Chef Archive
Thread: What do YOU hate about dealing with those Bio-Engineers?
Sylvandk
Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:50 am
#14
Sleksheea wrote:
I find most BE's can't even keep up with my demand for food additives. So I had to just start collecting all the resources myself, harvesting the flora with my fleet of 30 flora harvesters (or part of it anyway), and getting my own meat (I'm a master TKA as well as master Chef with scout 3,0,4,0), and also paying for most of the meat I use. I then just have a guildie make me a bunch of schematics with my own resources (who all get 50% off food anyway), or pay a non-guild BE 5k per schematic or a free crate of food of his choosing for a whole pile of schematics... charging 50K for a single schematic is pretty retarded I think... talk about a rip-off... when it takes less than a minute of time to make one, I think 5k per is reasonable. (How cheap can you get ?) AND none of you BE's have a leg to stand on as to making a rebuttle concerning this. Why? Because you never have the stock available or even the resources to fill orders, and if you do, chefs have to wait eons before you get it finished. I use about 8-10 INN's, 5-6 BSN's and 3-4 MNS's per week. Could any BE actually even come close to filling that order? No. The prices BE's usually ask for food additives are inflated by their own lack of ability to supply the demand of chefs. I say I need the above order in a week, you think well, that would take all my time and money and resources, etc. to even fill half that order so I'm justified in cranking prices up. Well, I fill that order all by my self in buying/gathering my own resources and getting schems made for them, AND keeping up with the food demand as a chef.
Now before you BE's get your enhanced synthcloth panties in a bundle, let me admit why I can do this and you can't. It is because I make bank on my food. I can afford to pay 33 CPU for Dath carnivore meat (so you already realized what the problem is ?)(I bought 3.5 million units of it at that price during the last good spawn... do the math). That will last me fora good while till the next good spawn. Why do I make bank? Well, it's NOT because I'm a chef. Many chefs can't make two bucks. It's because I'm a damn good chef who happens to have stockpiles of uber resouces that can make the best foods on my server. (For example, my brandy is +440mfw/45min/50fill/18uses. Which may be mediocre on some lucky servers, but on mine is pretty good stuff). People are ready to pay top dollar for the best stuff...
A new chef who can't make top notch food is pretty much SOL. You new BE's are lucky enough that in a MUCH shorter amount of time, you can get decent resources to make competively powered food additives and quickly enter the market. You have 2 resources that need to be good to make good additives and that's it. Chefs need goodeverything on the entire flora tree, the whole creature tree, and parts of the mineral tree andchemical trees to make good stuff. (talking about your whole line of foods, I think you forgot that BE's needs just a big variety of things to make everything they can make) Thattakes patience and dedication. (And getting enough resources to keep you chefs in stock with components doesnt ?) That also justifies a higher price for the end products made vs. be food additives as far as charging credits per unit of resource. (so now you want to pay less for something you know the BE needs money to get you ? you said it yourself, ppl are willing to pay alot of credits for good resources, and I'm sure you'd like good components too ?) So that is why chefs deserve to be more profitiable in their food than BE's in their additives (note: I'm not considering the other items BE's make, just additives). But guess what... BE's demand to make as much as chefs do CPU wise. It's funny, but I've never had a tailor demand money for trim or trim schematics... heck, I've even gotten factory runs of trim for free just because they were bored! (I of course repayed them with food and whatnot.)
In conclusion, I think chef's generally sell on a CPU scale. Same as BE's and their additives... and chefs get mad when they see BE's trying to sell a simple subcomponent that generally requires no skill in crafting (IE it's easy to max out the one stat bar) for the same or higher CPU as the much more complicated food the chef is making.
P.S. BE suppliments are not what increses the buff power of a given food, it is the food additive the chef makes using the suppliment as a subcomponent in that food additive... just being technical
(so you dont want to pay alot because the BE components are subcomponents? or do you just have a stick up your ass from beeing dependant on another profession?)
"The prices BE's usually ask for food additives are inflated by their own lack of ability to supply the demand of chefs." cool.. whats your excuse for inflating yours?
anyways, arguing about 50k is pretty low and your a fruitloop..
