Chef Archive
Thread: What do YOU hate about dealing with those Bio-Engineers?
Sleksheea
Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:30 pm
#92
Distaste wrote:
First off id just like to say: "If you are a serious BE you would not rely on someone else to get all your resources for you, you would do it yourself"..... well
If you are a seriousCHEF you would not rely on someone else to get all your resources and componentsfor you, you would do it yourself
Sleksheea wrote:
Yup, BE's are just big mad crybabies. I'm a Master Chef/Master TKA/Scout 4040/Artisian 4404and I get all my own meat (I have over 2 million units of one type of meat at 953/735/879 quality from 2 shifts ago... and it was EASY to get. Paird with crappy flora I'm getting 85 point BSN schematics made by a guild member BE. That's over 200 full schematics of BSN's and/or INNs(well lets do the math, 2million divided by 20k=100 thats 100 full schematics you can run). Well, I did say OVER 2 million...techincally that could be 3 million, or 20 million... BE's are WAY overating the difficulty of collecting meat(ok i wanna see you go up to an enraged rancor lair with NO fighting skills NONE, not novice brawler, NOTHING. Now in the hour it takes for you to get him down to half life(if that) you can re-evaluate whats easy, now idk about your server but on Flurry there isnt a good Large scale spawn, the best meat is harvested off of an Insect in Naboo and yields MAYBE 30 units. Lets see you get 2million of that bucko). You should take reading lessons or stop putting words in my mouth as youve done in every response to every post I've made so far. IdidNOT say it'seasy for your puney ass to kill a rancor like you claim I said. I said it'snot so hard to collect meat. How? your puneybrain asks? Go toDath, join one of the MANY rancor hunting groups that are guarenteed to be there during a good spawn of carnivore meat, follow them around and harvest their dead rancors. As long as your in their group,youCAN have a CDEFpistol with no fighting skills whatsoever to get the meat... all you need is novice scout andif you want, a harvesting droid to get you harvesting meat even better than scout 0040.I'ts harder than flora, but not hard enough to charge what BE's think they should get for throwing it in a factory and forgetting about it for 2 days(forgetting about it huh?, I run to my factory to check progression everytime im near them. Not my fault your so dumb you can't calculate time to completion (it's called the examine button on the radial menu of yoru factory). And isnt making brandy tossing a bunch of stuff in a factory? Not in the least. Making brandy is going for the most amazing successes you can get in the most benificial of 4 experimentation bars according to the quality of resources yourusing (all four stats by the way) and thecurrent market often running through 50 or even 100+ crafting sessions (I have to go through this many because I only accept 100% amazing successes in all my experimentation points. Meat is ALOT harder to come by than flora. I can go find a few 100k stacks of good flora but finding 20k of meat is impossible). LOL if this is how it is for you, you are in the wrong profession dude. Again, if you don't want to pick up a fighting class to compliment your puney BE ass, stop whining I'm getting tired of it. And I'm sure a lot of you n00b BE's are going BS... it's called Enranged Bull Rancor missions. They drop 500+ units of meat with veghash and hunting IV... not to mention the 14K credit mission payout you get from doing them. That's 8 rancors at 4000 units of meat per mission (if you milk the lair.) So 5 missions and 45 minutes later you have your 20K meat for your run of INN's. So in the length of a set of doc buffs, you can get a 100K stack of rancor meat for 5 full runs of INN's or BSN's or almost 7 runs of MSN's and 350000 credits in mission reward payments. If you don't have a fighting class character, welcome to the world of you can't have it all! But go ahead and keep crying about it, if it makes you feel better... just stop doing it in the chef forums.