Chef Archive
Thread: Experimentation and missing resource stats
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sciguyCO
Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:30 pm
#1
I've noticed a couple posts about recipes requiring resources that are missing PE or Flavor causing problems. I just thought I'd see what I could do to clear up what I feel are some misconceptions.
Note: this is strictly from my own testing in-game, no top-secret correspondent stuff.So far I've just been catching up ongossip and the blackmail pictures the other correspondents have been showing of SirVimes in pink hotpants now that he's gone.
1) Good stats = high experimentation max
The quality of your resources directly affects the maximum percentage you can experiment to. For single-resource items, this is fairly straight forward. Take the stat percentages listed for the experimental category, multiply those by the stat values, add them up, and divide by 10. This will be the "hard cap" on the percentage.
As an example, take Accaragm. It only requires Fungus as a raw resource (components do not contribute anything to the final product). Nutrition depends 66% on PE, and 33% on OQ. If we had PE 750 and OQ 600 fungus, the maximum Nutrition percentage would be:
( 750 * 2 / 3+ 600 *1/ 3 ) / 10 = 70
So with this fungus, you will cap out at 70% Nutrition.
The calculations seem to actually use 2/3 for the 66% and 1/3 for the 33%, so either use the fractions, or expand the decimal to4 or5 places ( 0.33333 * OQ ) and round to the nearest whole number.
2) Multiple resourcesand stat "weighting"
When there are multiple resources in the recipe, each type's contribution gets scaled based on how many units of that resource is used making the final product. First, determine the weighted stat:
Weighted Stat = ( stat1 * units1 + stat2 * units2 + ... + statN * unitsN) / (stat1 + stat2 + ... + statN)
statX means the stat on resource type X, unitsX means the amount of type X used in the recipe.
So Ahrisa uses 20 greens and 10 flowers (again, the contribution from the soypro is ignored). Say we had greens with OQ780, PE900 and flowers with OQ600, PE 810
Weighted OQ = ( 780 * 20 + 600 * 10 ) / ( 20 + 10 ) = 720
Weighted PE = ( 900 * 20 + 810 * 10 ) / ( 20+ 10 ) = 870
Then you take the weighted stats and combine them in the same way as we did in part 1 to find the max percentage:
Max Nutrition = ( 720 * 2 / 3 + 870 * 1 / 3 ) / 10 = 77
With these resources you'd be able to experiment up to 77%.
3) Missing stats
Ok, most of the above has been prety well hashed out, but after some pretty extensive testing I believe I've hammered out how the game deals with missing stats: it ignores them completely. They don't contribute anything (obviously) and they don't "drag down" the other resources.
When calculating the "Weighted stat", the denominator (the "total units" value) should only count the number of resource units that actually contain that stat. So Vercupti uses 10 tubers, 20 insect meat, and 20 lubricating oil. When calculating the weighted PE, you plug in the PE values for the tubers and meat, ignor the oil, and divide by 30 (which counts only the units of meat + tubers). The OQ used would be the weighted combination of the OQ of all three stats.
I came across an interesting thing regarding "organic" requirements (like with Bofa Treats). It seems like it will use the "Missing stat" calculation when you use something like bone or hide, but the "all stats" method if you use flora or meat. This may be specific to food, since I seem to recall a mention by doctors where they got better results using liquid petro fuel as a "chemical" resource in items that require PE (fiberplast, lube oil, and polymer do not have this stat, petro fuel does).
4) Garrmorl: the exception that proves the rule
Ah, Garrmorl, how we love to hate you. Since I've noticed mobs tend to do mostly health pool hits,a Health/Str/Con equivalent of Vas Brandy would be perfect for PvE, wouldn't it? But no matter what we use we can't get the nutrition or flavor percentages above 33, even if we could get our hands on 1000 OQ hide and bone.
Well, that's because in this case there isn't anything to build the "Weighted PE" or "Weighted Flavor" from. No resources in the schematic have those stats, so there's nothing to add in. Although it looks like the devs are calculating "0 / 0" as 0 (since nothing adds into either the top or bottom of the weighting). I guess if they used 0/ 0 = infinity we wouldn't be complaining. 
Incidently, you can see the same behavior if you use hide or bone in T'ssolok (requires only "organic").
Message Edited by sciguyCO on 03-23-2004 10:17 PM
Armeno
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:06 pm
#2
sciguyCO wrote:
I came across an interesting thing regarding "organic" requirements (like with Bofa Treats). It seems like it will use the "Missing stat" calculation when you use something like bone or hide, but the "all stats" method if you use flora or meat. This may be specific to food, since I seem to recall a mention by doctors where they got better results using liquid petro fuel as a "chemical" resource in items that require PE (fiberplast, lube oil, and polymer do not have this stat, petro fuel does).
As a former doc turned chef I just wanted to chime in on this. Did the same analysis on doc items a while back, andfound the same thing you did with food.Doc crafting works in exactly the same way. Anything missing a stat is completely ignored, and in the case of there being no resources with a required stat it is 0 by default. So this isn't specific to food. Comes up big in doc crafting because in stims the formula for power is 66 33 OQ-PE, and formula for charges is 66 33 OQ-UT. Only two resources required are organic and inorganic, and there are no organics or inorganics with all 3 stats OQ PE UT.
As mentioned above petro has PE, but if you have an organic with high PE anyway you're better off intentially finding an inorganic without PE, and gain the extra points towards charges. You can confirm this simply by looking at the final highest possible experimentation % like sciguy said. Have tested this with various other professions as well, DE and artisan. Seems to be the entire crafting system operates in this way (which obviously makes sense from a coding standpoint, but hey you never know).
Anyway I love testing crafting as well, so feel free to contact me if you want a confirmation on any tests.
Sylnia Pulnvo
scylla
Meplorium
Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:13 am
#3
This missing stat is an architects best friend. We always use lub oil on harvesters as it does not have SR or UT like fiber or polymer. The metal only counts. This is why wood is so popular with the BEs when making the additives, you just need a +950 wood source and you can hit 85 on mediums pretty easially.
Course this is all great when you just need one high OQ source for the number and can skip the other, however when you get nothing at all such as garrmorl the Devs have their revenge for our exploiting butts. I would be cautious about asking for a change on this one, as many other crafting profession would get hurt. They did change this once on test center, where a missing stat was 0, and everyone got so upset they reverted it. The original intention was to have the missing stat be 0, but that was one of the many things that couldn't be change in time before live. I guess it stays for good, but learn from the DEs, don't ask for something that isn't important, because they will screw it up. The droid storage units use to use artisan exp and gave artisan exp. It was changed to DE exp and exp and the exp stats went for OQ to OQ and Con. It ruined the crafting station production as it nerfed those units. That would later be fixed for one day when 100% units could be made again, but that is a different story.
GeminiMoon
Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:58 pm
#4
Just made some Durindifire (Drink) and it uses Crystalline Gemstone, and Reactive Gas. Both have no PE or FL stat
Also some schematics use Shock Resistance (SR)where PE is normally used (ie. Quantity in Terrata). I was just wondering if this was intended, or if applying this to garrmorl would fix that problem
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