Message Edited by Sylvandk on 07-26-2004 01:57 PM
aswex
Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:39 am
#15
The temperature's rising in this thread, but I've still only got one person who posted a price for chef tissues (1k per tissue). Here are some facts that you can use to help you come to an estimate if you're a chef that's never really thought about it before:
MNS: 20 organic, 15 flora food, 15 creature food
BSN: 35 organic, 25 flora food, 20 creature food
INN: 55 organic, 35 flora food, 20 creature food
Important stats: FL: 20%, PE: 30%, OQ: 50% (It's a lot of fun looking for resources with good scores in all three categories. I hear you chefs only have to worry about PE and OQ- is that true?)
I don't borrow lots because I'm trying to function as if I'm in an actual player-run economy. I use 2 lots for a house, 1 for a merchant tent, and 7 for factories. I can usually buy my flora for 2 cpu and my creature food for 15 cpu. My MNS's are usually between 53 and 56, my BSN's are usually between 83 and 86, and my INN's are usually between 113 and 116. So based on what I pay, what do you think you should pay?
Barox
Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:59 am
#16
Allrighty then 
This is what I would pay
INN 40-50k
BSN 35-45k
MNS 25-35k
I guess ??? this depends very much on server though. I cant even remember how much I pay only it is something like that.Again i got a good deal with discount on the usual prices same as she gets a discount on my food. 15 cpu is very cheap for good meat gratz on that There are some food and drinks we uses three stats the most popular brandy vercupti ahrisa and Canape. Canape is how ever one where we might could use all of them since 10 min duration and 33 fill is nice to make
This is what I would pay
INN 40-50k
BSN 35-45k
MNS 25-35k
I guess ??? this depends very much on server though. I cant even remember how much I pay only it is something like that.Again i got a good deal with discount on the usual prices same as she gets a discount on my food. 15 cpu is very cheap for good meat gratz on that
There are some food and drinks we uses three stats the most popular brandy vercupti ahrisa and Canape. Canape is how ever one where we might could use all of them since 10 min duration and 33 fill is nice to make
Sylvandk
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:07 am
#17
prices since your asking:
light 1.35 mill (+57)
medium 1.5 mill (+87)
heavy 1.7 mill (+117)
MozzerKing
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:19 am
#18
I can see both sides of this argument. From my perspective as a Chef, my main gripe about BE's is that they can't keep up with my demand for tissues. I eventually got so fed up with delayed orders and long unacceptable stretches where I couldn't find any BE tissues, that I did what a previous poster did and bought up huge quantities of Dath Carnivore meat. This has totally changed the game for me in a good way because BE's no longer have me by the balls. By doing this I fixed my supply problem and better yet, I'm saving about 700k per run of tissues because I'm making them myself. What concerns me most is that BE's themselves haven't used the same tactic with Dath Carnivore meat. I know that they don't make as much money as Chef's but I've personally paid millions and millions ofcredits to several BE's so I know they've got the money to buy 500k-1000k of it when it spawns. You don't need to pay a high CPU rate for it; it drops in such large quantities even 20cpu is going to get a HUGE response.
Sylvandk
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:28 am
#19
MozzerKing wrote:
I can see both sides of this argument. From my perspective as a Chef, my main gripe about BE's is that they can't keep up with my demand for tissues. I eventually got so fed up with delayed orders and long unacceptable stretches where I couldn't find any BE tissues, that I did what a previous poster did and bought up huge quantities of Dath Carnivore meat. This has totally changed the game for me in a good way because BE's no longer have me by the balls. By doing this I fixed my supply problem and better yet, I'm saving about 700k per run of tissues because I'm making them myself. What concerns me most is that BE's themselves haven't used the same tactic with Dath Carnivore meat. I know that they don't make as much money as Chef's but I've personally paid millions and millions ofcredits to several BE's so I know they've got the money to buy 500k-1000k of it when it spawns. You don't need to pay a high CPU rate for it; it drops in such large quantities even 20cpu is going to get a HUGE response.
yes, when thats possible.. but if your not willing to pay enough to let the BE do that, your going to run around a bad bad circle.. (I know you payed, I just meant chefs complaining about the BE prices)
And you need to find a BE that'll do that ofcourse.. not someone thats going to use all his profit on something else, and then still be struggling for resources.
