Chef Archive
Thread: How would you fix buffs
-Decrease Doc buffs (**edit** would be pissed if they totally nerfed them, although he'd prob be pissed anyway).
-Take away downers from food and non-alcoholics (alcoholic drinks would be understandable. Although higher or longerbuffs would be expected on those).
-Higher stat buffs for Chefs. As other have said, it's all we do. Docs can rez for crying out loud. I'm going to start shoving my food into peoples mouths while their dead, hoping I get rez one day.
-Change tree's, highest buggers should be at the top, obviously.
Make it a fun class to play.
Yes, you need a doc to apply them, but its alot easier to find a doc to buff you then a chef who is selling food.
Our populations are low, its like finding an ice cube in hell.
The only thing easier to find then a doc is a creature handler.
I tend not to post too often, since I dislike giving bad advice to problems people might have. But I have actively read the chef boards ever since I decided this is what I want to do with my character. I have read many concerns that the chefs are having. The ones listed here, that I have read, I will agree with 90% of the concern you have posted.
There is one part of the increased buff that I hope everyone is considering. Should a product hinders a stat, like sunburns hinder focus, should that negative be modified to balance the increased buff?
I do like how many have posted that some food items should have small buffs at a longer time, and bigger buffs have a shorter time.
I feel enhancements form food should, if they don't already do, enhance ones combat potential. By this I mean beyond the increased ham or secondary stats. each buffing profession does that. Why not make one more accurate or hit slightly faster. I don't mean this as a buff from one food, but more like if you are full you get this bonus. I have seen the tip/ advice when I log in saying food aids one in battle (I forget exact wording) I would really like to know if they meant in a way different form doctor buffs or spice.
Since I am low on the chef tree I am not experiencing all of the problems a master does, however, the food and drink bars are a concern of mine. Right now my character is full of food that I ate three days ago. I Think they should be able to update without the attempt to eat or drink. I would prefer to have a % somewhere. either as an alternative, or if I place my cursor over the bar. I would hope the %'s be generalized since one can't really say I'm 61% full.
I can wait on the problems that I see if the devs do something to the class in general. If we are ignored, I doubt I will drop or quit due to frustration. Right now there is something the devs got right, for me at least, I am having fun with this profession. That is all that really matters.
I hope that each of you can find enjoyment in this class, despite its problems.
Have a good day.
I would prefer to see foods lasting around 30-45 minutes, maybe to an hr maximum with a larger increase in buffs. There are a couple of reasonswhy I chose this but I think this way isoptimal. This would give us food which lasts around 10xto 15xlonger and could buff 2x to 3x better. If food lasted longer than one hour we could start running into problems of reselling.
ie:I can currently make stacks ofBreath of Heaven with 25 uses. If each use lasted 2 hrs, that would be 50 total hours of food for one stack. This is not per crate, this is just for one stack. Well if this said person would only fight 2 hrs a night (every night)and consume one usage (every night), they would be back in 25 days to buy another stack. Selling one stack a month will be a problem.I personally would want my customers to come back more often than that. Imagine if you solda crate(25 x 25 =625 uses or 1250 hours). Sell one crate, and you'll see that customer next year when it finally wears out of uses. Not all food has a stack size this large, but it's something to think about.
First off, Sciguy, that's a very well thought out post concerning chef balancing from a top level view. It's long, but everyone should read that to broaden any misconceptions they might have.
I have had a pow-wow with about 15 high level combat characters on my servers that are regular customers. I have polled them with questions as to what they like experimented, how they use food with other buffs, and what they would resonably want the most with food. I've come to a conclusion similar to fatgit's, that chef might be slightly underpowered, but I think that doctor buffs are the huge imbalance to the system.
*CHEF COMPARISONS*
For my comparisons, I use spices as my baseline, because I feel these work almost exactly as a developer intended the power of buffs to be.
-Doctor buffs last 5-10 times longer than spices, at about 3 times the power. Doctor buffs are much harder to get (spices are portable, easier to make, and require much less raw skill points to get schematics for), but the buffs they supply imbalance the game in a way that I don't think the devs intended.
-Chef foods last about the same as spices, and are less powerful in that they usually buff only 1-2 stats while high level spices can do much more. Spices are easier to make (both factory time and resources), require less skill points, and they only fall short with foods when it comes to downers and the fact that foods come in stacks (spices are generally more expensive per use). I believe that chef foods should be moderatley better given that chefs only have the ability to buff, while smugglers have a ton of goodies with them.
-Entertainer buffs don't work in any reasonable way at the moment. Given the downtimes involved to buff mind stats, I feel that they make the worst buffs in practice. No one (not even entertainers themselves) seem to mind this too much.