(well those of us that dont have fighting professions cant do Enraged Bull Rancor Missions, 2 yes we realise that we cant have it all, thats why we depend on other players to get our meat, and we pay for it. It's still your choice if you don't want to pick up a fighting class (and again, you DON"T have to have a fighting class to collect meat, see my above statement) Just like Chef's pay for BSN's and IN's, why dont they just go grind BE so they can make there own enhancements. OH thats right cuz then they cant have a fighting profession. No fighting no missions. No missions no meat. No meat no enhancements, no enhancements no food, no food no money. No money no chef. I didn't pick up BE because I have FRIENDS who will make me the schematics with my resources... problem solved. Looks like you need to make some friends. We really arnt the ones crying about it.... Yes, you are... I'm sure not crying about anything...check the title of this thread /roll eyes. We are telling you the facts, some of use pay 40cpu for good quality meat, 7cpu for flora. And your the one tellingus chefs that our flora is FREE!Thats around 1.2k per unit, 30k per crate thats no profit, now tac on 8k thats what 25% profit. Now brandy is produced at 2k per unit and thats with our enhancements in it. Thats 50k a crate and you sell at 100k thats 50% profit, double what we make. Now you want us to charge 15k, it isnt going to happen. Your thinking well i can make them cheaper, well i could make armor cheaper if i was an armorsmith, or i could get meat cheaper if i had a fighting professions. WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF YOU CANT HAVE IT ALL.) First of all, I'm happy paying 45K for a crate of average nutrient suppliments when I need to. Most chefs are I believe from reading all these posts. Stop lying about your profits. Secondly, the only problem I have with BE's like you is that you think you deserve to be able to sell a simple sub-subcomponent that you can make in just one factory run, with no worry about amazing successes (It's always easy for a master BE to max out the one line of experimentation in the first try usually) for equal the profit of a chef's main and ONLY marketable product. FOOD. Your smoking crack sonny boy. Stick to making creatures and BE enhanced cloth, you obviously cant handle your whole profession.
I TOLD them they should have made our spherical space station out of the same magnetically shielded walls as the garbage compactor! -Sleksheea
Lozareth
Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:06 pm
#93
Sleksheea wrote:
Lozareth wrote:
So now you're saying we shouldn't profit from hours of gathering meat in rancor missions while your pretty much free fruits and berries that are harvested while you do other things should go for 20cpu (according to your posts in the BE forums)? Also, why are you slamming me for harvesting my own resources and then turning around and saying everyone should harvest thier own resources?
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-29-2004 01:52 PM
What is your deal with the free fruits and berries thing? My top seller is bivoli (+25.49, 15m35s, 3 uses) and that not only needs 20k of any type of meat in the INN, but also 20k of specifically carnivore meat in the final product (amongst several other flora resources and subcomponents). Guess what... NO FREAKING FRUITS OR BERRIES. Again, stop whining and making statements that just show how little you know.
I too make +25, 15m, 3 use bivoli. Doesn't even take an amazing success. Mine goes for 100k a crate. Would've been 85k but a competing chef and his guildmates kept buying it up, so I figured I'd make a few extra bucks off them. I paid 20cpu for my meat for the supplement as well as the bivoli and I harvested all the other resources myself sticking to 70%+ concentrations which yield .3cpu for the flora and water with a BER 13 harvester. 90k (supplement)+ 20k (water) + 6k (carbosyrup) + 25k (protato) + 40k (vegetables) = 181k. 181k * .3cpu = 54.3k credits for the cost of my flora. The meat cost is (20k +30k) * 20 = 1mil. So my net profit on the full run is 4mil - 1.0543mil or just under 3mil. It sells out in 2 days. Not bad for not even having to be online running missions during that time.
One thing you missed is that I didn't say chefs use only fruits and berries. I said this guy tells us we should harvest our own meat and consider it free while he was considering fruits and berries that cost .3 cpu to harvest to be worth 20cpu. Does that dumb it down enough for you?
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-30-2004 03:23 PM
Zed-TORA
Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:22 pm
#94
Let me start by saying im a MBE/MC I have an alt that can hunt for meat solo all day and night. That being Said it is Not unreasonable for a BE to expect payment for his craft that or make a chef wait for the finished product instead of producing a schematic. The Schematic offers the one thing no one picked up on here convinience. You all are complaining it takes BE's to long to produce so you will do it yourself... Well then if that is the case you can pay for the convinence of a schematic or wait.
