Carbineer Archive
Thread: Attack multipliers
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fabkins
Mon May 02, 2005 11:45 pm
#1
Hi,
Did some experimenting yesterday with a willing target to see what the multipliers were like for different attacks.
I used "Ranged" Attack as the base damage and worked out how the other attacks compared in damage.
Here is what I got:
x1.0Ranged
x1.1Placed
x1.5 Rapid Fire
x1.9 Critical
x1.5 Sprayshot
x1.4 Body
x1.9 Legshot
x0.8 Scatter ???
x1.7 Torso
At this point it was all done too much of a hurry and I would need to double check.
Also found that for any particular move there wasnt much varience. What I hadnt tried is seeing if distance affects anything (I saw a post the other day that indicated that but wasnt sure to trust it or not).
TAfirehawk
Tue May 03, 2005 7:26 am
#2
Those numbers will change based on your Accuracy and Level of Target.....
Respec your template and repeat the test and your numbers will change 
_scout_
Tue May 03, 2005 7:48 am
#3
A DEV somewhere (sorry dont have the link anymore) said:
If you accuracy is higher then the defense of your target you will do more damage.
.
If you accuracy is higher then the defense of your target you will do more damage.
.
Thatguyfubu
Tue May 03, 2005 7:56 am
#4
Your skill set and professions might change the damage or even the modifiers but I would say the damage ratio between the different specials look pretty accurate to me.
TAfirehawk
Tue May 03, 2005 8:21 am
#5
Sorry, but I need data and numbers and proper testing before publishing any hard numbers, something that is repeatable and verifiable by all people.....and I have seen nothing of the kind yet except one test that didn't include all the variables and some 'feelings' that they are right.
I published some damage numbers for my specific build on a specific target on a given day, other than that making generalizations in this new system are pretty tough. Nobody said the Accuracy and CL modifiers were linear or affected the Special Damage Modifier the same.....next to impossible to test this and get repeatable results as memnoch tried for days on TC.
I would be more than happy to work with all of you trying to get these numbers, but the testing method and environment must be VERY CONTROLLED.
memnoch37
Tue May 03, 2005 9:23 am
#6
FWIW:
Does not affect damage:
- Distance
- Posture of attacker
- Movement of attacker
- Attacker/defender level in PvP
Does affect damage:
- Accuracy of attacker. This includes SEAs, but not accuracy increasing abilities. Accuracy food/drink was not tested (if it still exists)
- Defenses of target. (This includes melee, ranged, and weapon specific. So if you equip a weapon you're skilled with you will take less damage)
- Posture of target
- Movement of target
- Armor, defense modifying food/drink, CoB (raises defense), Duelist Stance, and probably manyother itemsI can't think of.
- BF of target
- Species? (Diff species dealt/received diff damages not related to any listedspecies specificaccuracy/defense bonuses.This was when I stopped testing)
- And above all, player/creature level in PvE. This means the only semi-valid tests in PvE are against mobs of the same level.
Now these are just what I found were affecting it on TC a few weeks ago. There were more I could not discover that were causing the numbers to be off.
The fun part, is that because this was two weeks ago on TC, all the above is invalid I just wanted to post a few things for you adventerous people to keep in mind while testing 
But yes, Fabkins, most of those numbers are roughly what I have written down, give or take.
Bennyboy4308
Tue May 03, 2005 9:28 am
#7
I can't test it right now because my character doens't have any states ATM, but from what I understand Stun lowers defense so it'd be interesting to see if you do more damage against stunned targets.
TAfirehawk
Tue May 03, 2005 9:31 am
#8
memnoch37 wrote:
FWIW:
Does not affect damage:
- Distance
- Posture of attacker
- Movement of attacker
- Attacker/defender level in PvP
Does affect damage:
- Accuracy of attacker. This includes SEAs, but not accuracy increasing abilities. Accuracy food/drink was not tested (if it still exists)
- Defenses of target. (This includes melee, ranged, and weapon specific. So if you equip a weapon you're skilled with you will take less damage)
- Posture of target
- Movement of target
- Armor, defense modifying food/drink, CoB (raises defense), Duelist Stance, and probably manyother itemsI can't think of.
- BF of target
- Species? (Diff species dealt/received diff damages not related to any listedspecies specificaccuracy/defense bonuses.This was when I stopped testing)
- And above all, player/creature level in PvE. This means the only semi-valid tests in PvE are against mobs of the same level.
Now these are just what I found were affecting it on TC a few weeks ago. There were more I could not discover that were causing the numbers to be off.
