CUEmu - Thread Posts

LostBoyJim

Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:26 pm

This is a thread for chefs to discussion different pricing options. I know BE's have very valid concerns about your additives. Pleas let this thread for us to ponder solutions.

I have seenatwo very differentapproaches to how to price items for chefs. What do you think of each of these types of pricing, and general pricing within each type?

Pricing based on flat CPU of total materials. CPU has ranged from a low of 12 cpu to a high of 25 cpu.

Comparison: Blue Milk 5(casks) == 190 resources * 12-25 cpu == 2280-4750cr

Comparison:Vasarina Brandy 8 (casks) == 235 resources * 12-25 cpu = 2820-5878cr

Comparison: Vegeparsine 2 == 100 resources * 12-25 cpu = 1200 - 2500 cr

DISCUSSION: The biggest resource here is for the CASK, not for the food itself. Drinks are much much more expensive than food, just for casks. Vegeparsine is by FAR the most difficult to make, yet is the cheapest.

Pricing based on price per SERVING. This completely ignores the total ingredients. Price is fixed on what the customer will pay for a single use.

Comparison: Blue Milk 5(casks) == 300/serving = 1500 cr

Comparison:Vasarina Brandy 8 (casks) == 500/serving = 4000 cr

Comparison: Vegeparsine 2 == 1500/serving =3000 cr

DISCUSSION: Better, because you can set the price/serving to be reasonable based on quality of what you produce. Plus you can raise/lower prices easily with demand.

Mayhew Grelika, MBE

Zhor

Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:40 pm

#2

I base all my foods except brandy (cause of need atm) at a flat CPU. I charge 5-10 CPU. It all depends on the food. Some basic foods, 5 CPU. Foods that require components, more advanced stuff, 10 CPU. I still think it looks expensive as well to myself. Didn't realise people charge 12-25 CPU

That's my pricing scheme and it seems to make others and myself happy.

All gone. Nothing to see now. Bye Bye Ahazi most of you guys were cool

SkinnyDoc

Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:47 pm

#3

Chef is my first artisian profession, so i have no real experience about pricing. What i was thinking about was using some sort of scale based on the stats of the food. For instance if i make a food and it is at the max values for nutrition, filling, etc... i'll charge the max cr per resource, say 10. But if it is has the worst stats, then charge the lowest value, say 4 cr per resource. Anything in between would be figured out on a pct of max values.

Any suggestions on credit scale? 5 to 10? 5 to 15? Any would factory made items add extra cost, since the cost of the factory run would be taken into account.

Dantu

Naritus server

O-o-D, citizen of Rebirth on Talus

Dantu Whitesun - TKM/Swordsman/Retired Mayor of Rebirth on Talus

sciguyCO

Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:52 pm

#4

One thing I think is important when discussing containers:

Is the additional 140 gems + 2 trim worth it when you can sell for 2x to 2.5x the price (still a bargain to the consumer who's getting 3x the doses)? For something like, I don't know, Deuterium Pyro maybe not. For brandy (which seems to go for at least 1500 to 2k with small glasses), I think it would be.

Personally, I don't think either of those would work well alone. From our point of view, the cpu determines our base cost (well, that and factory time). From a customer's point of view, they're looking at how many times they can use the food/drink, and how large /useful the effect is. Maybe a mix? 5 cpu + Factor * doses? The "Factor" would be some multiplier that takes into account how powerful the buff is, how much in demand, etc. Maybe needless complication.

/sigh

And this is why I left the pricing to other people. I suck at it.

Kriles Ch'artoff , Chilastra server
Master Chef (retired)
Currently doing....stuff

Culhwch

Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:25 pm

#5

sciguyCO wrote:
One thing I think is important when discussing containers:

Is the additional 140 gems + 2 trim worth it when you can sell for 2x to 2.5x the price (still a bargain to the consumer who's getting 3x the doses)? For something like, I don't know, Deuterium Pyro maybe not. For brandy (which seems to go for at least 1500 to 2k with small glasses), I think it would be.

Personally, I don't think either of those would work well alone. From our point of view, the cpu determines our base cost (well, that and factory time). From a customer's point of view, they're looking at how many times they can use the food/drink, and how large / useful the effect is. Maybe a mix? 5 cpu + Factor * doses? The "Factor" would be some multiplier that takes into account how powerful the buff is, how much in demand, etc. Maybe needless complication.