MozzerKing
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:33 am
#20
Sylvandk wrote:
yes, when thats possible.. but if your not willing to pay enough to let the BE do that, your going to run around a bad bad circle.. (I know you payed, I just meant chefs complaining about the BE prices)
And you need to find a BE that'll do that ofcourse.. not someone thats going to use all his profit on something else, and then still be struggling for resources.
I'd consider it a big step if I could just find a few solid BE's who agree to work for me exclusively. In turn, I'd commit to buying a set, predetermined number of runs per week. We could agree on prices based on quality of tissues and I'd feel better knowing that I'm not competing against half a dozen other Chefs for their time and resources.
But so far, I've not been able to work this kind of deal out so unfortunately I've cutout the middleman (the BE) and now I work directly with the meat hunters.
Batman_TWB
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:38 am
#21
Honestly, I dont deal with BEs. I have a guildmate that makes me my addtives and he gives them to me and I give him food in return. There seems to be a lack of MBE on Tempest. The 1 I know of sucks. He spammed in the mining op for a bit about his vendor, nameing chefs in partculiar. Went to his vendor and the guy had a few addtives in singles on his vendor. I was thinking wth am I a going to do with a couple singles? I check here and there cause his vendor is in a mall that I frequent, well now I see a crate or 2 on his vendor. Even when I contacted him b4 about addtives, I was left un impressed casue he wanted mucho dinero for less then impressive stats. So as far as the BE/Chef war goes I think it is 2 sided and will never end. Chefs need BEs but BEs feel they are mistreated. Then again they are just 1 part of chef and it is a elective part at that. Guess that is why most Chefs get BE themselves and dont deal with BEs leaving non chef BEs in the cold.
Saitek
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:58 am
#22
DarkSieg wrote:I agree I had a BE want to charge me 50k to make a schematic for BSNs. That seems a little high for a minute of work when the resources are given to them
Umm you are bitching about 50k? That 50k schematic will get you a 1000 run of mediums, which is easily turned into 40 crates of Brandy, which you could easily sell anywhere from 100k to 250k a crate. With the profit you are making on that 1000 run I can't even believe you are complaining about having to spend a WHOPPING 50k on a schem.
You should be happy he/she is even making you a schematic, I am a MBE and Master Chef and I won't even make anyone a schematic from either profession.
This thread is really sad, I mainly see a bunch of Chefs who seem to have no respect for any other profession but their own, yet have a demanding attitude they everyone give them respect.
The fact is Chefs NEED BE's, and each profession deserves respect and each takes hardwork and dedication. Just because Chef's make a final product, whereas they make a component does not make them any less important.
Sylvandk
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:58 am
#23
well, he might just be a bad BE.. but we're stat dependant too, so whatever is in shift, or they have a stock off determins the stats..and the meat is probably going to cost him the same to get either way.. unless their really good and everybody wants it..
Distaste
Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:59 am
#24
I side with the BioEngineers
I will try and get acrossed several points-
First Note that i am indeed a Master Chef and a Master BioEngineer. Some BioEngineers are also CH or Tailors, then the occasional BE that has fighting skills.
Second, BioEngineers are rare compared to other crafting professions. I can find 50 Armorsmiths or Weaponsmiths to 1 BioEngineer. I had problems finding a Bioengineer that could give me what i needed or anything at all so i decided to grind it out myself.
Third.Finding good Fruits and Berries is hard enough, now add in meat to that eqaution. Chefs have to procure Fruits Berries Trim(easy to get), gemstone(can we say bazaar?) and last but not leaste the additives. Bioengineers need to procure fruits/berries and meat. I can get about 400kfruits and berriesfor the same price i can get 20k of good meat. 20k good meat = 1 run of additives. you need 40k fruits and berries to produce 1 run. So for the meat/flora ratio you can produce 10 runs to our 1. Now we have to worry about all 3 items and 3 stats per itemgoing into our product vs the chefs 2(fruits and berries) items and 2 stats per item.
