Carbineer Archive
Thread: is master carbineer with the bh carbine tree > master pistoleer with the bh pistol tree?
I'd say so, but then again my opinion is biased. If you ask the same thing on the pistoleer forum they will probably tell you that they are much better.
I've never been beaten by a pistoleer in PvP, I've never even been significantly damaged by a pistoleer in PvP. They have no states they can apply or a KD (that is useful), all they can do is straight damage, and a carbine can outdamage a pistol any day. Yes they can do stun damage, but it's AP0 and if you have stun layered composite on all it really does it tickle a bit. Yes they have eyeshot, but I would be willing to bet that scattershot does similar mind damage to eyeshot, if not on a standing target, most certainly when they are KDed.
If you are just simply looking for the best PvP build though why limit yourself to these two choices, you might as well just go Rifleman.
You get enough accuracy in the BH trees and you can get a smattering of specials and state resists from each. I assume you have no interest in LLC since you were going master + a tree. With BH Pistols and Carbines IV, you'll have good accuracy and with +5 attachments enough speed to cap most weapons with all specials. After that, you can pick and choose from the trees to decide what specials you want. I recommend the state resists/stopping shot/fan shot/geonosian tree from pistoleer and accuracy/cripple shot from carbineer, but other than that it's pretty much open. If you don't want to mess around with attachments the first boxes of each of the speed trees will do it.
After the combat rebalance, it might be a different story, but with the dabbler template you'll be able to pick one and go for it pretty easily if the situation changes.
To answer the original question, well, as always, it depends on your play-style and onwhat you're trying to achieve. I've tried both templates.
For PvP, Master Pistoleer + BH Pistols is far superior to Master Carbineer + BH Carbines, for the following reasons:
- Pistoleer gives you the Geo sonic blaster cert, andtherefore stun damage.
- The BH pistols treegives you Eyes Sot which is a very, very powerful PvP shot when fired with a Geo blaster. And no, Scatter Shot is not nearly as effective as Eye Shot, and Eye Shot does not tickle.
- A Master Pistoleer has dodge and much better state, posture change, kd and melee defenses than a Master Carbineer.
- Generally speaking, the carbineer's "signature attack"--dizzy + kd or posture change--is not very effective in PvP, because many PvPers are defense stackers with very strong defenses vs. dizzy and kd. Even someone who is not a defense stacker can neutralize a carbineer's best attacks by popping a Thakitillo.
As a pistoleer with BH pistols, I managed to achieve a draw in a duel with a friend of mine who is Master TK + Master Fencer (we literally incapped each other at the same time). This was before I mastered pistoleer and reached the speed cap, and on that particular day I wasn't wearing my stun armor. I was using a decent Geo blaster, and my friend was using a good stun baton.This is a result I could only dream of as a Master Carbineer + BH Carbines, when I was an easy prey for any and all TK's.
When it comes to PvE, I've come to the conclusion that a Master Carbineer + BH carbines is most useful in the crowd control, damage dealer, and supportroles--which are actually the intended roles for the carbineer profession. The idea with this template is to try andkeep your opponents at bay for as long as possibleusing area kd, dizzy and posture change attacks, and then finish them off using Crippling shot before they start hurting you with melee attacks. Obviously, this strategy works best when you're part of a group, with tanks distracting your targets.
Crippling shotmakes you anoutstanding damage dealerwhen fired at the speed cap, and it will make you very popular in a Krayt hunting group, for example.
But, again, the key is toapply states toyour opponents and cripple them before they start hitting you with melee attacks. If you can't do that, well, there's no dishonor in using burst run and kiting tactics 
.
A Pistoleer with BH pistols can't kill nearlyas fast as a carbineer with BH carbines (this is especially true against opponents with medium armor). However, he is a much better tank, and he can inflict fire and bleed dots, which always help.
Cartouche
Message Edited by Cartouche on 06-07-2004 07:01 PM
Message Edited by Cartouche on 06-07-2004 07:05 PM
Message Edited by Cartouche on 06-08-2004 08:46 AM
Geo blaster: lets be generous and say it is 200 - 500 damage
mitigation 3: 200 - 320
so eyeshot (3x modifier) against an unarmored target does 600 - 960 damage.
600 - 960 vs PvP 75% reuction = 150 - 240
150 - 240 vs 45% PSG = 82.5 - 132
82.5 - 132 vs AR1 = 41.25 - 66
41.25 - 66 vs 36% stun armor = 26.4 - 42.24
HAHAHA that tickles.
Not that I would do much better, but geo blasters only do damage against noobs who don't wear stun layered armor.
Message Edited by Kaelle_DB on 06-08-2004 09:46 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Any profession that relies on stun damage to be effective in PvP is a waste of time.
On Valcyn, anyone who's anyone and is PvPing wears 38% stun armor, imp PSG's sliced to almost 60% stun effectiveness and synthsteak. When you combine all those things, on top of RDM3 a Geonosian Sonic Blaster is like a gnat. I know, but cause I've done both profs.
Yes, with BH pistols, and master Pistoleer, with a nice Geno pistol you can kick alot of butt, if you're fighting people that are either:
A: Unprepared. (You're ganking overt people in either the IMP outpost on Dant, or Anchorhead.)
or,
B: New to PvP. (They just mastered their first prof, and are all set to PvP but don't really have any idea as to the intricacies involved.)
However. With master Carbs, and BH carbs you have the ability to basically make an entire team of PvP'rs cry.
It's really a decision that needs to be made, based on what you wanna do with your time. You wanna kill people that aren't ready for you? Or do you want to actively participate in the Galactic Civil War as a member of a team, and totally destroy your opposition?
Up to you. I know which one I picked.