The fun part, is that because this was two weeks ago on TC, all the above is invalid
But yes, Fabkins, most of those numbers are roughly what I have written down, give or take.
Thanks memnoch, I was hoping you would post your list.....I couldn't remember all the items
Shikkari
Tue May 03, 2005 12:10 pm
#9
My impression so far is distance has no effect...thats what I read though...i have not tried to test it. Thanks for the numbers on the specials!
fabkins
Tue May 03, 2005 9:27 pm
#10
Notice dthat I purposely did not include any damage figures just the ratios. Where you saying that depending on your character stats the rations would change Firehawk?
If someone would work on validating those ratios also that would be useful.
Then next question is the relative delays for different moves which would give a DPS like ratio.
I also dont know whether the action cost is the same for every move?
Question I have is if Critical shot is is almost twice the damage but takes almost twice the time, it would be interesting balancing this against a faster but smaller ratio attack. Obviously you may end up loosing out on action costs but if chemicalled up, it may not be an issue.
Anyhow some thoughts.
memnoch37
Tue May 03, 2005 10:54 pm
#11
Theoretically the ratios should stay the same as long as you stick with carbine specials only, but that would be logical and I personally wouldn't want to assume it.*Edit: Just thought of something else. I wonder if an ability does any kind of accuracy check when it's used cross profession? Ex. does Stopping Shot do damage according to your carbine accuracy, or pistol accuracy? If so, does that mean Underhand shot is technically a pistol ability?
fabkins wrote:
Notice dthat I purposely did not include any damage figures just the ratios. Where you saying that depending on your character stats the rations would change Firehawk?
If someone would work on validating those ratios also that would be useful.
Then next question is the relative delays for different moves which would give a DPS like ratio.
I also dont know whether the action cost is the same for every move?
Question I have is if Critical shot is is almost twice the damage but takes almost twice the time, it would be interesting balancing this against a faster but smaller ratio attack. Obviously you may end up loosing out on action costs but if chemicalled up, it may not be an issue.
Anyhow some thoughts.
Action costs are definitely different for each special.
Oh, and a fun thing I just remembered: some (my bet is all) abilities have an accuracy modifier as well. I never did get around to testing whether or not 'accuracy' referred to the old hit/miss ratio or the new damage values. If it is damage then that could definitely skew the data some, especially if your template had just the right accuracy.
Cooldown times and groups play a huge factor in battle. Even with regen buffs, spice,and food I can burn through my action pool quick if I'm fighting recklessly or trying to take multiple targetsdownas quick as possible. I keep forgetting that knowing when not to useheavy action/powerfullabilitiesis more important than knowing when to use them.
Message Edited by memnoch37 on 05-04-2005 01:00 AM
Zhorx
Wed May 04, 2005 3:59 am
#12
TAfirehawk wrote:
Those numbers will change based on your Accuracy and Level of Target.....
Respec your template and repeat the test and your numbers will change
Does the special attack damage multiplier scale with level?
Correct me if i am wrong but...from what i saw there the numbers were normalizedagainst the regular ranged attack (or could be since themultiplier for regular ranged was 1.0)so the multipliers have no dimension and should be the same regardless of accuracy and level.
Correct me if i am wrong but...from what i saw there the numbers were normalizedagainst the regular ranged attack (or could be since themultiplier for regular ranged was 1.0)so the multipliers have no dimension and should be the same regardless of accuracy and level.
If you normalize (divide by the regular attack damage against that target) you should be able to get the specific damage modifiers from the specials regardless of accuracy and level, that is unless the specific special damagemodifier scales with accuracy and level too, which i doubt.
_scout_
Wed May 04, 2005 6:45 am
#13
fabkins wrote:Hi,Did some experimenting yesterday with a willing target to see what the multipliers were like for different attacks.I used "Ranged" Attack as the base damage and worked out how the other attacks compared in damage.Here is what I got:x1.0 Rangedx1.1 Placedx1.5 Rapid Firex1.9 Criticalx1.5 Sprayshotx1.4 Bodyx1.9 Legshotx0.8 Scatter ???x1.7 TorsoAt this point it was all done too much of a hurry and I would need to double check.Also found that for any particular move there wasnt much varience. What I hadnt tried is seeing if distance affects anything (I saw a post the other day that indicated that but wasnt sure to trust it or not).
with crictical shot and leg shot haveing apparently the same damage muliplier
i have some tricky questions:
where is the difference ?
which one has a lower action cost ?
and which one has a shorter recharge time ?
*G*
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