Chef Archive
Thread: Anyone know Master Chef xp cap? Plus Village issues...
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sciguyCO
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:36 pm
#1
I've been bouncing some ideas around my head regarding the whole FS xp thing, and was curious what food crafting xp caps at once hitting Master Chef.
I've got around 110-120k xp, and that's after getting Master last November. Based on the "2 x Tier4 xp" I've seen with some other profs, I'm expecting it to be somewhere in the 140k range, but I was wondering if any longer-time chefs (or ones who throw away more "subpar" schematics in practice mode) can confirm.
My main concern is that the village system still puts crafters into a "grind" mode in order to progress, chefs maybe more so than other professions. At this rate, I'd be looking at roughly3 years of play to gain enough food crafting xp for a single branch. We do 99.9% of our crafting in factories, which doesn't give any xp when making the food, and doesn't give any usage xp (evenwhen all the other uxp requirements are met).
So, what do you think can be done to improve xp gain for chefs who are just going about their business normally? And remember, it should give minimal benefit (preferably none) to someone who is just grinding away in practice mode.
Some ideas that I've tossed up to the devs:
- Improve the usage xp system. Right now, factory-crafted items give no UXP. And even if it did, there are so many limitations (have to be nearby the person eating/drinking the food, only gained when last dose is used) that I doubt any of us have even noticed it.
- Allow uxp for factory-crafted items. To remove the chance of this being exploited, we probably need to remove the uxp gained when eating our own food. Otherwise a grinder could just do a factory run of soypro and eat it all up (since components have no filling). Or just remove the option to eat/drink components (probably a better idea anyway).
- Allow uxp for factory-crafted components when used by another chef in a factory run. This would give low-level chefs a market for both credits and xp by supplying other chefs with things like alcohol, casks, and soypro. Quality doesn't matter for those, so the lack of experimentation isn't a problem. I suppose there is a slim chance for abuse by partner chefs swapping components just for the xp gain. I make a run of soypro and give the crates to someone else, he/she gives me the same, we both get the components we need, and we both earn xp.
- Increase the uxp tracking. If a customer of mine finishes off a stack of Brandy on Dathomir, the uxp should get added to an "uxp pool" associated with my character. If I'm online, that pool gets "drained" periodically into my xp. If I'm offline, the pool gets added the next time I log in.
- Bring back factory xp. This was a touchy subject when SWG launched. During beta, I've heardyou earned full xp for each item created in a factory. Not long after launch, that got reduced to 10% of the hand-crafted amount (although not after some players Mastered weaponsmith / armorsmith / architect / etc just from factory runs). That 10% might still be in the game, but if it is it has the same range limit as uxp (you had to be near your factory for it to work). Use the same "xp pool" system as what I proposed for uxp, but reduce the xp gain to maybe 5% of the item's hand-crafted xp. I doubt using 20x the resources plus having a slower xp gain would be seen as much of a benefit to grinders, but this would definitely give another xp source to people actually playing a crafter.
Any possible exploits with these proposals? Do they maybe grant too much xp (speeding up the FS process)? Any other ideas?
Battery
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:49 pm
#2
It capps at 120k
All masters do very little crafting.The system they have now is grind only if you want to get anywhere. The combat system is atleast playable, you can go hunt nightsisters or whatever and still get somewhere. I'd say running over 30 factories I probably get about 2k a day for xp.
It's a bit late for me to add anything else usefull I tend to babble after midnight 
sciguyCO
Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:20 am
#3
Hmm, didn't think of lot-swapped factories. I tend to make the mistake of assuming everyone sticks to two factories like myself.
Let's see: 20 kiwik schematics of 1000 = 20,000 items at 260 xp each * 5% = 260k xp.
That'll burn up 800k berries, 400k fruits, 400k water, take 22 hours, and cost roughly 44k in maintenance and power. At 3cpu (market price) the person is spending 4.8 million credits for the resources. At 0.75cpu (rough cost for self-harvested) 1.2 million credits.
