felt it made chef a little too powerful (good figure). I can currently drink 1 BoH before I get full. I know this has a lot to do with the fact that I can't experiment the Exp. flavor. If that were fixed (See 2)), then I assumed I could drink 2-3. 3 BoH give +1200 to pool drain, which is equivalent to doctors with respect to effectiveness. Now increase that by 150% that. You have the capacity to get +1800 to secondary stats, nearly invincible for a short period of time. Boost for any profession.
However, this is not only with BoH, the best drink in the game. This will also boost the base chef food to be much more effective, and much more useful.
Now the fun part. Not only could you drink 1 type of drink, and boost some of your stats a bunch, you could drink 4-6 different drinks, and boost all your stats to a lesser extent. Balance what goes up with what goes down. Choose the right food/drink, so that you get a complete boost. This ties in with 3) as with larger stacks you can create more complex combinations. Chef now becomes like every other crafting profession in that they can recommend combinations of food/drink that will produce desired effects.
More fun for the people using the food since they get to make freaky combos to get the best possible stats catered to them. More fun for chef, because all of the recipes could now be used, food/drink in the right combinations, giving just the right buffs.
One could imagine some day creating food plates (something like fireworks displays) where the collection of food is already set out (this has been proposed before), but I don't want that, I only want simple things that can be done without waiting for my children to try them.
So, there you have it. 4 simple things that will boost our spirits, and keep chefs from going insane.
But I'm not done yet .....
ReD5FlAtLaNd
Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:56 pm
#5
I like the idea of making our foods/drinks 150% better. That will definatly help us out in comparison to Doctors, Smugglers, Entertainers. I also think that lowering of the negative effects would be good too.
And everything else, sounds great! Maybe if more people post in this thread and various other balance realted posts, maybe the Devs will finally get in their skulls that WE NEED TO BE FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ezran
Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:02 pm
#6
Why did I choose these things. There were 2 very important reasons.
1) They are easy to implement, and have been done on many other profession
2) They will make a noticeable, positive impact to my profession
I'm not trying to overpower my profession. I'm not trying compete with other professions (like doctors). However, I've seen how every profession has it's place in the game, and could see a void that would need filling if those professions were gone. All of them save Chef.
If chefs were gone, a small rebalance to artisan food would fill the gap.
Doctors give strong health/action buffs. Dancers/Musicians give strong mind buffs. Artisans (Specifically Homemakers) make food that is portable, and gives you a boost when you need it. There are more than enough recipes, so that every stat can be boosted.
So devs, the options are: Fix chef, or drop chef. It's that simple. I'd be willing to go through the trouble of elveling a new elite profession or two. In fact, I kind of enjoyed that part. I don't like living with the torment of "It will be better, just wait and see" And getting 6 post updates with no mention of the word chef.
The only chef update that I remember seeing included the word "Really" as if our profession was some kind of joke, and fixing it was doing us a favor.
I better stop now before I start ranting
More next week....
1) They are easy to implement, and have been done on many other profession
2) They will make a noticeable, positive impact to my profession
I'm not trying to overpower my profession. I'm not trying compete with other professions (like doctors). However, I've seen how every profession has it's place in the game, and could see a void that would need filling if those professions were gone. All of them save Chef.
If chefs were gone, a small rebalance to artisan food would fill the gap.
Doctors give strong health/action buffs. Dancers/Musicians give strong mind buffs. Artisans (Specifically Homemakers) make food that is portable, and gives you a boost when you need it. There are more than enough recipes, so that every stat can be boosted.
So devs, the options are: Fix chef, or drop chef. It's that simple. I'd be willing to go through the trouble of elveling a new elite profession or two. In fact, I kind of enjoyed that part. I don't like living with the torment of "It will be better, just wait and see" And getting 6 post updates with no mention of the word chef.
The only chef update that I remember seeing included the word "Really" as if our profession was some kind of joke, and fixing it was doing us a favor.
I better stop now before I start ranting
More next week....
Ezran
Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:32 am
#7
I've lost patience, there has been absolutely nothing done with this profession since I started playing the game. It's time for action. I'm putting up this forum, and copying it on the discussion forum. I'll be posting reasons and comments to the devs once every 2 hours of my waking life until I get some kind of response.
I don't SirVimes saying "A designer said they're working on it" (You're great SirVimes BTW. keep up the good work). Not a "Chefs will be getting a balance pass when we feel like it" (passifier). I want a red name telling the rest of the chefs and I that these, or alternative FIXES will be put into the game, and when they can be expected.
A few small changes to the chef profession that would keep me (and I'm sure many other chefs) content with their profession for many months. They fix serious bugs, balance the profession, and make the life of a chef much more enjoyable:
1) Fix typos in schematics: List the CORRECT stats that affect what experimental values.
