Carbineer Archive
Thread: Damage only relies on DPS now??
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T-Y
Wed May 25, 2005 9:20 am
#1
I had some weapons made, 2 carbines, and have an issue with the damage dealt.
I mainly wanted to see what difference there was between a high damage/high SAC anda lower damage/lower SAC. Both were made with around 99max tissue. But then looked closer at the combat log and wondered what was up.
Weapon 1
E11 MarkII Carbine
2.09 base speed
451-1012 damage
349 base dps
115 SAC
Weapon 2
E11 MarkII Carbine
2.15 base speed
477-939 damage
329 base dps
85 SAC
As I mentioned I am lvl 80 and took a lvl 80 Fambaa mission (just myself no group). Also, I used no food, no spice, etc... since I was originally only interested in the SAC and the 2 weapons. This is the first time I really noticed that damage was always the same... or is it not suppose to be?
When usingthedefault Placed Shotwith Weapon 1 damage was 1100(every Placed Shot was the same 1100 damage).
When using the default Placed Shot with Weapon 2 damage was 1021 (every Placed Shot was the same 1021 damage).
- Is there no varience on damage now?
- It seems to just take the multiplier straight from the dps with no mitigation?
- Does anyone know ifthis the same with PvP?
Also, Weapon 1 with the SAC 115 drains action FAST if you try to spam a2Advancedspecials back to back. 
Message Edited by T-Y on 05-25-2005 09:29 AM
dacal
Wed May 25, 2005 9:49 am
#2
T-Y wrote:
I had some weapons made, 2 carbines, and have an issue with the damage dealt.
I mainly wanted to see what difference there was between a high damage/high SAC anda lower damage/lower SAC. Both were made with around 99max tissue. But then looked closer at the combat log and wondered what was up.
Weapon 1
E11 MarkII Carbine
2.09 base speed
451-1012 damage
349 base dps
115 SAC
Weapon 2
E11 MarkII Carbine
2.15 base speed
477-939 damage
329 base dps
85 SAC
As I mentioned I am lvl 80 and took a lvl 80 Fambaa mission (just myself no group). Also, I used no food, no spice, etc... since I was originally only interested in the SAC and the 2 weapons. This is the first time I really noticed that damage was always the same... or is it not suppose to be?
When usingthedefault Placed Shotwith Weapon 1 damage was 1100(every Placed Shot was the same 1100 damage).
When using the default Placed Shot with Weapon 2 damage was 1021 (every Placed Shot was the same 1021 damage).
- Is there no varience on damage now?
- It seems to just take the multiplier straight from the dps with no mitigation?
- Does anyone know ifthis the same with PvP?
Also, Weapon 1 with the SAC 115 drains action FAST if you try to spam a2Advancedspecials back to back.
Message Edited by T-Y on 05-25-2005 09:29 AM
DPS is not as important as you think. My proton carb has a mod dps of over500damage puppedand does not do more damage than my e11-mk2 that has a much lower DPS.
My Proton Carb:
551-978 min-max
speed 2.69 base 1.67 mod
511.75 mod dps
wound 1.6%
85 act cost
My E11Mk2:
640-1193 nin-max
speed 2.95 base 1.84 mod
499.12 mod dps
wound 23.28%
94 act cost
I do well over 100 points of damage per shot more with the E11-MK2
the max damage plays a much bigger rol in per shot damage. the DPS is factored based on the weapon speed.
I have found that a high damage, lower speed, lower action cost, weapon is best for prolonged use of specials. If the speed is too high, I run out of action too quick. the same applies if the action cost is too high. I am more concerned with damage and accuracy these are the factors that really matter.
Message Edited by dacal on 05-25-2005 11:52 AM
T-Y
Wed May 25, 2005 10:31 am
#3
Dacal have you tested your two carbines using the same default attack?
From what I thought, DPS was meant to mean was... "Here is the average damage you will do with this weapon" Like pre-cu everyone tried to calculate the dps of there weapons... Figured this DPS was added to help us who failed math.
BUT, It just seems there is no longer any varience over the listed damage of a weapon (at least in my limited testing)... i.e. pre-cu you could use the default attack and have varying damage, sometimes it might be 300 sometimes 400 depending on the listed damage of the weapon (using the same attack). Now it seems the multiplier is on the DPS of the weapon rather than a random number from the listed weapon damage range.
