Chef Archive
Thread: Is it worth stock pileing fishack and glucose, or will its filling make it un-useable...
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PadreBook
Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:14 am
#14
The problem is the logistics of getting adequate amounts of BE additives to make runs of the 'good' Vasarian Brandy and/or Breath of Heaven. Not looking good so far.
Padre
Padre
Numen
Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:45 am
#15
GalinHawk wrote:
ooBoBoo - There was a post by SirVimes titles something like "forget Fishak - bring on Vasarian Brandy" or something like that. His work on TC came up with the following:
Adding a medium "filling" BE enhancement (or was it a light? I figure that was too good to be true) droped the filling on the Brandy from 40 to about 15. At a filling of 15, you can take 6 of them before you're full. At a buff of about +150, you would get +900 to all mind stats. This was with (he said) resources he could find, and nothing very good. I would hazzard a guess that better resources could easily add a 20% improvement, which would bring it up to about +1,200. (as proof to this: Making Fishak with average reactive gas gives an upper bonus limit of about +470 while "good" gas will get you +550 - a 17% improvement)
But even if not, +900 to all mind stats for 30 minutes is better than +1200 to mind and +600 to Focus for 15 minutes followed by 30 minutes of down time simply because you will regenerate mind at a crazy fast rate AND your specials will be cheaper to use.
First that post is out of date. All calculations in it are with a 25ish filling for Brandy. This has been changed to about 50.
Best guesses for Brandy is 300-400 all mind stats for the max.(I have seen people say the range is 100-150 or 150-200, I don't have proof one way of the other, 150-160 is being made on TC so I go with that as a possible stat). With medium additive the stats seem to be 80-120% bonus in nutrition or 40-60% decrease in filling. That is either to the final product or just the base effect. So either a 200 point bonus or a 300-400point bonus.
That is still maxing out at around 800 on all stats. Maybe 1000 if you can get filling down to 20, but with that low of a filling I would expect the buff size around 750 when drinking 5 of them.
Those are using the current number of 50 filling. If the devs take it back to 25, just double that amount, but you will be going through twice as many pieces.
sciguyCO
Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:29 pm
#16
Sorry, I sort of meant to add a smiley to the end of that "give chefs more time" comment, it wasn't really serious.
The main point of downtime is really a part of just about any MMOG's business plan: reduce the speed that players can advance to the next point of interest, get theirnext levelorget through the dungeon and customers have to keep their subscriptions longer to see the "next cool thing". Longer subscriptions= more money. Of course, if the downtime is too much, people get frustrated with not being able to make any advancement, and they quit.
The filling/duration/power ratios of the new menu appears to be internally consistent, although whether or not the power levels are sufficient for what people want to do is still up in the air. The old foods are going to be out of whack with the new design, simply because of their having to be crammed into a new set of rules. The filling percentages of the old foods are probably going to stay the same, but the changed digestion rate means that instead of having an empty stomach immediately after the Fishak wears off, there'll be some residual filling. You'll definitely be able to drink a second one immediately after the first wears off, and probably a third when the second wears off, but after that you'll have to wait. I'm pretty sure you could run into downtime with the old foods, but generally not with the big sellers (since they tended to be popular at least partly because of their relatively long duration). When I was out hunting for meat or hide (never anything real high level), I'd generally use Vayerbok to keep my health up, and ran into a few instances where I'd be too full when re-buffing.
The other thing that'll make this a rough transition is that these new buffs were designed to mesh with the new combat system, which isn't going to show up until publish 7 at the earliest (this one is Pub6). Since special attacks will be subtracted from pools differently than they are now, the devs probably figured that pool buffs could be reduced. Of course, if you're still dealing with mobs that smack you for 1500 Mind damage at a time, the revamp isn't going help you much.
If you stick to buffs with 30m+ duration, there won't be any downtime with the new system. And it may be possible to stagger your eating/drinking so that you have 3-4 buffs applied at once, even if the individual filling is 50.
I think the days of chefs being thebig stat buffers are gone, ceding that to doctors, dancers, and musicians. Well, ok, they were always better, but now even more so. Food will always be more portable and available, but the raw power is gone. I'm hoping the skill buffs and special effects (incap time reduction, damage reduction, etc) make up for that. Or that the promised analysis of food once this goes live causes the devs to beef up the stat buffs and/or reduce the filling.
DashZero
Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:07 pm
#17
sciguyCO wrote:
I think the days of chefs being thebig stat buffers are gone, ceding that to doctors, dancers, and musicians. Well, ok, they were always better, but now even more so
Oddly enough...thats not the way I recall it. I seem to recall a point in time where doctors healed and dancers and musicians danced and played. I dont think they buffed better when they didnt even have buff capability.
ooBoBoo
Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:07 am
#18
sciguyCO wrote:
What downtime? About 80% of the foods have a duration longer than their digestion time, and most of the stat buffs have a minimum time of 30m, so even a 100% filling item would be digested.
I'm not sure about downtime being "fun", but I can think of a few good arguments for it
1) It rewards planning and tactical thinking. If you can't havebe buffed 100% of the time, how do you decide when to take it? And how does this fit in with leaving stomach room for "emergency" foods like Blue Milk (mind heal) or Flameout (90% damage reduction for 5 hits, but filling of 90+).
2) It allows chefs time to breath. If you're eating/drinking at a constant rate, someone has to have factories churning out food at that same rate. Slow down the consumption rate, and chefs just might have time to do non-food related activities.