Beyond that How about taking it a bit further how about selling the BE's Schematics of the Additives so that they can then just sell only finished additives to there other clients. Im sure that would not go over well.. I think someone said how about selling schems to brandy or havla to the BE's for 20k probably would never happen... People need to get a bit less greedy and remember this is a game. That or just do it all yourself
Sleksheea
Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:05 pm
#95
LOL, so far the BE's are ignoring any good point against their arguement, replying in ways that avoid bringing up these points, and continue to whine about points that have already been covered and closed. Why don't you BE's acknowledge some of these points?? I'll tell you why. Because your bitter, angery little children that are mad for spendning so much time mastering a profession that you now thinks sucks because there is another profession that can make more money than you. Now not ALL BE's are like this. Some BE's realize that food neutrients were given to the BE not as a staple income, but as a side job they can choose to do if they want to in order to add content to their profession, make a few extra bucks, or knowing SOE, just to keep chefs purley dependent on other classes, knowing many of them will buy supplimental accounts to become more indapendant thus making more real-world cash. This game is vitrual crack and SOE is the dealer. Why else would they make it so you can only have 1 character on any given galaxy unless you pay for a seperate account?? (Unlike other highly anticipated MMORPG's that I wont' mention the name of since even typing it out on these communist forums get the post deleted).
Sleksheea
Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:26 pm
#96
Zed-TORA wrote:
Let me start by saying im a MBE/MC I have an alt that can hunt for meat solo all day and night. That being Said it is Not unreasonable for a BE to expect payment for his craft that or make a chef wait for the finished product instead of producing a schematic. I totally agree. The Schematic offers the one thing no one picked up on here convinience. You all are complaining it takes BE's to long to produce so you will do it yourself... Well then if that is the case you can pay for the convinence of a schematic or wait. I only agree here if the BE is also providing the resources with the schematic... if the chef is supplying the resources that the BE is making a schematic out of, it's idiotic to think the chef would have to be charged the full price of the final product as if the BE supplied the resources and ran them off in his factory.
Beyond that How about taking it a bit further how about selling the BE's Schematics of the Additives so that they can then just sell only finished additives to there other clients. Im sure that would not go over wellSure it would, I would happily pay for pre-made runs of food additives.Less time and work for me toput into making my food. Also, If I were the chefmaking the schematic for the BE, I'de probably charge like 5K per schematic... doesn't cost me anythingbut a minute of time and I get my namein 1000 additives as the creator for advirtizing.I'dedo it for free if it was a guild member or a friend. I think someone said how about selling schems to brandy or havla to the BE's for 20k probably would never happen...LOL, wrong. I'de do it for 20K in a heartbeat. Of course there is a high chance of theschematiccoming out just average or even crappy during experimentation, and I would charge to try again for a better schematic, and so forth. But then the person buying the schematic would have a ton of work in collecting all the resources and subcomponents to give to me to make that schematic. LOL 20K for 20 seconds of making a schematic,,, hell yes! People need to get a bit less greedy and remember this is a game. Game or not, that's the point of crafting professions, to make money. I don't make food for my health... That or just do it all yourself This is SWG. You'de need 9 accounts to pull that off... the DEV's are anti-fun.