You're right. Even with the costs, that's too easy. Maybe with a 1% factory xp gain, then they'd be spending all that for 52k xp (converts to 10.4k of FS xp). Although it is all AFK.... Maybe limiting it to xp gained only from factories you own (sitting on your own lots)? Of course, then your lot-swapping partners would be getting chef xp...
Gah, I'm sure it was headaches like these that got factory xp taken out (or limited) in the first place. 
As for the usage xp, I was thinking that keeping the system as it is now (50% xp earned when the last dose of the stack is used) would probably be the easiest to implement, just with the addition of the pool to increase the range and make it work when the crafter was offline. When the last charge is used, the game would determine the crafter and add the appropriate amount to the pool. Component usage xp would probably be a bit more complicated...
Although.....who shows up as the crafter when a lot-swapped factory is used? Didn't it use to show the factory's owner on items that came out? Did that bug get fixed or not?
Oh, and you're right on the 3 year estimate being low. I screwed up my calculations, divided by months twice. 1,225,000 FS xp required per branch = 6,125,000 chef xp (with 5-to-1 conversion). At 120k per 10 months, I lost track of the units and read it as 42 months, when it's 42 years.
ImaJediGetMeOuttaHere
Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:38 am
#4
As far as I remember, the factory owner gets the XP for items created in it, whilst the schematic creator is classed as the crafter (not really played in a month).
I remember factories giving full XP well, I used to craft whilst sat next to my factory on Tarquinas just after launch. As we were based right next to a zone boundary, if I moved to my house, I got no XP, if I moved more than 500m away, I got no XP, if I logged off I got no XP.
The curious thing about UXP, is that BE's still get 150% UXP if the chef is near them as far as I know (I know they did last time I checked, which isn't too long ago) for a chef using a single additive, whilst a chef gets 50% UXP once the entire stack has been consumed
Of course, you only get UXP if the crafter and user are very close to each other, not on seperate zones (for those that dont know, each planet is made up of a number of zones, each on a different CPU), the user finishes the entire item, there's a blue moon, and a flock of pigs fly past in formation
I remember factories giving full XP well, I used to craft whilst sat next to my factory on Tarquinas just after launch. As we were based right next to a zone boundary, if I moved to my house, I got no XP, if I moved more than 500m away, I got no XP, if I logged off I got no XP.
The curious thing about UXP, is that BE's still get 150% UXP if the chef is near them as far as I know (I know they did last time I checked, which isn't too long ago) for a chef using a single additive, whilst a chef gets 50% UXP once the entire stack has been consumed
Of course, you only get UXP if the crafter and user are very close to each other, not on seperate zones (for those that dont know, each planet is made up of a number of zones, each on a different CPU), the user finishes the entire item, there's a blue moon, and a flock of pigs fly past in formation
Battery
Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:02 am
#5
whoever made the schem is now the item owner/creator but someone just told me tonight that when they pulled an item I made from a crate they became the item creator. If that bug is still in the game then user xp wouldn't work.
If they could fix user xp imo it would be alot better for real crafters. If factories give xp there's nothing stopping someone from just running endless amounts of foods and then distroying them ( other then cost ) but this is no diffrent then afk grinding. At least with user xp someone has to eat it. Sub components shouldn't give user xp if they where made in a factory unless they give them a fill stat. Otherwise people can down a full factory run ( I'm not in game and I'm going back to bed 
but do you get user xp now if you eat them ? I've never tried it. )
but do you get user xp now if you eat them ? I've never tried it. )
Ikooga
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:13 am
#6
Yep the cap is 120k xp. I grinded that in 30 minutes sitting in the village, so its faaar too low.
If its not even worth to leave the village then something is wrong.
If I could get 900k at once, i could at least leave the village, do everything i want, grind sometimes, once i hit 900k I go to dath again.
With this I hit the cap before i reach the shuttle in the science outpost
Well some thoughts that go along your line Sciguy:
- Give XP for factories only at Master level. Its irrelevant for grinding here, and Masters at least get FS-XP for their normal buisness.
