Carbineer Archive
Thread: Carbines suck? Not for long......
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CyberData4
Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:33 pm
#1
Ok, here is my problem. I'm need some advice. I'm trying to build a combat support character. My main character is a Master Commando / Master Teras Kasi. He is what I play when my P.A. is going on raids and needs a tank / dmg dealer.
So, since I have a second account I want to build my alt as a combat support character. Someone who mostly concentrates on keeping others alive while also having some fun myself 
I have Master Doctor, so I can buff / cure states. I'm wondering what would be a good, solid combat profession that would fill in the combat support I need. I'm not trying to be "uber", but I want to be able to hold my own. And since I'm not going to be stacking carbineer with any other professions like bounty hunter or anything else. I ask the following:
Do carbineers really suck? I don't think so, I think it's more of how you play them, but with the combat changes coming up I think they might actually be really good. I don't want to be a rifleman since, well....I just don't like rifles. As just a master carbineer...will I be able to hold my own in PvP? Is it a good profession to add to doctor?
Eldudorino
Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:57 pm
#3
Heres my take-
I was a doc/carbineer before they ever fixed most of our specials, pre chargeshot nerf days.
In current PvP, you will be toast with that template, simply because of speed, lack of defense mods, and lack of raw damage output because of armor and mitigation. You'd probably do best hanging in back of the front lines, protecting other docs and the wounded as they run in and out. For solo PvP you will not be very good, but its a decent PvE combo at least, provided you have good guns, I used to use krayted and speed sliced laser carbines.
With the combat balance, Im hoping carbineer gets alot of love, but until then I'm personally going BH hybrid...
AdmiralSpy
Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:03 pm
#4
CyberData4 wrote:
Do carbineers really suck?
No, heh, we don't. Carbineer is rather balanced and in the middle, where it should be. As mentionned in the FAQ, our strengths include a large variety of state specials which are important in both PvP and PvE. Mainly area attacks, these are particularly great for large group PvP.
Since you're a Doctor, the HAM costs won't bother you, so that alone removes one of our biggest weaknesses. Our few damage types does imply that some things will downright be hard to kill, and the fact that high-level MOBs and good PvPers are immune to our specials does make us seem bad, or downright 'sucky'. We are weak in high-end content, and our speeds without SEAs are somewhat ridiculous (+60 at master.)
That said, Carbineer is just plain fun.
One of the best support templates that you can get is however Carbineer/Doctor. One, you're a Doc. Simple as that. 
Two, you can use FullAutoArea to apply a variety of states to others in PvP, and if you can manage to stay away from the front lines, you'll be having a lot of fun.
Carbineer isn't 'easy', though. I've done all combat professions, and I feel Carbineer to be the one which requires the most 'alertness' and tactics, simply because we don't dish out raw damage. We set up people for a kill. Stun them, blind them, Dizzy them, KD them. We can hit them hard if they are KDd - but if they aren't, we die. And fast. Our lack of defenses means we almost always get hit. Even with buffs and armor, if a melee'r gets within range of you, your best chance is to run away.
Carbineer/Doctor was one of the most loved PvP templates sometime back, but the way PvP has evolved including armor and foods, it's a good "support support" combo.. but it's not an active support mix. If that makes any sense, heh.
piezo
Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:16 pm
#5
IMO carbineer is where balance SHOULD be. I've been both rifleman, and carbineer, and i can honestly say that rifle kicks the crap out of carbineer. Hands down. You can be on top of your game with awesome guns, armor, and skill bonuses...know all your specials and use them correctly...and an afk rifleman can kill you with hs3 spam from a jawa. Rifle just shoots so much harder, with a better dmg type, more accurately, and usually FASTER too.
I'm guessing the combat balance will help, but how knows.
EisMan_Buckeye
Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:08 pm
#6
"IMO carbineer is where balance SHOULD be."
That, I agree with.
"You can be on top of your game with awesome guns, armor, and skill bonuses...know all your specials and use them correctly...and an afk rifleman can kill you with hs3 spam from a jawa."
That, I disagree with. With 39% stun armor and a 34-40% stun PSG, the jawa ion rifle is no threat whatsoever. And if they switch to a T21, I throw on my 80% energy helmet and chest plate. The only downside is that I don't have any AAs for that helmet yet, so I drop to +82 speed and I loose +4 worth of accuracy while moving. With so many rifleman FOTM on my server, I have been forced to adapt, counteracting many of their strengths. I may not allways be able to take them out, but I can at least hold my own, and take a draw if neccessary. The only way a rifleman poses a real threat to me anymore is if they are also a CM.
piezo
Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:35 pm
#7
Well, be it a jawa, laser rifle, dxrb, or t21, the average rifleman's rifle damage is FAR higher than ours. I know that as a rifleman, when someone resisted the jawa, i pulled out the dxrb, which had far higher dmg than any of my current carbs.
That might be one of our big problems. Carbine weapons are both easily resisted dmg types, AND lower damage than rifles.
I'm still wondering if the combat balance will be a across te board nerf, or actually evening out the profs by bringing themup to the strong ones.
La-grange
Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:43 am
#8
My take is that we need to be balanced.