Lozareth
Fri Jul 30, 2004 6:22 pm
#97
Sleksheea wrote:
LOL, so far the BE's are ignoring any good point against their arguement Which points? Which argument? Surely you can provide me with an example. What's your counter to the numerous counter-points made to your posts? Oh wait, I see 2 sentences ahead it's hurling insults. What a great way to ignore the points other people make against you when you can't refute them., replying in ways that avoid bringing up these points, and continue to whine about points that have already been covered and closed. Why don't you BE's acknowledge some of these points?? I'll tell you why. Because your bitter, angery little children Spoken like a true angry, bitter child. BE's we're fine making and selling supplements in thier own way until chefs started whining about thier reliance on our profession and demanding we do things thier way. IF you think about it, it's pretty silly. All but a very few chefs completely rely on a BE, whether they're the same character or not and whether they're getting schematics or buying supplements, and no BE relies on any chef but you think we should do things the chef's way? What a strange opinion, but, hey, it's a free country.that are mad for spendning so much time mastering a profession that you now thinks sucks because there is another profession that can make more money than you. Damn, you have to ignore a lot of points to think this. We don't fight with doctors, weaponsmiths, and armorsmiths because they make more money than us. The 2 big issues here are schematics and the double-standard in resource costs. What made me stop selling supplements was the demands for schematics. When a chef asked for one, I'd point at the 400-600 crates of supplements on my vendor and he'd go "Yeah...so can you make me a schematic?" which makes me wonder why I wasted all that time creating the supplements and stocking the vendor. To put it another way, why are you wasting your time stocking your food vendor? You could be out there selling schematics, man! For me, it's not about what to charge for a schematic. The price of any product is always up to the seller and the choice to buy or move on is always up to the buyer. Demanding that other people do things your way and charge what you sayis pretty ridiculous and reprehensible in my opinion. For the double-standard in resource costs, if you consider your flora to be worth 10-20cpu, why don't you consider the BE's flora to be worth 10-20cpu and use that as a fair price for supplements? We all get resources from the same spawns/vendors and most of the time chefs and BEs are using the exact same flora. With the game setup that way, it's logical that if your quality flora is valued at 10cpu then ALL quality flora is valued at 10cpu and the only way to be fair is to expect that when buying from a BE rather than demanding thier resources be worth less. The argument against this is that the BE's product is just a component, the counter-point is that it's a component w/o which the chef's food is worthless. What is the counter-point to that counter-point? Mostly chefs break down here and say they shouldn't have to rely on BEs to change the subject. In my opinion (note careful use of this phrase, this is not a fact, this is not me telling others what to think, this is simply what I think), a vital component is worth the same as the rest of what goes into a finished product. To digress slightly for a moment, I'm enjoying fixing the double-standard my way by applying what chefs expect a BE's pricing scheme to be to chef foods. It's funny when I'm told they can't make money at my prices, but they've expected BEs to do so all along. Now not ALL BE's are like this. Some BE's realize that food neutrients were given to the BE not as a staple income, but as a side job they can choose to do if they want to in order to add content to their profession,To embellish on this, no BE is required to make supplements or schematics just as no chef is required to make food or schematics. It's what makes demanding others do things your way such a ridiculous task. make a few extra bucks, or knowing SOE, just to keep chefs purley dependent on other classes, knowing many of them will buy supplimental accounts to become more indapendant thus making more real-world cash. This game is vitrual crack and SOE is the dealer. Why else would they make it so you can only have 1 character on any given galaxy unless you pay for a seperate account?? Because the completely player-driven economy they've tried to setup doesn't work if everyone is able to be every profession they want. The downside is people with the resources and inclination to run multiple accounts can really abuse the system. It's not easily fixed either since there's no sure way to tell if 2 separate accounts are the same person without standing over their shoulder while they play. Even people from the same IP address could be different members of a family. The only ways to deal with it are to use the same tactics or play the game your way. Idly whining about it just doesn't accomplish much.(Unlike other highly anticipated MMORPG's that I wont' mention the name of since even typing it out on these communist forums get the post deleted).
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-30-2004 06:24 PM
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-30-2004 06:26 PM
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-30-2004 06:41 PM
aswex
Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:33 pm
#98
Sleksheea wrote:
LOL, so far the BE's are ignoring any good point against their arguement, replying in ways that avoid bringing up these points, and continue to whine about points that have already been covered and closed. Why don't you BE's acknowledge some of these points?? I'll tell you why. Because your bitter, angery little children that are mad for spendning so much time mastering a profession that you now thinks sucks because there is another profession that can make more money than you.