/sigh

And this is why I left the pricing to other people. I suck at it.

Needless complication -- LOL!!! You should see my spreadsheet! Trying to come up with a formula that takes into account buff size, length of time, and filling has been really fun (I mean it, I like math

). And that's just the stat buffs. I think the skill buffs may be a little easier, but it's all still a work in progress (formulas are changing almost daily, still).

Doshic Slitherin, Master Chef, Master Merchant
Owner/Operator of Boffo Foods
(Kestrel -75, -4028; Coronet: 972, -4636)

Rowles

Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:18 pm

#6

I've been pricing my brandy on a per/use scale. It seems to be selling okay, I price crates of +208/10 useregular for 55k and crates of +384/10 useenhanced for 115k. I have no idea if this is high or low on my server. The whole price per unit thing makes my head hurt, so I've been pricing other stuff on a per use also that I just kinda pulled outta my hat. If it sells at that price, I leave it there. If it doesn't, I'll lower the price. I'd really like to see a per/use spreadsheet made if someone out there is feeling ambitious.

Emeralde - Master Chef Naritus

Magicman_33

Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:52 pm

#7

Ok, heres the skinny on my pricing. I charge on a per use basis, and do the price computation that way. Then I see what that comes up too on a per unit basis. If i think a +11 to dodge is worth 100 cred/use then i figure that price that way, then if i see that pricing that way comes up to 2.5 cpu on the resources, then i decide that i shouldnt sell that.

Summary, i set the price on a per use basis, then make sure its a good cpu resource price as well.

My thoughts too the people who price solely on resources used is this.

If you assume 7 cpu (to cover the 3-5 cpu you paid for or could get for the resources, to cover your factory and vendor costs and still make a little profit, maybe)

A stack of gorrnar and a stack of blue milk (small glass) should both get you 4 uses.

Gorrnar == 66 resource units and costs 462c.

Blue Milk == 25 resource units and would cost 175c.

I dont know about you, but I think a 360 mind heal is worth ALOT more than 15% wound reduction when cloning.

Its Simple Economics folks ( I should know as a MBA student currently taking a Econ Class), SUPPLY AND DEMAND, sell your stuff at whatever price will sell it all AS FAST (but not alot faster) than you can make it.

If your putting up 40 crates of something (a full 100 run) and it sells in two hours, and your vendor is out for 24 - 36 hours until you can get another batch through, then your selling it too cheaply and losing potential profit.

(BUT MAGICMAN, you say. I just want to make it and sell it and i dont care about profit.)

Thats fine too, its your perogitive, but your probably the same people complaining that people endlessly spam you asking when your next batch and done and following you to your factories trying to get a jump.

Of course i have that problem sometimes and i price what i feel is relatively high. Maybe its not high enough.

AnitaSWG

Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:47 pm

#8

I start out by looking at the cost of the resources used, mark that up, then evaluate it on a 'how valuable a buff does this seem to be' basis. I then come up with a round per use price, and go with that. Some of the odder items I price on the low side so people will give them a try.

Brandy is a special case.. I started out by looking at what doctor's charge for their buffs (2K per stat for 3 hours). That works out to 500 credits for 45 minutes. Their buffs are larger of course, but on the other hand, entertainers are harder to find than doctors, and apparently you need both a dancer and a musician for full buffs. I thought about it and priced my initial runs of +208/40 minute brandy at 500cr per use. When I did my first BE enhanced run, I re-evaluated the costs (I make my own tissues with a 2nd account). I couldn't just double the non-enhanced price because that was way too high. So, I decided to charge 500 per use for BE, and drop my non BE to 250 per use.So a crate made using casks (21 use) comes to 262,500.

Part of me thinks that is still too high, but another part of me realizes that 21 uses x 25 in a crate comes to 525 uses, and 350 hours of buffs. If someone plays 3 hours per day, the brandy will last over 3 months. Halving those numbers if they double up. So, either way, they won't be needing any more brandy for quite some time. My other concern with pricing too low is having someone come buy me out and resell it for some crazy price at the Coronet starport. For that reason I'm keeping my stock levels low, and not advertising on the map. I'd prefer to be a little corner cafe that only a few people know about - easier to keep my sanity.