2) UT,SR, and whatever other stats that food requires should be changed to flavor: Flavor is horribly underused, while unit toughness, and shock resistance have nothing to do with food. Important stats HAVE TO exist in the ingredients of a schematic. Also, refer to 1)
3) Double the stack size of non-alcoholic food. BoH I can get 8-10 stack size with 15% Exp quantity. Veghash requires 50% for 6. Double will fix this.
4) Double the number of food/drink that can be consumed (Half the filling factor). I should be able to drink more than 1 or 2 BoH before I can't eat anymore.
That's it. Fixed. As complex as any other profession. Balanced. I'm happy. Done.
The first few responses will explain the reasons for these changes further. Tune in.
I don't SirVimes saying "A designer said they're working on it" (You're great SirVimes BTW. keep up the good work). Not a "Chefs will be getting a balance pass when we feel like it" (passifier). I want a red name telling the rest of the chefs and I that these, or alternative FIXES will be put into the game, and when they can be expected.
A few small changes to the chef profession that would keep me (and I'm sure many other chefs) content with their profession for many months. They fix serious bugs, balance the profession, and make the life of a chef much more enjoyable:
1) Fix typos in schematics: List the CORRECT stats that affect what experimental values.
2) UT,SR, and whatever other stats that food requires should be changed to flavor: Flavor is horribly underused, while unit toughness, and shock resistance have nothing to do with food. Important stats HAVE TO exist in the ingredients of a schematic. Also, refer to 1)
3) Double the stack size of non-alcoholic food. BoH I can get 8-10 stack size with 15% Exp quantity. Veghash requires 50% for 6. Double will fix this.
4) Double the number of food/drink that can be consumed (Half the filling factor). I should be able to drink more than 1 or 2 BoH before I can't eat anymore.
That's it. Fixed. As complex as any other profession. Balanced. I'm happy. Done.
The first few responses will explain the reasons for these changes further. Tune in.
DroidfixerLazzar
Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:26 am
#8
I whole heartly agree with you, just got novice chef... but i belive that yes the food and drink fillings need to allow us to eat and drink more.. .also only getting 70xp per pop of my best thing i can make under my novice chef foods and drinks... and i need 32000 for my next level! i calcuteld it out... and after i use up all my resources which has almost tapped me out.. will only give me like 5000xp that may seem like alot but thats A. a crap load of wistral bread i have to grind for hours on end and B. all my resources taken up... I would have to say its pretty unreal that my other two frinds i live with at abou tthe same time made novice droid engineer and novice archetech and one of them is half way through there architect the other has at least 3 skill bars in droid engineer... and here i am still working on my first level of chef skills... ugh!
DroidfixerLazzar
Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:30 am
#9
sorry one more thing... whats with this whole spice gives **edit** loads of buffing... and food gives **edit**... no one no one no one i sell my food to use's it for themselves excpet those who buy an occasinal drink to kinda role play which i think is really cool.... but other than that its please can i buy 10 foods to feed my pet so he can grow kinda thing.... so thats kinda **edit**ty.... that really needs to be fixed in some manner... i like the idea of this professoin but some things need tweeked... ihave had one person get food to buff themselfs and he had to buy over 20 items from me to do so..... andyways just thoughts... thanks
Ezran
Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:01 am
#10
Alright, I went away for the weekend, and got a "state of the profeesion" address from SirVimes.
I don't quite agree with the idea of waiting for devs to have the time for a polished final product. I'm more of an incremental change kind of person. If it takes month for each change, and the changes are huge, it's very difficult to keep the balance. For all we know, chef buffs could be very balanced, but the full potential has not been met.
I got my chance to vent. Even if my posts never get read, at least I got a chance to get it out. Thanks for the replies, it's good to know I'm not a raving lunatic with insane ideas.
This is the last thing I'll post on this topic. I'm going to go back to believing that the devs will make time for every profession, fix the bugs, and I will be one of the few masters of a fun profession. Until then, I'll go find something better to do with my left-over skill points.
Hmmm.... maybe Squad Leader
I don't quite agree with the idea of waiting for devs to have the time for a polished final product. I'm more of an incremental change kind of person. If it takes month for each change, and the changes are huge, it's very difficult to keep the balance. For all we know, chef buffs could be very balanced, but the full potential has not been met.
I got my chance to vent. Even if my posts never get read, at least I got a chance to get it out. Thanks for the replies, it's good to know I'm not a raving lunatic with insane ideas.
This is the last thing I'll post on this topic. I'm going to go back to believing that the devs will make time for every profession, fix the bugs, and I will be one of the few masters of a fun profession. Until then, I'll go find something better to do with my left-over skill points.
Hmmm.... maybe Squad Leader
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