*WHAT PLAYERS WANT*
From what most players look for, it's power and portability. I sell spices with my foods, and most high level players cannot use spice given the downers. They don't seem to mind popping 2 ryshcate every 3-4 minutes as long as it's the most powerful stuff I can make. They do not have the time to get entertainer buffs, and most like the secondary stat boosts. Theyuse food in PvP because one death, and the doctor buffs go away without expiring the timer (they can't get anymore enhancements). Several players have told me that long 30+ minute durations don't matter much because of downtime/death/incap/social stuff that would waste the buff (the exception is spawn campers). Most said the best thing food could have would be combat skill boosts.
*WHAT I WANT TO SEE IN FOOD FOR BALANCING*
All I want to see, is (in order of preference):
- Doctor power to be nerfed in either duration, or (more probable) power.
-15ish minute durations on master level foods (and SCALE DOWN APPROPRIATLEY!)
- BE food components to be simpler(less resources, more generic resources)
- 1000 power to stats at master level foods (scaling down appropriatley)
- Possibly adding skill mods to food (weapon speed on some dathamirian coffee)
- Allowing stat buffs to affect pets the same way it affects players.
Naturner wrote:
First off, Sciguy, that's a very well thought out post concerning chef balancing from a top level view. It's long, but everyone should read that to broaden any misconceptions they might have.
Since I'm replying anyways, I'll put in a quick thanks.
-Entertainer buffs don't work in any reasonable way at the moment. Given the downtimes involved to buff mind stats, I feel that they make the worst buffs in practice. No one (not even entertainers themselves) seem to mind this too much.
What makes them unreasonable?I think the 5-10 minutes of downtime to get a 2 hour buff isn't too bad, expecially considering that it doens't require anything to craft.
*WHAT PLAYERS WANT*
From what most players look for, it's power and portability. I sell spices with my foods, and most high level players cannot use spice given the downers. They don't seem to mind popping 2 ryshcate every 3-4 minutes as long as it's the most powerful stuff I can make. They do not have the time to get entertainer buffs, and most like the secondary stat boosts. Theyuse food in PvP because one death, and the doctor buffs go away without expiring the timer (they can't get anymore enhancements). Several players have told me that long 30+ minute durations don't matter much because of downtime/death/incap/social stuff that would waste the buff (the exception is spawn campers). Most said the best thing food could have would be combat skill boosts.
*WHAT I WANT TO SEE IN FOOD FOR BALANCING*
All I want to see, is (in order of preference):
- Doctor power to be nerfed in either duration, or (more probable) power.
-15ish minute durations on master level foods (and SCALE DOWN APPROPRIATLEY!)
- BE food components to be simpler(less resources, more generic resources)
- 1000 power to stats at master level foods (scaling down appropriatley)
- Possibly adding skill mods to food (weapon speed on some dathamirian coffee)
- Allowing stat buffs to affect pets the same way it affects players.
All good ideas. And your BE comment reminded me of an idea I'd had looking at the Doctor buff schematics. Why not give chefs "advanced" components requiring specific resources: Advanced soypro with Correlian water and Nabooian vegetables, Advanced Pastebread needing Tatooine wheat, Lokian Oats, and Rori water, Advanced Bantha Butter....well with the rarity of milk, this should be advanced already. 
Put the advanced schematic two or three skill boxes up from the basic one, and modify the schematics to take one or the other. We have something like this with the different Alcohol components, so I think the basis is there.
Only issue I have is yes I feel the buff should be on a more grand scale but in reality If 1 bite our food would last 2-3 Hours instead....Where would the sales be then? I can make a crate of Breath Of Heaven that Has 11 Uses per Stack And 25 Stacks per crate so that is 250+ Uses and adding that up over 2-3 hours per use.
That would be like 1 sale every month or so.
The most any buff should go for is 30Mins IMO . But there needs to some rearranging done with which food goes where on the skill tree.
I'm a little shaky on the entertainer buffs, but I was thinking that it required much more downtime to attain a 2 hour buff (on the order of 30 min from both a dancer and musician). Given that I don't really play combat anymore, I don't see the inside of a cantina much either...I'll need to check it out for myself.
The advanced components does seem like it would help balance things out. Working your way up to aludium really helps your drinks out, and a proper protato/soypro/sweetcake/carbosyrup advanced component set (including milk) would work a lot better.
I do agree that you don't want most of the Chef line to have long duration buffs like docs.. However, I would like to see 6 recipes (covering the health and action pools) that can buff for up to 2 hours @ 1,200 pts.. And those recipes should be reserved for Master level only.. Below that should be a wide variety of buffs ranging from 15 minutes to an hour.. Even the hour long one will be costly and rare.. Due to the fact that most chefs need repeat business, I would like to see 80% of the recipes to range in the 15-30 minute category..