Keep in mind that this is before combat pass. My take is that we need a jump in speed for now. Defenses suck and our status changes and types of damage are far to easlily resisted. Accuracy can be a problem against defense stackers in pvp. We are far from being in the middle of things. Not when you have to sacrifice damage for speed just to be mediocre.
It's worth it if you want to have fun. Being a carbineer requires a person to think before they act. But if you pvp like I do then expect to get laughed at. Alot. And no. You will not be able to hold your own. Chances are the person you are fighting against will be a combination of rifleman/fencer/combat medic/doc. Mix and match with that. All but one do mind damage. And one does massive amounts of mind damage that can't easliy be removed unless your a doc. And even then with the havla bug your not going to survive. Seems to be that CM+havla means they can chuck six poisons and a disease before you get your third shot off with an elite.
Carbineer isn't middle of the road. Not by a long shot. We are substandard atm. Hopefully the combat pass will improve things drasitcally. Like maybe give us a masters weapon that is worth something. Or speed mods that are worth something. Or status defenses. Working counterattack would be nice. Maybe a kicker to melee and ranged defense.
Before the flames upon me commence. I have been a carbineer alot longer than most. I love the profession otherwise I wouldn't have given up rifleman to get it again. i am stating that there are issues and they need to be addressed.
Bennyboy4308
Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:10 am
#9
Riflemen are fun to kill. They're so engrossed in thier FOTMness that they become stupid. A smart rifleman shouldn't be beatable, but there are very few of those. None will switch to a disrupter rifle if thier jawa isn't doing damage because of a PSG. None will apply the good state specials they have. The key to beating a rifleman is to control them. They have very little defense against KDs and Posture downs. Just get the states down and keep them on the ground while chipping away at thier armor. Even though I have BH's confustion shot and I can cap scattershot2 with all my carbines, I'll toss in a few FullAutos to get a blind on. Keep up close to rifleman and keep him blind so he has trouble hitting you. I have never lost to a rifleman 1v1, even one with doc to cure the states (while he's curing states, he's not shooting you.) It might be a long fight, but hopefully you can survive till they get a muon downer and start doing damage to thier own mind by firing specials.
midgetbeat
Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:28 pm
#10
I am a Master Doc/Master Carb atm, and I just want to encourage you to go forward! This combo is great as a team support role...Doc skills (need I say more) + Carb skills (lay states with FAS2, KD with ChargeShot2, Cripple Shot once in a while for big damage). The benefit of Carb is that you are relatively close to the action, but not right in the thick of it. Unlike pistols and melee (where you need to be within 10m of the bad guy) or rifle (where you are 50+ out), carbs are happy in that 10m - 50m zone. You can easily break off from action when you need to heal/rez/cure and get to the downed friend quickly.
I have only been doing team PvE thus far (i.e. Geo Caves, NS stronghold, Krayts, etc) and I have been a very welcomed addition to the team with my dual capabilities. As for team PvP, I haven't tried it yet but look forward to the opportunity.
MoonhellWarriors
Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:24 pm
#11
<--- master carbine and master Doctor...
i'm very effective 
Bennyboy4308
Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:58 pm
#12
Doc/Carbineer was fun for me, but I'm more of a solo PvPer so the BH mods suit me better. I do miss Doc greatly though. If Carbineer ever gets what I think I'll need w/o BH mods, I'll pick up doc again. Just right now I can't live w/ the slow speeds, and lack of a good state special (Fullautos just dont cut it in PvP).
sanca
Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:53 pm
#13
Well perhaps my input isn't quite as valuable since i'm not Master Carbineer yet, but I think that Carbineer/CM
is a decent support template. True you lack the poison/disease/state cures of doctor which are important, but as a carbineer you'll be vulnerable to attack and if you have to stay among the fighting group to heal because of docs range then you have a good chance of being ripped apart in seconds. Whereas with CM you can stay well back and heal your whole group with one use of a stim while also keeping an eye on everything that's happening around you. Plus you can throw the odd poison/disease in at the opposition to help your teams efforts.
For pvp Doc is probably more necessary due to the huge numbers of cm's around now, but if you're talking about things such as the corvette, deathwatch bunker, etc. then in my opinion cm > doc. Although really, imo, all groups for pvp and high end pve should have a cm and a doc to keep them in top shape.
I'm only part carbineer with Master Combat Medic atm, but once i master carbineer i'm pretty certain that i'm sticking with this template until the combat balance to see what happens. Hopefully i'll still want to be a carbineer after it as well.
is a decent support template. True you lack the poison/disease/state cures of doctor which are important, but as a carbineer you'll be vulnerable to attack and if you have to stay among the fighting group to heal because of docs range then you have a good chance of being ripped apart in seconds. Whereas with CM you can stay well back and heal your whole group with one use of a stim while also keeping an eye on everything that's happening around you. Plus you can throw the odd poison/disease in at the opposition to help your teams efforts.
For pvp Doc is probably more necessary due to the huge numbers of cm's around now, but if you're talking about things such as the corvette, deathwatch bunker, etc. then in my opinion cm > doc. Although really, imo, all groups for pvp and high end pve should have a cm and a doc to keep them in top shape.
I'm only part carbineer with Master Combat Medic atm, but once i master carbineer i'm pretty certain that i'm sticking with this template until the combat balance to see what happens. Hopefully i'll still want to be a carbineer after it as well.
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