- Give the Schematic creator/user the XP for the items crafted, in case of lot traded factories (since my factories run on someone else's account thats important for me ), but cap it somehow. Not sure how, but 30 factories at once should not give you 30 times the XP, or it would be just to easy (start all factories and sit beside the guy on Dath and transfer XP every 5 minutes)
), but cap it somehow. Not sure how, but 30 factories at once should not give you 30 times the XP, or it would be just to easy (start all factories and sit beside the guy on Dath and transfer XP every 5 minutes)Well perhaps not such a good idea as I thought at first...
Better tracking of Usage XP would be nice though:
- No UXP for components (to much abuse possible here)
- UXP for each dose thats eaten (not just the last stack)
- UXP even if i'm not logged in or on another planet.
Saitek
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:41 am
#7
Dsabre wrote:
...it wouldn't be difficult for a chef to plop down 20 somewhat factories (yes its possible since theres a bunch I've seen near the village) and sit near them to get the xp while grinding kiwik clusjo swirls...
How is this possible? I thought Dath was a no build zone? I know you could place harvestors there, but factories as well?
Saitek
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:47 am
#8
As far as factories, if you are suppossed to get XP from a factory, then I must be bugged, i spend most of my day next tomy factories (factories that I hold in my own lots as well as others), and I am not seeing an XP gain.
UXP should be given each time they eat or drink anything, however if should be a small gain vs. getting UXP if they finish the stack. Also all area limitations have to be removed. I would think that most of us are living in Player cities, for the benefit of the research center, and most combat folks are not going to just sit around town to fight, they are going to go to more challenging areas (endor, dathormir) where chef's normally don't "hang out".
I sell about 100 to 300 crates a week, so someone out there MUST be using my food, I'd like to see a little gain from that, currently I don't.
Numen
Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:19 am
#9
Saitek wrote:
UXP should be given each time they eat or drink anything, however if should be a small gain vs. getting UXP if they finish the stack.
I don't agree there. I believe the majority of the total exp should come from just using the doses. Its like I would be penalized for offering 5 use synthsteak over 4 use or using casks in all my drinks.
I believe the exp should be based off filling. This actually does penalize you if you lower the filling though. But it would be an easy way of averaging all the foods and making them balanced.
Honestly, I don't see this happening, but stranger things have happened. The current way of gaining FS crafting experience is horrible. I believe an expanded usage exp system would be the best solution in the current situation. However, I'm not a fan of the current situation either. The devs are trying to reward those masters that continue to play their professions. Combat profs go out and kill things. That act gains experience. That is normal play for those professions. Normal play for crafters doesn't grant an equal amount of experience. This is one of the first places grinding came into play. The devs even hinted that it was preferred with the addition of the 5% bonus for practiceing. Why should a master be practicing?
For usage experience to work though, all crafting professions must be included.
Docs - Virtually the same as chefs. usage exp on stim/buff uses.
Tailor - usage exp on component use? Maybe decay, but that would take forever.
Armorsmith - Decay on armor, easy one
Weaponsmith - Decay on weapons, another easy one
BE - Same as tailor basically. Usage exp on components
DE - Usage exp on components. Maybe usage on droids(exp goes to the creator when batteries are used in a droid).
Artisan - Usage exp on a lot of things here. Fireworks would be a possibly exploit.
I do have one huge issue with a lot of usage exp though. Prices have the chance of dropping a lot because people need the experience and that is worth more to them than the credits they are loseing. This change would affect the way crafters may sell things. Right now the bonus is credits and more intangible things like helping others. If experience is a large bonus, that may affect how people play their profession. I don't know if the village should affect the rest of the game that much.
I'm not a fan of keeping it an experience based system. It works very well for combat and certain scouting. For crafting it doesn't, just because of how the system was built.
Dsabre
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:52 pm
#10
only a few problems with uxp...