It would a great benefit to this threadif you could list the "covered and closed" "good points" that you are referring to- this thread is long enough that it hasbecome moreconfusing in this respect. I have often seen people respond toopinion A, but assume that opinion A'swriter also believes opinion B. Please do not generalize all BE's, however. BE's have posted on this thread with different opinions, and I know that I have conceded many points (please see my response to Ankor). However, you made a good point: BE's do spend a lot of time mastering their profession. For this, we would like to be paid well, as would any master of an elite craftingprofession. Whether we should make as much as chefs is a subject of ongoing debate, most heatedly fought between chefs who think brandy is far more difficult to make than BSN's, and chefs (not BE's!) who think that BSN's are just as difficult due to the meat requirement. I think brandy is a poor benchmark to begin with, but I'm not going to choose side- I'll just state what the sides are.The schematics debate seems to have two sides as well: those who think the schematic should sell for 50k because it costs the BE's 2 minutes of time and no resources, and those who think the schematic should cost 200k because a) BE took a lot of time to master, b) Chefs will make so much profit that the 200k investmentshould hardly be noticeable, and/or c) the BE would make a lot more profit ifthe chef wouldbuy the actual tissues from him.
Now not ALL BE's are like this. Some BE's realize that food neutrients were given to the BE not as a staple income, but as a side job they can choose to do if they want to in order to add content to their profession, make a few extra bucks, or knowing SOE, just to keep chefs purley dependent on other classes, knowing many of them will buy supplimental accounts to become more indapendant thus making more real-world cash. This game is vitrual crack and SOE is the dealer. Why else would they make it so you can only have 1 character on any given galaxy unless you pay for a seperate account?? (Unlike other highly anticipated MMORPG's that I wont' mention the name of since even typing it out on these communist forums get the post deleted).
There are two points I must address here, but you grouped them so I couldn't break up this part of your post.
1)You state that food nutrients werenot given to the BE as a staple income, but as a'side job'.What you didn't mention is whatthe BE's staple income is supposed to be.It must be one of the following:bio-engineered pets, pet stimpacks/vitality packs, or tailor tissues. I would venture to say that whichever category would sell the most would qualify as the 'staple income', and of course, that would be the chef tissues. If you feel that one of the other categories should be our staple income, I would appreciate it if you would respond with an explanation.
2) Regarding"virtual crack" and alternate accounts: This player-run economy that stresses, even requires, interdependence is what attracted me to the game in the first place (please see my response to Okin_Sin). I'm really not much of a Star Wars fan, and this is actually my first and only MMORPG. Lozareth offered a very good responsetowards the end ofyour post about this issue as well. I believe that people who feel they must buy alternate accounts or feel that as crafters they are obligated to harvest all of their own inorganic, organic and/or creature resources are not playing the game the way it was designed to be played. It seems that what you hate about the game's design (almost-forced interdependence) is exactly what I love about it. I do not believe it is "virtual crack and SOE is the dealer". I've made millions as a BE without an alternate account or guildmates providing resources at unreasonably low prices. It hasjust required a lot of networking with hunters.
Lozareth
Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:42 am
#99
Sleksheea wrote:
Dudes... your both a pain in the ass. Again you don't acknowledge half my points, and the other half you try to explain away with a lot of BS. Looks to me like I acknowledged every one of your points. What did I ignore? Why should I re-type everything in this thread in order to point out covered and non-covered issues? To prove the point you're trying to make in your first sentence, obviously. Your IGNORING arguements made against you that you can't counter and avoiding them by changing the subject, and making up a lot of BS.You've got to back up these statements with evidence. I countered every one of your arguments and the only time I got a little off-subject was to mention of how funnyit is chefs think a chef can't make money if they use the pricing scheme they want BEs to use. (Because I know your'll try to say "oh, what BS are you talking about?"... how about the part where one of you says it takes 3 days to run off a 1000 item run of INN's. BS! It's exactly 2.4 days at 208 seconds per item)Where did I say that? I've been a BE for almost a year and have always known IN's take ~2.5 days to run. And you've stated MANY more falsehoods. I just don't nit pick over every little lie or falsehood, or half truth you state but that doesn't mean your winning any kind of debate!You're right, you just hurl insults and state broad generalities with no evidence and call them points. You think your tearing me a new one by ripping up my posts but your comebacks are such BS all I can do is LMAO. It's not even worth replying to your nonsense. It boils down to you BE's with no fighting skills are just on the rag because you can't get your own meat without paying high prices of which is hard to sell at a profit because chefs don't want to pay even higher prices for your suppliments and yout too lazy to to go out and collect meat with a huntinggroup of which you don't evenneed fighting skills in the first place<----ANOTHER POINT YOU FAILED TO ACKNOWLEDGE BECAUSE YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT. I've always hunted my own resources to add to what I buy to make my prices as cheap as possible, as do the majority of BEs. Regardless, one of the points made by a chef above is that fruits and berries could be sold on the open market for 10cpu. The same point can be applied to meat. If it can go for up to 30cpu and more on the open market, why price it cheaper in a supplement?