3) It balances potentially over-powered foods. If you could have Flameout on constantly, you'd have the equivalent of a second suit of resistance-sliced composite armor over the top of whatever else you're wearing without the encumberance cost.
If your definition of "fun" is being uber all the time and having little or no challenge, downtime definitely sucks. If your definitioin of fun is succeeding despite the challenges inherent in the system, downtime adds to the difficulty, making things more interesting. Most people are probably somewhere between those two, leaning one way sometimes, then the other.
That downtime was still there in the old system, it was just harder to pin down since the foods didn't display their filling, and the reduction in the fill bar over time was hard to gauge (because it only refreshed when you ate something). I think that "+1200 to mind and +600 to Focus for 15 minutes followed by 30 minutes of down time" mentioned by GalinHawk was almost referring to the old system (probably a Fishak/Bivoli/Ice cream combo), although I think 30m is a bit high.
There is plenty of challendge in what I do. Even with good mind foods, i have to plan and time my attacks. Try to pull on mob without pulling many, but, alway be preapared for the worst was one aspect to tatics. Even with that, I make trips to the cloning center. Anyone who does Night Sisters (solo)and Krayts (grouped) can confirm this.
There is no downtrime with the old system. When your buff wore off (I would time them using /addinalarm), you could eat more food. I'm not sure what you mean about downtime in the old system.
ooBoBoo
Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:33 am
#19
sciguyCO wrote:
What downtime? About 80% of the foods have a duration longer than their digestion time, and most of the stat buffs have a minimum time of 30m, so even a 100% filling item would be digested.
I'm not sure about downtime being "fun", but I can think of a few good arguments for it
1) It rewards planning and tactical thinking. If you can't havebe buffed 100% of the time, how do you decide when to take it? And how does this fit in with leaving stomach room for "emergency" foods like Blue Milk (mind heal) or Flameout (90% damage reduction for 5 hits, but filling of 90+).
2) It allows chefs time to breath. If you're eating/drinking at a constant rate, someone has to have factories churning out food at that same rate. Slow down the consumption rate, and chefs just might have time to do non-food related activities.
3) It balances potentially over-powered foods. If you could have Flameout on constantly, you'd have the equivalent of a second suit of resistance-sliced composite armor over the top of whatever else you're wearing without the encumberance cost.
Forgot to answer your other points.
Your third point about Flameout being over-powered. There is a case for lowering the power of the buff. Not adding dull-boring downtime.
Your second point is about the worst argument. To give chefs more time to play, SOE creates thousands of hours of player downtime a day, so you can get out more often. Sorry, but that isn't going to get a sympathetic response from most players. Tha answer is to get more Master Chefs, and that should be happening with the end of the ridiculous holo grinding. Barely anyone stayed a master long enough to get any good at it and create a customer base. Hopefully this will change.
Message Edited by ooBoBoo on 02-10-2004 03:37 PM
Opar
Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:12 am
#20
Is it just me or didn't I see a post from either SirVimes or someone else of credibility stating that old food/drink will work EXACTLY the same way, including filling? 
Has anyone here actually tested out taking a fishak on test center, and checking if you could pop another one in 10 min or whatever the current filling is on 'em <close to 10 or 11min if i remember correctly>, I know that as it stands I can be under the influence of 2 fishak for a small overlap period.
Or did everyone just assume that it will fill you up with a huge downtime before you can pop another?
PS> Didn't I also see a post stating that Vasarian brandy and some other foods had their filling doubled?
Thanks,
Chef Opar
DiceDuP
Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:27 am
#21
I still feel that if the new foods are designed to work in sync with the new combat system, then the new foods should'nt come into play until that new system arrives. That's just like eating the bun before you cook the burger 
If this is the case, as i've stated before, then we should be left with some of the old foods, slightly revamped for filling, until the new combat system arrives. How can we sell food now that doesn't fit in with the current system? - Start telling people to stock up now because it will be good to use in a couple of months? pfft!
I got chef in a holo, my last one before silent. I enjoyed it so much after the endless grinding I decided to keep it. It would be a shame to see chefs completely reduced to holo-chefs who only make food as a master to get their credits back up and then drop it.
Jimbob
Master Chef - Chimeara-Europe
ooBoBoo
Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:29 am
#22
Bingo!!!!
DiceDuP wrote:
I still feel that if the new foods are designed to work in sync with the new combat system, then the new foods should'nt come into play until that new system arrives. That's just like eating the bun before you cook the burger
/cheer DiceDuP
TylaSraedie
Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:19 am
#23
Opar wrote:Has anyone here actually tested out taking a fishak on test center, and checking if you could pop another one in 10 min or whatever the current filling is on 'em (close to 10 or 11min if i remember correctly), I know that as it stands I can be under the influence of 2 fishak for a small overlap period.Or did everyone just assume that it will fill you up with a huge downtime before you can pop another?PS> Didn't I also see a post stating that Vasarian brandy and some other foods had their filling doubled?
I'd be interested in an answer for these two questions as well.
PSKstang
Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:38 am
#24
SV used a tat sunburn from the crate and it was fine. It had a filling of I believe 39 and I am assuming the same duration. I imagine the pre patch food follows the same laws as the new food. Vasarian Brandy did have its filling just about doubled, but the devs said they were doing this so that perhaps in the future they would bring it back down. Better to have a small buff and go up, then have an awesome buff and get nerfed.
short-order-cook
Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:20 am
#25
heh, im just hoping the prepatch foods will become rares..
"what? you want to buy a crate of fishak from me for 3 mil?"
hehe
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