Chef Archive
Thread: Perspective: Why Chefs Have Taken So Long to Fix
Greatsails wrote:
I just think that this application of it is rather simplistic and limited.
Well the devs need simple. =) Just kidding!
Feel free to expand and make it not so simplistic and limited. It was an initial first pass meant to invite comments.
Perhaps a better way to rearrange the doc/chef buffs would be to let doc's keep long and stong buffs, but limit when and where they can apply them. Chef buffs are portable, but wouldn't last as long (Still think we need longer, but not doctor long) an not be as powerful. Keeping the Doc buffs from being a field-applied thing vs Chef-made edibles a portable, but lower level buff.
"They cannot "fix" chef without completely redoing the game."
I do disagree with this statement, simply because Chef food would need to have a significant impact on the game "at present" for any profession enhancement to have animpact on the game overall.
Meaning, right now, any one character is not significantly more powerful because they are using food. Yeah, sure it helps, but with all the arbitrary limitations (fullness, rare resources, etc) and relative difficulty in crafting the "best" Chef buffs, the benefit is marginal at best (especially when compared to Doctor buffs).
Lets take buff duration as an example. An easy, partial fix for Chefs would be up the durations on all foods by 100% (yes, I know most of us don't want this...its just an example). This would not have any considerable impact on the game as a whole, but centric to Chefs, this would be a profession-wide alteration.
Also, think of it this way. If currently the game has a serious deficiency in the buff department, thus affectingcharacter survivability, a Chef revamp is needed ASAP...not after they weigh the affects of such change.
So the question is, how close to balanced is the status quo?
Cyene
sigh, I hate knowing stuff that I can't talk about.
I will just say that they are already mostly done with the chef revamp...at least more than half way....and it isgoing in a different direction than you expect.
Couple things:
"All I'm saying is that everyone needs to exercise some patience. Chef is a support role. It can't be fixed until the thing it supports is fixed first. That day will come, just don't expect it in the very near future."
Not sure I understand the motivation of this statement, since the Chef forum is by far one of the most flame-free, patient, and understanding of the profession forums.
"Any impact to Chef buffing will have a trickle-down effect on every other part of combat mechanics. More buffed players equals easier kills, easiler missions, more money, inflation, etc. This is exactly what the Devs don't want. They hate inflation as it is. A game as complicated as this rests on a very delicate balance, and changing something has consequences."
I am not disagreeing with you on this aspect. I am just saying that this statement assumes a present "balance"exists. IMHO it is a very large assumption to saythat at present, the game isclose enough to balanced in the buff department that any changes would induce the so-called "trickle down effect". My contention is that currently the game is somewhatoff kilter and NEEDS the buff revamp that has taken so long to get there. You are saying a revamp will cause an imbalane, I'm saying an imbalance already exists and a revamp will go a long way in creating thebalance that we are currently lacking(without any other profession changes).
There have been numerous posts on this forum in days past that the devs could be much better served in the profession balance department by first balancing those professions that have the most impact on the game from a balance perspective (read-buffing professions).
I"s it therefore reasonable to expect that Chef will be balanced before these changes are completed? No"
I aslo disagree with this statement, especially considering it goes against information provided to us by SirVimes already. I personally think the next patch willpush at least some of the revamp out. In a recent post by JustG, he indicated that Chef was on the short list of 4 profressions who would be getting a considerable revamp in the next few patches (and that was 2 patches ago).
So my main point is that for any imbalance to exist AFTER the Chef revamp, there would of course have to be some semblance of balance at present. It is my contention that there is not.
Cyene
SirVimes wrote:
sigh, I hate knowing stuff that I can't talk about.
It's like beinga Dungeon Master and smiling as the PCs make an elaborate plan that you know will fail....
SirVimes wrote:
sigh, I hate knowing stuff that I can't talk about.
I will just say that they are already mostly done with the chef revamp...at least more than half way....and it isgoing in a different direction than you expect.
Good news: food and drink will now be able to be equipped and new eating and drinking animations will be impemented
Bad news: Food and drink buffs will be brought in line with what the devs believe to be the defining item that chefs make: Wedding Cake
Cyene wrote:
Not sure I understand the motivation of this statement, since the Chef forum is by far one of the most flame-free, patient, and understanding of the profession forums.
I agree with this. I'd take ita step further and say it's the best of all 33 in this department. I'm justdisheartened when Isee the "I'm quitting Chef cause TH said the class will suck for the forseeable future" posts. We have love coming. I know we do. Just a little longer is all.