Take the average going price of meat, fora, and mark up the item by a reasonable amount (as in up to OMG 100% PROFIT! JUST LIKE A CHEF!) and sell them for that... Always have, though what I consider a reasonable mark-up is 30%.
OK, now your no-math skills brain isconfused. Let me provide you with the equasion:
Flora on a 70% spot = .3 CPU with a BER 13 heavy. GOOD flora = 3-6 CPU if you buy it off the open market (which if you do, your not very smart).
GOOD Meat sells between 20-30 CPU (Don't even try to argue 50 CPU like idiots... cause if you pay that, well, your idiots).Here's a post where herbivore meat, which is fairly easy to get, is going for 50-100cpu on my server: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=209965&highlight=herbivore+meat#M209965, here's one where a chef was offering 30cpu for rancor meat: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=152080&highlight=rancor#M152080, and here's one where a chef drove the price of easy to get insect meat up to 60cpu: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bria_trade&message.id=153451&highlight=iklod#M153451. These are what a bio-engineer has to compete with when trying to get meat from a hunter.
Now lets consider both possibilities...
You are smart...AND you find 20 CPU meat (actually you should already have agreements with rangers, or anyone with scouting IV and some fighting skills): You harvest your OWN flora at .3 CPU. Your most expensive item, the INN will cost you 10,675 credits per crate (.3cpux90unitsFlora+20cpux20unitsMeatx25items) You say you want to sell them at 50K per crate...LMAO
Now lets say your DUMB. You pay 30 CPU for meat, and OMG 6 CPU for flora. (6cpux90unitsFlora+30cpux20unitsMeatx25items)=28,500 credits. You say you want to sell for 50K per crate. I've always priced my IN's at 20k a crate. I know they're cheap to make just as I know chef food is even cheaper to make. Even in a worst case scenerio, (as if it would ever happen) you paid 7 CPU for flora, and 50 CPU for meat. Your INN's would cost you 40,750 credits. Then your making 9,250 credits profit.
Now which one of you mathmatically challenged BE's stated your only making 10% profit? The ones who are told by chefs they should charge 30k a crate of INs when they're paying 40-50cpu for meat.
Stop whining, UFTS and play. -pWned-
I'm not going to comment anymore on this thread as you just want to argue and whine and pretend your some kind of debate artists. I've made my point SEE ABOVE SO YOU KNOW THAT I'M SHOWING YOU MY POINT... All you've done here is express opinions, whine, and tried to distort what others are saying. and I'm outta here.
-Edited out some excessive name calling (sorry, but dumb people get me worked up)
Message Edited by Sleksheea on 07-30-2004 10:30 PM
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-31-2004 06:44 AM
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-31-2004 06:47 AM
Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-31-2004 06:48 AM
aswex
Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:21 am
#100
I realize it looks like Lozareth and I are teaming up against you now, Sleksheea. However, you are losing this debate point by point, mostly by assuming that we have said things that we haven't. I will continue toexercise the message board etiquette that I explained in a previous post.
Sleksheea wrote:
Dudes... your both a pain in the ass. Again you don't acknowledge half my points, and the other half you try to explain away with a lot of BS.
I acknowledged every point in your last post, and you did not respond to the specific point I asked you to respond to (BE staple income).
Why should I re-type everything in this thread in order to point out covered and non-covered issues?
I thought it would be helpful to the thread and it seemed to bother you quite a bit. I should have offered to do it myself since I started thisthread.