I think a big factor in for UXP (for chefs at least) becomes how do you properly award it?
every time a stack is finished?
whenever someone takes a drink/bite?
when it is removed from a factory crate?
how much extra lag would be generated by tracking all of these things for xp?
for factory xp...given that cross server lot swaps are still possible...and the price of grind resources...it wouldn't be difficult for a chef to plop down 20 somewhat factories (yes its possible since theres a bunch I've seen near the village) and sit near them to get the xp while grinding kiwik clusjo swirls...
the shear speed of the xp gained would be more than enough to tempt a lot of people...particularly if combined with usage xp (assuming they don't fix the eat the subcomp bit)
as many other professions seem to have come to agreement on...experimentation/quality of items should grant more exp than a non experimented grind item. this would probably do the most to alleviate the mindnumbing boredom of the grind, and cause the least amount of disruption.
the cap for crafting exp...just like everything else is 2x the next tier...if you already have tier 4...then its 2x tier 4.
I think 3 years is a bit low for an estimate of normal playing needed under the system as is now to get even a single branch...
I think a big factor in for UXP (for chefs at least) becomes how do you properly award it?
every time a stack is finished?
whenever someone takes a drink/bite?
when it is removed from a factory crate?
how much extra lag would be generated by tracking all of these things for xp?
for factory xp...given that cross server lot swaps are still possible...and the price of grind resources...it wouldn't be difficult for a chef to plop down 20 somewhat factories (yes its possible since theres a bunch I've seen near the village) and sit near them to get the xp while grinding kiwik clusjo swirls...
the shear speed of the xp gained would be more than enough to tempt a lot of people...particularly if combined with usage xp (assuming they don't fix the eat the subcomp bit)
as many other professions seem to have come to agreement on...experimentation/quality of items should grant more exp than a non experimented grind item. this would probably do the most to alleviate the mindnumbing boredom of the grind, and cause the least amount of disruption.
the cap for crafting exp...just like everything else is 2x the next tier...if you already have tier 4...then its 2x tier 4.
I think 3 years is a bit low for an estimate of normal playing needed under the system as is now to get even a single branch...
Dsabre
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:08 pm
#11
Saitek wrote:
Dsabre wrote:
...it wouldn't be difficult for a chef to plop down 20 somewhat factories (yes its possible since theres a bunch I've seen near the village) and sit near them to get the xp while grinding kiwik clusjo swirls...How is this possible? I thought Dath was a no build zone? I know you could place harvestors there, but factories as well?
ride around the village...particularly the nice flat area right before the village on a direct line from the science outpost...I've seen more than just a few of them there...and theres nothing that used to exist there that would make it even remotely attractive during the time where you could build.
I think the "no-build" zone applies only to houses/merchant tents and such...things players can walk into.
Ankor
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:20 pm
#12
Fixing the whole FS grind system in a "big idea" kind of way is the wrong approach, I think. While it's better design, better for immersion, and just plain cool, it's also incredibly unlikely to get implemented this decade. Look at the amount of time the Jedi revamp took (and is still taking), or how many items have been postponed repeatedly or indefinitely (Smuggler revamp, anyone?) Do you really see the Devs taking the necessary time to design, balance, and code an entire rework of the usage xp system? Bringing back factory xp at a very low rate (say, 1%) would be a nice touch, but it's not an overall solution. We need to address the problems with the current system in a simple and direct manner in order to have any hope of seeing it changed in a timely manner.
Here are my suggestions:
1) raise xp caps (ALL types) at master by 1000%. If a 4/4/4/4 Chef can store 120k, then a Master can store 1.2 million. Master Rfileman's rifle xp cap goes from 900k to 9 mil, etc. There are few balance implications since for nearly all classes this xp is useless for any purpose other than FS conversion. It should be a simple change to code and test. Win-win, imo.
2) adjust FS-xp conversion ratios. This new systen was supposed to be quest-based, meaning that the main barriers to advancement are collecting the badges, completing the quests, and the three-week timer/quest availabilty-phase cycle. Instead all those pale next to the xp grind. This is a fundamental flaw of the system, and the correction is to award more FS xp across the board. This is especially true of a couple xp types (spice, medical crafting, slicing...) which are awarded in miniscule quantites, yet trade in at similar raios to types which are far easier to come by.
Here are my suggestions:
1) raise xp caps (ALL types) at master by 1000%. If a 4/4/4/4 Chef can store 120k, then a Master can store 1.2 million. Master Rfileman's rifle xp cap goes from 900k to 9 mil, etc. There are few balance implications since for nearly all classes this xp is useless for any purpose other than FS conversion. It should be a simple change to code and test. Win-win, imo.
