Carbineer Archive

There and back again, a carbineer’s tale.

A comparison between BH and Melee Stacking.

I was a Master Carbineer/BH 3400 for the longest time, and then went Mcarb/MBH/Brawler or Medic after they removed Master Scout as a prereq. I was big into hunting Jedi but I also PvP’d a lot. In fact I hardly PvE’d at all so I won’t be comparing the two in that respect very much. After awhile I got sick of dying a lot to Jedi knights so I went BH/TKM. While I enjoyed being able to hit Jedi, I also missed Carbines. So I decided to drop BH (after nearly nine months of hunting). The template I chose was Master Carbineer/ TKM / Fencer 3400 / Medic / FS Melee Speed IV. I’ve played that template for nearly 2 months now. With this template I got second place in a PvP tournament (I lost to 300 tick mind poison and 200 tick mind fire.) Just recently however I decided to return to my MBH days, for jedi hunting.

Template Statistical Comparison.

BH/Carb/Medic or Brawler
225 Accuracy with tapes
Capped speed without tapes
105 Counterattack
Meaningless amount of state defense
Meaningless amount of ranged/melee defense.

BH/TKM/Fencer/FS
130 Accuracy
72 Speed (counting FS melee IV 60 without)
Capped Melee/Ranged Defense
85 Def vs. KD / 80 vs. PD
(Note: If you don’t master TKM, you can pick up pistol tech IV and get a lot more state defense, except TKM is very nice against Jedi battles)

Pros/Cons

BH/Carb
Pros

•A lot of Accuracy
•No need to spend money on speed tapes
•Sprayshot! Dizzy/Stun/Blind that’s quite a bit more efficient than Fullautosingle2 and more powerful
•Jedi Hunting can be fun
•Can whip out a pistol and wield it fairly proficiently
oOne step further: Drop Medic or Brawler and pick up Pistol Tech III for defense AND geno pistol cert.
Cons
•Although noticeably more accurate than non-bh, it’s still not quite as good as you would hope, especially when blinded/intimidated against a stacked fencer.
•Jedi Block, need I say more?
•BH Defense. ROFLMAO, oh that’s funny.

Carb/Stack
Pros
•Great defense, get ‘em blind and they’ll have trouble hitting you
•Very rare that you’ll get KDd
oIf you rarely do, you have equilibrium
•If a Jedi attacks, just whip out a VK.
oMitigation 3 and toughness rule
oBypasses Jedi block
•No need for Thak to PvP so it really opens a lot of doors to different foods in PvP (like defense or accuracy food).
•Both Medic AND Brawler
•Meditation + Powerboost
Cons
•Not quite as good state attacks
oFAS2 does the job though
•Got money? You’ll need it for speed tapes. Accuracy tapes would also be highly suggested
oDPS plummets if not capped.
•Low Accuracy

Deep Thoughts by Jack... err Ben
Well, I was a BH/Carbineer longer so I definantly had more experience with it. It seemed to work fine in non-Jedi PvP. I’d basically Sprayshot till 3 states landed, then supressionfire and underhand shot + cripplespam. Before weapon switch delay I’d KD them then whip out a pistol and spam eyeshot. After that nerf I’d only pull out a pistol if they either had a very low mind or my carbines weren’t doing enough damage and I’d put a torsoshot DOT on. A lot of offensive options open do you really. Against master lightsaber Jedi however I struggled. I have a screenshot where I was blocked 53 times in a row.

Out of 5
Offense: 3.75 on Non Jedi, 1 on Jedi
Defense: 0
Versatility: 4
Fun: 5

The Melee stack has been fun. At first I really missed sprayshot, having a reliable dizzy was my crutch. It’s basically invulnerable to a rifleman or any other ranged PvPer. Pop a Pikitta Pie and blind ‘em up and watch yourself not take damage. Melee professions seem to have an annoying ability to still hit you more than you’d like. One thing that I really like is being able to hurt Jedi knights. Now I very rarely soloed a knight, it’s possible to kill a couple of the stupider ones. You can however last a lot longer with mitigation and toughness and deal some damage in return. Its wonderful in group vs. Jedi, just spam dizzy hit while they’re KD’d. Powerboost and Force of Will is very handy, especially when clone zerging (very fun indeed).