Your IGNORING arguements made against you that you can't counter and avoiding them by changing the subject, and making up a lot of BS. (Because I know your'll try to say "oh, what BS are you talking about?"... how about the part where one of you says it takes 3 days to run off a 1000 item run of INN's. BS! It's exactly 2.4 days at 208 seconds per item)
I believe you're blowing things out of proportion here. Yes, it takes 2.4 days to process a full run of INN's. However, if I beginafull run of INN's onMonday at 4 pm when I get home from work, I am not going to wake upat 3 am on Thursday to start the next full run. I'll start itat 4 pmwhen I get home from work.If it took 2.1 days to process a full run of INN's,I would have saidthat it takes twodays to process afull run of INN's. When I see that it takes a chef 6-8 hours to process a full run of dough, drink containers, or food additives that's a full day as far as I'm concerned (and part of why I have no problem with the markup chefs give brandy).
And you've stated MANY more falsehoods. I just don't nit pick over every little lie or falsehood, or half truth you state but that doesn't mean your winning any kind of debate!
The only 'falsehood' you decided to point out of the 'MANY' we've supposedly stated is borderline nit-picking.
You think your tearing me a new one by ripping up my posts but your comebacks are such BS all I can do is LMAO. It's not even worth replying to your nonsense.
I thought myresponses to your postswererather well thought-out and clearly presented, argued point-by-point. If you consider that 'ripping up your posts', I'd appreciate it if you would respond by ripping up my posts.
It boils down to you BE's with no fighting skills are just on the rag because you can't get your own meat without paying high prices of which is hard to sell at a profit because chefs don't want to pay even higher prices for your suppliments and yout too lazy to to go out and collect meat with a huntinggroup of which you don't evenneed fighting skills in the first place<----ANOTHER POINT YOU FAILED TO ACKNOWLEDGE BECAUSE YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT.
You are absolutely correct that itis easy togo out with a hunting group andno combat skills and collect meat (and you forgot to mention that all BE's are required to have Hunting 4, which helps with harvesting). I have acknowledged this before. What I then stated was that I wouldrather not spend three hours of my time doing this, and instead pay someone else to hunt the meat for me and realize a smaller profit for each tissuerun.
Take the average going price of meat, fora, and mark up the item by a reasonable amount (as in up to OMG 100% PROFIT! JUST LIKE A CHEF!) and sell them for that...
OK, now your no-math skills brain isconfused.
I'm a high school math teacher inreal life, so I'm following you just fine, andmarking up the item by a reasonable amount iswhat I already stated I did. 70% markup for +110's. +10% for each additional +1.
Let me provide you with the equasion:
Flora on a 70% spot = .3 CPU with a BER 13 heavy. GOOD flora = 3-6 CPU if you buy it off the open market (which if you do, your not very smart).
GOOD Meat sells between 20-30 CPU (Don't even try to argue 50 CPU like idiots... cause if you pay that, well, your idiots).
These numbers are fair. I pay 2 cpu for flora and 15-20cpu for meat.
Now lets consider both possibilities...
You are smart...AND you find 20 CPU meat (actually you should already have agreements with rangers, or anyone with scouting IV and some fighting skills): You harvest your OWN flora at .3 CPU. Your most expensive item, the INN will cost you 10,675 credits per crate (.3cpux90unitsFlora+20cpux20unitsMeatx25items)
At2 cpu for flora and 15 cpu for meat, my INN's cost 12k. At 2 cpu for flora and 20 cpu for meat, my INN's cost 14.5k.
You say you want to sell them at 50K per crate...LMAO
Both Lozareth and I sell our crates of INN's for under 30k. I mentioned in my last response to you that people were getting confused and attributing opinions to people who don't actually hold those opinions. It looks like for this particular opinion you are one of those people.
Now lets say your DUMB. You pay 30 CPU for meat, and OMG 6 CPU for flora. (6cpux90unitsFlora+30cpux20unitsMeatx25items)=28,500 credits. You say you want to sell for 50K per crate. Even in a worst case scenerio, (as if it would ever happen) you paid 7 CPU for flora, and 50 CPU for meat. Your INN's would cost you 40,750 credits. Then your making 9,250 credits profit.
You're math is fine here.
Now which one of you mathmatically challenged BE's stated your only making 10% profit?