I am not disagreeing with you on this aspect. I am just saying that this statement assumes a present "balance"exists. IMHO it is a very large assumption to saythat at present, the game isclose enough to balanced in the buff department that any changes would induce the so-called "trickle down effect". My contention is that currently the game is somewhatoff kilter and NEEDS the buff revamp that has taken so long to get there. You are saying a revamp will cause an imbalane, I'm saying an imbalance already exists and a revamp will go a long way in creating thebalance that we are currently lacking(without any other profession changes).
I think perhaps we just see balance in a different way. I'm only saying that the game has a balance now that natural game- and people-mechanics have created. Now whether that balance is the appropriate one or not is an issue for an entirely different post. I'm saying that the state of the game is the state of the game, and that a change to buffs will necessarily change that state, and change it in a big, but subtle, way.
The Devs have this problem: the game we play isn't even a remote approximation of the one they envisioned. Thanks to a couple of miscues on launch and since, they haven't been able to go directions with the game they wanted. Every time they've tried to put something back the way they originally wanted it, players have screamed bloody murder. For example, they intended to have ourcorpses retain our uninsured items after we clone, and that we travel out to get back both our items and on-hand cash. That feature was so badly bugged at launch that they took it out, and took it out so long that the balance of the game, the balance thatyou and I and every other players makes organically, would no longer support such a feature, and they have abadoned that utterly in favor of the decay we now have.
They have learned from this and are approaching changes with an eye toward getting it right the first time. That process just takes longer.
SirVimes says that they are about half done with their plans to change Chef. And I'm glad that he says they aren't going to go the direction we think (fix buffs). I've always thought that the solution to Chef was to go way outside the box. Spices and Enhancements suffice beautifully for the game now, balanced as we players have made it. It's significantly easier for the Devs to impliment a totally new thing than it is to try to fix something that will create all new balancing issues. We'll see how fast it comes out. I just know that the Devs have their foci, and I think that Chef is lower on the list of "things on which to focus" than we all wish it was.
The whole intent of my post was to show the ones who want to quit quit quit that they shouldn't be so rushed to do so, and to show why. My reasoning may be wrong in some of its facets, but the simple fact is that our love *is* in fact coming, and that we just need to be a little more patient. That's all.
Phew... wouldn't want our correspondent to be telling people "yeah man, one shot of food should give you buff for 24 hours - drink 2 and you should be good for a week!" 
Before the space expansion huh? That's gonna be a lot of Tat. Sunbun runs...
Cyene wrote:
"They cannot "fix" chef without completely redoing the game."
I do disagree with this statement, simply because Chef food would need to have a significant impact on the game "at present" for any profession enhancement to have animpact on the game overall.
Meaning, right now, any one character is not significantly more powerful because they are using food. Yeah, sure it helps, but with all the arbitrary limitations (fullness, rare resources, etc) and relative difficulty in crafting the "best" Chef buffs, the benefit is marginal at best (especially when compared to Doctor buffs).
Lets take buff duration as an example. An easy, partial fix for Chefs would be up the durations on all foods by 100% (yes, I know most of us don't want this...its just an example). This would not have any considerable impact on the game as a whole, but centric to Chefs, this would be a profession-wide alteration.
Also, think of it this way. If currently the game has a serious deficiency in the buff department, thus affectingcharacter survivability, a Chef revamp is needed ASAP...not after they weigh the affects of such change.
So the question is, how close to balanced is the status quo?
Cyene
Any impact to Chef buffing will have a trickle-down effect on every other part of combat mechanics. More buffed players equals easier kills, easiler missions, more money, inflation, etc. This is exactly what the Devs don't want. They hate inflation as it is. A game as complicated as this rests on a very delicate balance, and changing something has consequences.
Look at it this way:
- Why Buff? To last longer and be harder in combat.
- Does this mean that Chef foods factor into combat balancing? Of course.
- Do the Devs plan to utterly remake the combat engine from the ground up over the next 3 months? Yes.
- Is it therefore reasonable to expect that Chef will be balanced before these changes are completed? No.
Certainly the Devs are keeping buffs in mind as they revamp the combat system, but until they have the fundamental rules of a combat system in place, how can they address issues with things that shall modify those rules (ie. buffs)? Its like asking Milton Bradley to totally redo the game Monopoly starting with the Chance Cards, and leaving the balancing of street placement and property values for later. It doesn't make sense to do it that way.
They've said they are redesigning combat in stages, and that as those changes are implemented stage by stage, things will be out of whack. TH has said as much. But there's no way they can hope to balance buffs until *after* the fundamental combat system is in place and working "as intended."
All I'm saying is that everyone needs to exercise some patience. Chef is a support role. It can't be fixed until the thing it supports is fixed first. That day will come, just don't expect it in the very near future.