Offense: 3
Defense: 4
Versatility: 4.5
Fun: 4

Overall, I found melee stacking to be more powerful than BH. BH templates however aren’t horrible, and many people do it for the Jedi hunting ability.

PS. I wrote this while bored at school so I'mcertain I missed several important points.

What about BH 34xx, Master Carbineer, Pistoleer xx4x and Novice Medic? You even have enough skillpoints left over for Scout 44xx, meaning you can hunt Meat to make extra cash. That way you have some defenses from Pistols, although you lose out on Eyeshot, or you can go with BH 344x instead of the Hunting line.

Message Edited by GadonThek on 12-17-2004 01:16 AM

---

GadonThek wrote:
What about BH 34xx, Master Carbineer, Pistoleer xx4x and Novice Medic? You even have enough skillpoints left over for Scout 44xx, meaning you can hunt Meat to make extra cash. That way you have some defenses from Pistols, although you lose out on Eyeshot, or you can go with BH 344x instead of the Hunting line.

---

Be sure to check out this thread about the usefulness of defenses.

It boils down to what you want to do. For PvP, Pistoleer defenses alone are not enough for them to be worthwhile. For PvE, they are great.

---

AdmiralSpy wrote:

---

GadonThek wrote:What about BH 34xx, Master Carbineer, Pistoleer xx4x and Novice Medic? You even have enough skillpoints left over for Scout 44xx, meaning you can hunt Meat to make extra cash. That way you have some defenses from Pistols, although you lose out on Eyeshot, or you can go with BH 344x instead of the Hunting line.

---

Be sure to check out this thread about the usefulness of defenses.

It boils down to what you want to do. For PvP, Pistoleer defenses alone are not enough for them to be worthwhile. For PvE, they are great.

---

Your right, I should have made that more clear. Although with the 50 def vs KD it'll really really make sure thak works.

I have been a master carbineer/MBH since the bounty hunter skill point reduction earlier this year. I totally agree with your comments about sprayshot. Its really been my crutch also, and the reason I maintain my template as is (although I do enjoy my titles and the idea of having an offense stacking template). However I do loathe having skill points invested in the LLC tree which I basically never use except in the rare PvE encounters.

Personally I am hoping at this point the combat upgrade will hold some new aspects for me to explore within my template, and I believe it will. I really enjoy the amount of offense I have with these two classes, it is a lot of fun with the amount of versatility they contain. However, these people that say they run out and cut down jedi all the time with this template are insane. I have some pretty good equipment and I eat the finest foods but I dont seem to have the success that other posters do. I dont know that I have had my shots blocked 53 times yet hehe but I certainly dont do enough damage to high end jedi to overcome there buffs combined with healing ability unless they are hurting already and/or outnumbered.

Anyway, from the master carbineer/MBH aspect I think Ben's post hits the target and I guess that is all I am saying here. This is a decent PvP template, and I think it really shines when you can pair up with a melee PvP'er that can initiate battle and allow you to work the states before you are noticed.

I miss carbineer, but all I can say is wow to BH/carbs- I play a MBH/Mpistol/carb3000 toon and I'm glad I went with scatter2 instead of crippleshot as I can use confusion+spray+fireKD+scatter2 (and switch to pistol for torso or eyeshot depending on which ham gets low).

The template GadonThek mentioned is viable of being a very strong offensive PVP setup and the pistol tech line alone gives you plenty of defensive support.