I haven't figured out the prices for BE enhanced other products because I haven't made any yet. As much as I'd like to do a formula based on duration, buff size and phase of the moon, I know it'll just give me a headache.

I'll just simplify it, make sure I'm covering costs on the rarer resources, and be happy with that. And of course sell at a steep discount or better to friends.

:+: In Good Taste ~ Keren/Naboo ~ 1180, 3720 :+:Ri'a Ocoli ~ *Cancelled*Saori Eiwaki ~ *Cancelled* Jaira Zelona ~ *Cancelled*

Ja-van

Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:45 pm

#9

Since I am specializing in BE brandy and BE accaragm, my calculation is pretty simple

Fishak was selling a 65k a crate. +570 mind only buff 8 usage for 14 mins. total crate buff time 2800 mins

BE Brandy +400 ALL mind50fil, 34 mins, 21 usages. Effective buff 800 with 10 usages, Total crate buff time 8500 mins

Basically a little over 3 times longer buff factor plus a higher total buff with willpower and focus thrown in. I should be able 195k a crate based on previous demand, but I am selling it for 175k a crate. I am actually wondering if this is even enough, but I am hoping all of these expenses ( about 5 mil in the hole right now with more expenses coming before I see any profits) are justchange over costsand resources in production/waiting to be produced. Needless to say I am starting to get worried. BTW I am not a new chef I have 6 factories so these expenses are not a new chef having to buy everything to get started. It is the resources, BE schematics and trim. I currently have 2 full runs of brandy cooking and all of the associated subs running.

Denoby Master Chef

Tierra

Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:48 am

#10

I start my calculations with how much they cost me to produce on a flat cpu basis, obviously for drinks this is always much higher (i use casks). Then I take into account whether i added any BE enhancements and how much they either cost me to buy.

I then tweak the prices a little depending on gut feeling... particularly with the brandy..

Now the chef a couple of posts up made the valid point of supply and demand. It just isnt good to have an empty vendor, not just in terms of business but in terms of your reputation. However (big however here), where exactly do you draw the line? BE brandy on Eclipse is currently being sold between 250 and 300k per crate (in my case of casks, i assume the others are using casks too.) My last batch was priced at 275k, the tissues i had made myself were particularly good but used an avian meat with a market value of 130 cpu. At 275k, the brandy I put on my vendor sold within 5 minutes to a guy who had been camping (yes, literally) my vendor for 3 whole days. From what I understand of the chefs charging 300k per crate, they are still selling out in minutes. So do we raise to 350k? 400k per crate? I dont think 350k would slow the demand. Im not entirely sure 400k would.

In the meantime, people are seeing how much we charge for foods and are intrigued about the profit margins on that. It doesnt take them long to poke around on the boards, talk to a few bio-engineers and work out how much things cost to produce. Result? for one, we're being flooded with new chefs who are mastering in 2 days flat. Sure this may ease the demand on the brandy and new novelty foods, but in the longterm, its not that great (although *hopefully* many will get bored). Secondly, the odd person is posting about the kind of profit margins we make on the server boards and people see us as price gouging morons. Suddenly any reputation you can have as enjoying chef and doing it for the love of the profession starts to go out of the window.

So where does the line get drawn? Im getting harassing tells day in and day out about when I will be restocking. I try my best to be polite to people but some people start to get down right rude. Ive been accused of not stocking my vendors, of actually lying when i have told them the vendor is restocked and they arrive too late to find everything sold, Ive had people buying custom orders (all of which are placed into bags with the customers name on) from my vendor just in case there is brandy in there and the list goes on. I dont want a reputation for being one of those people who has a vendor registered on the planetary map, people travel there and then find it almost empty (we've all been there and I bet most people have cursed the crafter to hell and back.) Equally I dont want a reputation as a price gouger who just wants to milk every last credit out of my customers.

Im in full sympathy with anyone finding it hard to price this new stuff... im groaning everytime i have to restock my vendor. Id love to hear peoples takes on this and how they deal with it, particularly people who have a good reputation and are have been well known on their servers for a long time.