I could be wrong. But based on the same default attacks it seems to be off the DPS. Maybe I need to try some higher lvl creatures or Advanced specials.
From what I thought, DPS was meant to mean was... "Here is the average damage you will do with this weapon" Like pre-cu everyone tried to calculate the dps of there weapons... Figured this DPS was added to help us who failed math.
BUT, It just seems there is no longer any varience over the listed damage of a weapon (at least in my limited testing)... i.e. pre-cu you could use the default attack and have varying damage, sometimes it might be 300 sometimes 400 depending on the listed damage of the weapon (using the same attack). Now it seems the multiplier is on the DPS of the weapon rather than a random number from the listed weapon damage range.
I could be wrong. But based on the same default attacks it seems to be off the DPS. Maybe I need to try some higher lvl creatures or Advanced specials.
raider7734
Wed May 25, 2005 10:48 am
#4
I have observed the same thing as you:the randomness in damage is gone.
My own testing has shownactual damageto correlate extremely wellwiththe Max damage of the weapon. (test data in theweaponsmith forum postabout Elemental damage being broken).
Others say it's correlates with the average damage [(Min+Max)/2], butthis is easilydisproven if you test a selectionof weapons whose proportions of Max damage to Min damage varies. People cling to old beliefs tho, so it willtake time for the truth to emerge.. and in the meantime, there are all sorts of claims being madewith no test data to support them.
dps seems areasonable gauge of how good a weapon is, I use it just as a first-glance kind of thing to see if it's even in the ballpark of something I'd want to use.
At the same time, I'm not sold on the concept of superfast weapons thatshow a skyhigh modified dps, becausepeople seem to be running into a hard cap on attack speed. In this case, a very high modified dps is not actually resulting in killing stuff any faster.
I got some +145krayt tissues just recently, and here's what I'm going to tell the weaponsmith: I'm looking for the speed to be close to what I'm used to, about 2.25. Then, I want damage and efficiency experimented up so thatthe Max damage divided by SAC is a minimum of 11.Higher if exp points allow. The dps can end up where it wants to.
Max damage / SAC is my measure of how efficient a gun is at converting action into damage. My proton is 10.4 (from memory) and using something less efficient than this just feels miserable.
SaleusCorwen
Wed May 25, 2005 11:16 am
#5
i also noticed the same thing about no variation in damage being done anymore..
it appears there is a hard number that says how much damage is being done..
i guess the next step is to take a weapon, turn on time stamp logging and beat up on a creatureand then process the log filefor the true DPS.. and then compare that between weapons to see if the DPS is actually a true indicator of weapon output..
dacal
Wed May 25, 2005 11:37 am
#6
Yes I have tested both weapons using the same defalt attack, the DPS appears to be calculated buy the speed and the damage of the weapon, I have noticed that the faster the speed, the quicker my cooldown timers get finished, so I can fire more often, but this drains my action too quickly and does not result in a faster kill. I consistantly do more damage and am able to sustain my action pool easier with my lower dps weapon and kill the target more quickly.
T-Y wrote:
Dacal have you tested your two carbines using the same default attack?
From what I thought, DPS was meant to mean was... "Here is the average damage you will do with this weapon" Like pre-cu everyone tried to calculate the dps of there weapons... Figured this DPS was added to help us who failed math.
BUT, It just seems there is no longer any varience over the listed damage of a weapon (at least in my limited testing)... i.e. pre-cu you could use the default attack and have varying damage, sometimes it might be 300 sometimes 400 depending on the listed damage of the weapon (using the same attack). Now it seems the multiplier is on the DPS of the weapon rather than a random number from the listed weapon damage range.
I could be wrong. But based on the same default attacks it seems to be off the DPS. Maybe I need to try some higher lvl creatures or Advanced specials.
most of my testing was done on level 80~82 fambas solo.
I also examine my combat log after every fight just to seehow muchdamage I am causing my target.
consistantly my lower dps e11-mk2 outperforms my higher dps speed sliced proton carb.
Anzati_Sentinel
Wed May 25, 2005 11:44 am
#7
DPS is important if you are trying to see how much damage you can do in one second. the minimum and maximum damage still works like it did in the old system. without the DPS, we would not know how much our speed and accuracy affects the amount of damage we can do.
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