Message Edited by SpunkyKuma on 12-21-2004 07:16 AM

"However, these people that say they run out and cut down jedi all the time with this template are insane. I have some pretty good equipment and I eat the finest foods but I dont seem to have the success that other posters do. I dont know that I have had my shots blocked 53 times yet hehe but I certainly dont do enough damage to high end jedi to overcome there buffs combined with healing ability unless they are hurting already and/or outnumbered."

Higher level Jedi are difficult when attack with ranged, best to have at least one or two melee guys occupy the jedi and time the attacks and his blocks will usually be lowered. I managed to spray+KD and prevented the fleeing jedi from getting into his safehouse and I think he was a MLS (160K bounty).

A friend of mine that is a MBH/Mcarb says he really likes the combination and he has some very fine lasers and DXR6s to hold to his own and has killed several high level Jedi.

Great post Ben

MCarbs/3400Fencer/Medic + Any Master Melee + FS Skills is probably the best overall template i can think of for carbineers, diverse and effective. You can also switch out Medic and go 4440 Fencer for the dizzy/blind defence, but i don't really think it makes a huge difference. So far this has been my favourite.

Right now i am doing Swords as my master melee since it is disgusting in PvE. There really is no other word to describe it. Definitely worth a look for the carbineer looking for a little more of a PvE punch. Even the defence with that are not all that bad.

MCarbs/MSwords/3400Fencer/NMedic/Prowess0003

Carbine Acc +130 (+155 after tapes)
Carbine Spd +60 (+69 with FS, +94 with tapes, which is enough to cap anything)
2H Swrd Acc +130
2H Swrd Spd +75 (+84 with FS)
Def vs. KD +90
Def vs. PD +60
Counterattack +215 (/centered with a sword, actually kicks in often enough to notice it)
Melee Defence +74
Range Defence +96

This of course only really works well with +25 spd/acc tapes, but for the serious carbineer it should be a problem ... heh, i got a +9 Carb Spd AA for 500K this week ... w00t! Also props to Kodan.

---

wilibus wrote:
Great post Ben

MCarbs/3400Fencer/Medic + Any Master Melee + FS Skills is probably the best overall template i can think of for carbineers, diverse and effective. You can also switch out Medic and go 4440 Fencer for the dizzy/blind defence, but i don't really think it makes a huge difference. So far this has been my favourite.

Right now i am doing Swords as my master melee since it is disgusting in PvE. There really is no other word to describe it. Definitely worth a look for the carbineer looking for a little more of a PvE punch. Even the defence with that are not all that bad.

MCarbs/MSwords/3400Fencer/NMedic/Prowess0003

Carbine Acc +130 (+155 after tapes)
Carbine Spd +60 (+69 with FS, +94 with tapes, which is enough to cap anything)
2H Swrd Acc +130
2H Swrd Spd +75 (+84 with FS)
Def vs. KD +90
Def vs. PD +60
Counterattack +215 (/centered with a sword, actually kicks in often enough to notice it)
Melee Defence +74
Range Defence +96

This of course only really works well with +25 spd/acc tapes, but for the serious carbineer it should be a problem ... heh, i got a +9 Carb Spd AA for 500K this week ... w00t! Also props to Kodan.

---

Not to mention you have enough Fencer to use an Acklay Stun Batton and/or Acklay Gaffi Stick.....which is what I do as I don't have Swordsman since I have Pistoleer for PvP Defenses.

Question though....how much do you actually use Carbineer as a Master Swordsman?

Depending on what i am doing really. I would say overall probably about 70% Carbines, 30% Swords

PvP is pretty much carbines exclusively with PvE being about a 50/50 split.

Unless i am with a group of friends trying to hit the mind pool, or in need of a tank i try and use carbines in PvE for everything i can. So unless i am out doing Kryats, NS or something similar that carbines really have no chance against i will use them just because it is more entertaining then spamming headhit3 or area3. Also back in the solo days i found carbines faster than swords for Janta Missions, as it was easier to run in with crippleshot from 64m away then charging in with 2Hhit3.