Fourth. The production time for BioEngineers is double the production time of Chefs. I dont care if you produce your own Alcohol or not, its still way longer. Now depending if you run the trim or alcohol yourself your production time may go up. But at this point if your a master chef and not another crafting profession you can load it up in the morning go out hunting MAKING MONEY i might add, and come back at night and its done. Now us BioEngineers load our factories up and 2 days later we have our products. Meanwhile the chefs are barking at you, I NEED MORE MORE MORE MORE. Now in those 2 days what do you think we do? sit around and snicker at the chefs? Hell no, we are out in the field collecting DNA or finding more resources, which doesnt really pay that well. Then we take our DNA and manufacture pets, you have no clue how hard it is to make a really good pet. 700+ creatures in the game and we have to sort through them to find which stats we want. Then we we create them there is no gaurente that it will turn out right. Meanwhile Mr. Chef is out there in teh Geocaves killing NPC's and getting loots, or out doing Janta Missions gaining more money.
Fifth and Final. Whats your profit there Mr. Chef? Ill tell you, 300%. Whats the BioEngineer Profit? 25% damned if i would know cuz math wasnt my subject but thats 12 times more than BioEngineers. Now based on my production Costs:
Brandy costs 2k per unit to produce
a GOOD +87 BSN costs 1220 per unit to produce.
Current Selling Rates:
Brandy= 130k
BSN=38k
So let me get this straight. The chef's want our schematics so they can make there own Additves. Yet they dont pay use what we deserve. They expect use to hand over a schematic that can produce us 400k profit yet them over 5 million. I mean come on, you gotta be retarted to think a BioEngineer will hand you over a schematic for 50k. I for one charge 400k for 1 schematic. Thats the profit i would have made, so thats what i charge for it.
Now who does more work to actually produce a finished product? The chef.
How many Chefs are there out there? ALOT
How many BioEngineers? Not many
Who has a harder time procuring the materials to produce a finished product? The BioEngineer
Who gets the wrong end of the bargain when our product is 61% of their product yet we only see 25% of the profit? BioEngineers
Who has to produce many items for many different professions(Chefs, Tailors, Ch, Non CH)? BioEngineers
My point being here is look at what BioEngineers have for schematics. Then Look at what Chefs Have. Chefs produce Brandy and Canapes as their Flagships, we really dont have a huge flagship since CH got nerfed.
So in Conlusion. We dont have to make Chefs tissues, nor do we have to make your schematic. So thank your lucky stars that we do produce them.
You guys want schematics? How bout we trade you our schematics+items needed to produce the schematic, and you guys trade use a brandy schematic and all the items to produce it? Thats right trade use a 1000 run of brandy for a 1000 run of BSN's NOW WHO IS GETTING GIPPED.
Okin_Sin
Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:12 am
#25
I feel like BE's want to be treated like Gods for thier proffesion sometimes. If you as a BE did all that leveling to make all your profit off of food additives, I think you went the wrong direction. Ive read so many BE posts were the BE's think they should make the same profit off of the additives that Chefs make off finished foods. I will try to recap what I think the main points are
1) BE additives regardless of how hard/expensive to make are just a component
2) This component is only sold to 1 proffesion, Chefs
3) Chef foods are sold to every proffession in the game, therefore have a MUCH larger customer base
4) Most BEs I seemed to talk to say they won't make the additives because the profit margin is to small, and also refuse to make schematics
5) It has been proven that even at 15k for BSNs people CAN make a profit
6) BE additives have 1 line to experiment, the resources only uses OQ,FL,PE and ANY master BE can max out the 1 exp line
7) Chefs have 4 lines to experiment with and use all the stats on many resources
8) Chefs spend many many millions of credits on skill tapes to enhance this experimentation and make better food
The point is the Chef and BE are not at all the same, and don't deserve the same profit for a finished product. Also BEs are not gods, its just a proffession like any other. In all honestly there is not even a need to rely on one in a game that you can this easily just grind BE yourself and make your own tissues.
For all the Chefs out there looking for BE schematics here is a bit of advice. Don't look for Master BE's, look for Master Chefs that are also BEs, they in general, are much easier to deal with, and don't expect millions of credits for a schematic they made in 1 minute and lost 0 resources on.
As for BE being so "hard" to master, come on it took me what three days?? cry me a river on that one.
Saitek
Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:17 am
#26
Let's simplify:
FACT 1: Chef's NEED BE's
FACT 2: BE's don't need Chef's
hmmm...Be thankful they charge as little as they do.
FACT 1: Chef's NEED BE's
FACT 2: BE's don't need Chef's
hmmm...Be thankful they charge as little as they do.