2) adjust FS-xp conversion ratios. This new systen was supposed to be quest-based, meaning that the main barriers to advancement are collecting the badges, completing the quests, and the three-week timer/quest availabilty-phase cycle. Instead all those pale next to the xp grind. This is a fundamental flaw of the system, and the correction is to award more FS xp across the board. This is especially true of a couple xp types (spice, medical crafting, slicing...) which are awarded in miniscule quantites, yet trade in at similar raios to types which are far easier to come by.
Dsabre
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:53 pm
#13
Ankor wrote:
Fixing the whole FS grind system in a "big idea" kind of way is the wrong approach, I think. While it's better design, better for immersion, and just plain cool, it's also incredibly unlikely to get implemented this decade. Look at the amount of time the Jedi revamp took (and is still taking), or how many items have been postponed repeatedly or indefinitely (Smuggler revamp, anyone?) Do you really see the Devs taking the necessary time to design, balance, and code an entire rework of the usage xp system? Bringing back factory xp at a very low rate (say, 1%) would be a nice touch, but it's not an overall solution. We need to address the problems with the current system in a simple and direct manner in order to have any hope of seeing it changed in a timely manner.
Here are my suggestions:
1) raise xp caps (ALL types) at master by 1000%. If a 4/4/4/4 Chef can store 120k, then a Master can store 1.2 million. Master Rfileman's rifle xp cap goes from 900k to 9 mil, etc. There are few balance implications since for nearly all classes this xp is useless for any purpose other than FS conversion. It should be a simple change to code and test. Win-win, imo.
2) adjust FS-xp conversion ratios. This new systen was supposed to be quest-based, meaning that the main barriers to advancement are collecting the badges, completing the quests, and the three-week timer/quest availabilty-phase cycle. Instead all those pale next to the xp grind. This is a fundamental flaw of the system, and the correction is to award more FS xp across the board. This is especially true of a couple xp types (spice, medical crafting, slicing...) which are awarded in miniscule quantites, yet trade in at similar raios to types which are far easier to come by.
just a few things to think about if you think raising the xp cap will help at all for crafters...
1) you increase that weapon xp cap to 9 mil...and you will have riflemen/swordsmen who (aside from the timer on unlocking branches) would be able to get enough xp to get a jedi in a week or less. if anyone doesn't believe this, please go to yavin 4 and visit the geo cave room where the mercs spawn...especially on a heavily populated server...the spawn is always "broken"...i.e. 8+ mercs will almost non-stop spawn in that room...and at 5k exp a pop...it adds up faster than you can blink...whether or not theres 20 guys shooting into the room. there are other places/ways to rack up fast xp...but thats the most commonly known one.
2) more crafters object to the mind numbing boringness of the crafting grind than they complain about having to shuttle back and forth from dath to their house...a lot of people simply craft right there in the village...so exp caps are a non-issue. what difference does it make that you can now sit there and mindnumbingly grind for days instead of hours before having to make a run to the village (assuming you don't craft there)...
though there is 1 thing positive that raising the cap will accomplish...I think the entire Jedi community would finally be able to agree on something....that it needs to be put back to where it was.
as for med xp...slicing xp...those can easily be done in the village as well...hire a dedicated tumble monkey for a few hours...and you'll have more healing xp converted into fs xp than most other professions are capable of. for slicing xp...bring crates of cdef's, and slice at the village...
essentially the only ones clammoring for higher caps are the combat profs...because they hit their cap in an hour or so for weapons xp...if a crafter could do that...wow (either that or they didn't start from 0 xp)...then it would definately help to have higher caps on crafting xp.
a lot of the other discussions in other profession forums have come to similar conclusions...reward experimenting on items...better item should give more exp. from a design stand point its a lot simpler to implement than usage xp...and makes the grind not quite so boring as using exp points is a routine part of crafting as is...especially once you hit master. tailors would have to have some other options like more exp per sockets or choosing a non default color since they don't experiment on any of their items (well...except for 1 subcomponent for armor).
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