It wasn't Lozareth or myself. I stated in a previous post that on a really good run I can make about 150% profit. As a matter of fact, I've never complained about my profit. The title of the thread is "What do YOU hate about dealing with those Bio-Engineers?", not "What I hate about dealing with you Chefs".
Stop whining, UFTS and play. -pWned-
What's UFTS mean? That's a new one for me. Send it to me as a Private Message- there's no need to clutter up the thread with it.
I'm not going to comment anymore on this thread as you just want to argue and whine and pretend your some kind of debate artists. I've made my point SEE ABOVE SO YOU KNOW THAT I'M SHOWING YOU MY POINT... and I'm outta here.
That's too bad. If you are drawn to get back in the debate, I'd appreciate it if you could form your rebuttals like Lozareth and I do, where you quote an entire text and enter your rebuttals to each point in a different font color. Since we do that and you don't, what happens is that we address each of your points, but you don't address each of our points.
-Edited out some excessive name calling (sorry, but dumb people get me worked up)
You'd bestnot become a high school teacher then.
Message Edited by Sleksheea on 07-30-2004 10:30 PM
contrition
Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:13 pm
#101
I am a master chef/master BE on Starsider. Starsider has an inflated economy. I sell my crates of Brandy for 225k and Bivoli for 250k, canape for 240k and they fly off my vendor so fast I cant keep up.
I was going to set up a BE shop in my PA town because we already have an established Chef. I went about getting meat for a run of BE additives. Now here is where the problem is when you stop considering the huge amounts of money you can make running food. Meat is regularly sold at 50 cpus for CURRENT spawns. You can NOT find any meat for less than 30 cpus unless it is utter crap (less than 1500 combined PE/OQ/FL). So you say, ok offer 30 cpus for meat. WRONG. See, you have to compete with armorsmiths, docs, etc who all are looking for ranger/scout services. These professions offer 70 cpu-100 cpu for current spawns of meats/bones/hides. Do some math. At 30 cpu (the ideal price) its 15k a crate in just meat cost. At 50 cpus (market price for good spawns 2000+) its 25k in just meat cost per crate. Keeping in mind at this rate, you arent going to be able to get rangers to hunt for you. Why hunt for me when you can get double from someone else? Lets say I offer 70 cpu, 35k in just meat cost per crate.
I went through this calculation. Im not opening an additive shop ... why do it? Grind out chef and make the big money. I dont care when Im a chef and have to buy meat at 70 cpu. I make the additives myself, eat the cost, and charge an arm and leg for my food and make millions.
The bottom line is that the margins for just BE additives is horrible. I could run the numbers, but besides additives its pretty damn cheap to make brandy and canape. And then I charge 225k for it and probably make over 150k in profit each crate. I could charge 70k for a BSN crate I suppose .. but for my situation theres no point to it because I am a chef. Ill just make some pets and maybe some tissues to put in my shop and call it a day.
Distaste
Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:05 pm
#102
The purpose of this thread? To get facts straight. Ask what the chef's hate, and figure out either how to fix it or to explain to them why it is like that.
LuCha
Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:30 pm
#103
What do I hate about BEs as a Chef?
Empty vendors (not from selling quickly, but from not stocking)
Broken promises (if you say you are going to do something, do it. If you can't do it, don't say you can)
& hiding... This is funny. I've gotten sooooo many tells from other chefs. It seems like none of the chefs on Bria can find a good (always has product) BE. The only one I knew (Lozareth) stopped making suppliments for chefs. IfI do find a dedicated BE, they are going to get a lot of business. I'm glad I stocked up when Loz said he was going to stop. (Yes I bought about 10mill worth of stuff, and at Loz's prices that's a lot!)
and for the record: I have beenbuying from Lozareth for a loooooong time, andI have always YELLED at him about his prices... I said they were too low 
Erus
Master Chef
Master Tailor
Master Merchant
Battery
Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:03 pm
#104
never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down and beat you with experience
The 3 of you can keep quoting till your fingers fall off none of you are ever going to admit you're wrong and after 5 pages do you really have anything that hasn't been said ? 