Kind Regards,

Tally, Master Chef of Eclipse

ecp

Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:09 am

#11

I dont think you guys want to know what is going on at our server(bloodfin). Our server is usually a little higher priced than most servers all around, I dont know why but it is. Fishaks at around 560-590 used to go from 100k-130k a crate. I was basing my prices off those numbers. Figuring that it was twice as good, only around +800 instead of ~+550 but you get that 800 in focus and willpower too, and lasted about three times as long I figured 250k was a fair price from the markets past. Before i could throw stuff up on the vendor ppl were biding on crates up to 350-400k, so i put a bunch at 350k, all sold within 45min. I go away for the weekend to come back to seeing it going for 600k a crate O_o. So i said what the heck, ill put mine at 525k since it sells pretty quickly, and it did. Bloodfin has inflated prices on almost all items except for arch stuff(go figure huh?) so i wasnt so surprised to see it rise quickly.

In terms of BE drinks requiring alot of resources, yeah they do, but you dont need good materals for the large majority of it.

chEf-medical vendors, i dont know!@?!@!@?!
imps make baby jesus cry.
'professional wookie killer'

Ophistes

Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:27 am

#12

I started BE Brandy at 175k and lowered the price to 130k now. I am using the formula someone posted somewhere (sorry ): (Buff*stacksize*duration)/Filling - works for me for the buffs.

Otherwise I charge what I think would be a fair price per use (checking that the cpu won't leave me working at a loss ). A stack of six Kanali Wafers goes for 300 for example (6.5 summing cpu).

Ophistes Ceimined= Chef and Musician =
= The singing frog =
"I suppose you're entitled to your own delusions." --Threepio

jason67

Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:09 am

#13

I know you guys requested only Chef's post here but after reading this thread I would like to add some imput as both a Major Consumer of your products(old and new) and Doc having experience in mass sales.

While a calculation based on (charges*power/10, for meds) seems to work for most Docs, I don't think a similar calculation will work for Chefs. Your foods typically vary too much in what they accomplish for this kind of pricing scheme. I think the only real way to work out prices is to find the Fair Market value per container on your server and price accordingly. The best way to do this is to communicate with your client base. Find out what they are willing to pay, what they think is a decent price and what they think is outrageous. I would say if you are willing to custom fill orders then base it on this pricing scheme and then let the client decide if they would like more charges or a bigger buff, etc... This is not only much simpler for the Chef to work with(and much easier to adjust prices to current market value) but it's also much easier for the customers to understand as well and for custom orders makes it much more user friendly for the client who has a slightly different need than your mass consumers(ie, for me I prefer a huge buff over charges with a 50% or less filling as I'm usually a PvP'er, whereas your normal everyday player is a PvE'er and probably would prefer more charges).

So if you determine your brandy is worth say 8k per unit then a crate of 25 would run the consumer 200k. And depending on the consumer this may mean he gets lets say 12 hits per unit and a total buff of 400+ meaning an 800+ buff stacked(300 hits total per crate), or he may be getting the 200+power with 25hits 400+total buff stacked(625 hits total). Both of these very different crates cost the same but for different purposes(oh and figures aren't exact so don't flame based on that please, this is only an example).

This is personally how I would like to see things priced by Chefs and I imagine it would make it much easier for you guys as well. You then also have the flexability to adjust your unit price based on current market(demand) and based on your quality of product obviously premium prices for the highest quality stuff. I imagine the general price range would go from somewhere in the range of 2k(non enhanced/poor quality)-15k(enhanced/casked/etc...) per unit depending on quality of products being produced and if they are casked or not(sure wish barrels were working).

Typically if you can't keep it in stock then your prices are too low, and if you aren't moving any your prices are too high. Be sure not to burn yourself out because you priced too low and demands are just too much for you. Make it fun and equitable for everyone involved. I've seen too many Docs try to price things too low and just get burned out because the demand was too high for them to maintain long term at those prices. It's ok to charge alot for a premium item, just make sure it's high quality and in line with the current market value and most people won't worry about the prices. Obviously prices will vary from server to server so you will need to find the Fair Market value on YOUR server.

Feedback?

Hostageh

Valcyn

Master Doc/Master Rifleman

HostageH
Master Lightsaber /3003Enhancer /4100Healer /0044Defender
/0044Force Reflexes /Master Force Combat

Arisa
MasterWeaponsmith(125exp/130assembly/25repair/22weapons repair) /MasterArtisan(14pt) /MasterShipwright /4400Force Crafting
Vendor Location 2355, -3922 just outside Coronet

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Thread: CHEF FOOD PRICING DISCUSSION (Chefs only please)