I do agree 100% all negatives values need to be ELIMINATED.. even docs don't have this and that should be something for smugglers to worry about.. Just say NO to drugs.. lol The buff needs to be better and longer and they have to totally take out any negatives about being too full to eat when the buff wore off long ago.. There is nothing more irritating they to eat a food, recieve a 6 minute buff, but have to wait another 12 minutes before you can eat more..There just isn't anything appealing to taking chef food as a regular daily basis.. It takes up to much of your inventory, doesn't last long enough, doesn't buff enough..
Basically, this profession is virtually broken beyond repair as it stands..It's time to go back to the chalkboard and redo the entire chef buffing and recipe line up.. The first day as a chef and I noticed that my Artisan foods were better then 95% of all novice and level 2 chef recipes, should of been a clue that cheffing has some serious issues.. Would you allow an Artisan (Eng 4) to make better cdef's then a Weaponsmith? Would you allow a Medic (Chem 4) to make better stims and wound packs then a Doctor? I think not, so what and why did someone drop the ball here?
I agree with this Idea 100%, it seems to be the bestway to fix chef.In fact, it would also be the easiest way to fix chef, as the devs would simply have to add skill enhancements to each food item, instead of revamping the entire chef line. I hope everyone gives their support to this idea!
SualDevon wrote:
I remember there has also been suggestions floating around about being able to buff things other than stats, like giving +15s to Burst Run, or something. Why not a food that perhaps gives a +1 Melee Defence for 200s? Kind of like a temporary skill tape, so to speak.
Great question. Here's my opinion.
First, no negatives to stats ever. There's just no reason for it.
Second, much longer duration. The buffs should last for however long you are full, and should be able to be replaced by eating more food/drink/desserts. Doctors can rebuff right after their buffs wear off - why not us?
Third, I propose that the system be based around using 2 drinks, 2 entrees and2 desserts at a time. It just makes sense to me.
Finally, all buffs in the Domestic Arts and Chef lines need to be rearranged. For instance, I would cover all of the stats at every other level, with increasing power and multiples of buffs at higher levels. Assign one stat group toentrees, one to drinks and one to desserts. Example:
Dom Arts I:Focus Buff Food I (+20 Focus), Con Buff Drink I (+20 Con) and Quick Buff Dessert I (+20 Quick)
Dom Arts II: Will Buff Food I (+20 Will),Str Buff Drink I (+20 Str) and Action Buff Dessert I (+20 Action)
Dom Arts III:Focus Buff Food II (+40 Focus), Con Buff Drink I (+40 Con) and Quick Buff Dessert I (+40 Quick)
Dom Arts IV: Will Buff Food II (+40 Will),Str Buff Drink II (+40 Str) and Action Buff Dessert II (+40 Action)
Novice Chef:Mind Buff FoodI (+40 Mind),Health Buff Drink I (+60 Health) andAction Buff Dessert I (+60 Action)
Entrees I:Focus Buff FoodIII (+60 Focus) and Combo Buff Food I (+40 Will/Focus/Mind)
Desserts I:Quick Buff Dessert III (+60 Quick) and Combo Dessert Buff I (+40 Action/Quick/Stam)
Drinks I:Con Buff Drink III (+60 Health) and Combo Drink Buff I (+40 Str/Con/Health)
And so on and so forth. Since we have nine stats (3 "groups"), it should break down properly along these lines. Everyone would understand what they are getting and could mix and match as it suited them.
I have been agreeing with the posters so far. Was it not the developers who said that Chefs were supposed to have buffs that were not very powerful but long lasting? If we could make foods that gave +50 for 10 minutes at Novice, to +500 for 3 hours at Master, that could work. Of course, the whole Doctor buffing gets in the way here.
I remember there has also been suggestions floating around about being able to buff things other than stats, like giving +15s to Burst Run, or something. Why not a food that perhaps gives a +1 Melee Defence for 200s? Kind of like a temporary skill tape, so to speak.
And if these schematics are going to take such diverse resources, please make them worthwhile to sell. Right now, it is difficult to convince people to purchase them at a break-even price.
I envision the Chef profession as a crafter who makes food that people will want to log in and fill up on before they go out hunting for a few hours. We are supposed to eat 3 meals a day, right? 
But please, please, please never make food a requirement! I would rather not be mass producing Almond Kwevuu Crisp Munchies all day.
I hope this all helps to /poke at the cerebrum of the developer who is in charge, whomever that may be. I just wonder what else he is in charge of? If it is DE, then godspeed me friend!