Carbineer Archive
Thread: Combat Upgrade: Consolidated List of Issues for Carbineers OLD
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TAfirehawk
Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:40 pm
#1
Please list your issues/problems with the Combat Upgrade as they relate to CARBINEER ONLY.
Please do not carry on discussions in here, I need to keep this consolidated for the Devs....but feel free to discuss issues in a new thread, I will read them all 
This thread is marked as 'OLD' because it is pre-LIVE discussions.
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 04-30-2005 09:10 AM
weaponmaster88
Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:30 pm
#2
i find it pretty funny that in the CU we still have all our old problems back (well action cost anyway) then they do all this "balancing" to help us fufill our crowd control roll, and they do that by removing everything that makes carbineer crowd controlling lol. anyway heres what i saw:
DXR6 is currently certed at inceneritory(no clue how to spell that???) 3 in commando.... doesn't seem like much of a flamethrower to me.
Action costs are way to high, i was dueling last night and we each kept running behind factories for 20 seconds just to let our action regenerate
Please bring back our crowd control specials to actually do some crowd control ie: Chargeshot2 should still be AOE, Full Auto Area needs to still apply states
Adv. rapid fire has a rather low damage mod i never have reason to use it even though its our master special
Still not really sure what supression fire is supposed to do and it doesn't seem to be doing it whatever it is.
Message Edited by weaponmaster88 on 04-24-2005 08:29 AM
MeciniaLua
Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:20 am
#3
I find it unacceptable that for example Commandos and Bounty Hunters can use our carbines ( except the E11 Mark 2 ) but yet we cannot use any of their weapons. To me that is a gross imbalance. Either our weapons need to be certed in carbineer, or else they need to uncert the skill boxes for commando and bounty hunter weapons that are not in the master box.
Also I couldn't get rapid fire to work properly earlier today, was using the E11 Mark 2 and firing at a level 67 Rebel.....
memnoch37
Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:48 am
#4
- Suppression Fire simply doesn't work. Additionally it has a very small cone area (30º?)
- Little to no class distinction. We have one low damage single targetKD special, one very low damage single targetSnare special, one medium damage cone attack, and one broken cone attack that we're not sure what it's supposed to do.Everything else isgeneric.How are carbineer's expected to fill the role of crowd control/AoE damage with such a limited arsenal of abilities?
- More to come
TheBobulus
Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:13 pm
#5
- Certification problems:
* Elite carbine has identical stats to the E11 Carbine mkII, is a master level weapon, but does not require a master level certification, as the E11 mkII does. Seems like it should
* Hopefully already in the works, but doesn't hurt to remind: the laser carbine certification needs to be changed from CL22 to CL50.
- Suppression fire (last I checked) still didn't do the -rooted- status effect it's designed to do.
* Elite carbine has identical stats to the E11 Carbine mkII, is a master level weapon, but does not require a master level certification, as the E11 mkII does. Seems like it should
* Hopefully already in the works, but doesn't hurt to remind: the laser carbine certification needs to be changed from CL22 to CL50.
- Suppression fire (last I checked) still didn't do the -rooted- status effect it's designed to do.
TAfirehawk
Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:26 pm
#6
Don't be shy folks, post as much as possible here.....we need as much ammunition as possible when I take this to the Devs. Feel free to fully explain each point, but just don't reply to others and carry on discussions here.
And I waited for so long to let things settle down on TC
- SuppressionFire in all its forms is very low Damage with no Crowd Control States
- FullAutoArea is only working Cone Effect Special - ONE Special does NOT fulfill a Carbineer's Primary or Secondary Roles as listed in the CU Docs
- ChargeShot no longer has version with Cone KD - this should be added to fulfill our new roles
- Existing E11 conversion is broken, nothing converts to the E11 Mk.2 but Pistols and Rifles get their weapons converted to the higher level weapon - at least make the Enhanced E11 on LIVE convert to the E11 Mk.2
- Reports are Slugthrower conversion is higher than Elite but it shouldn't be that way
- No WS craftable Carbines are between Level 14 and Level 40, this makes leveling Carbine XP a nightmare and like no other profs
- No WS craftable Carbines have Kinetic or Acid, Cold, or Electricity damage types - Devs stated in the past that all profs would get all damage types for BALANCE, don't see much balance in Carbineer yet
- Advanced Rapid Fire is listed in Marksmanship Tree, should be Intermediate Rapid Fire
- Combat XP levels are too high for leveling in Marksman Ranged Support Tree - this applies to all Ranged Profs actually
- Armor only converts to Padded or Bone both with a fixed color, please at least give color options if not other armors
- Profession Role per CU Docs is absolutely not happening, we have ONE Cone Damage Only Special (secondary role but weak at that even) and ZERO Crowd Control Specials.....this is probably my #1 item as the CU takes away our current Role on LIVE and gives us nothing in return except a weapon with limited range
- Action Cost for Specials for a Carbineer are WAY out of line with the other profs
- Carbineer Defenses seem a bit high (I hate to say that, but it is true) for our relative ranking in the CU Docs - seems the Offense is about right and the Crowd Control has been forgotten entirely
- Already I must call for a complete Carbineer Revamp with the utter lack of Abilities that relate to any part of the CU Doc Role for Carbineer - 3 or 4 Specials need to be added (or planned at least) to give us ANY ROLE in combat
I will post more probably and please don't hesitate to post duplicates to anybody else's list as the more people that find a problem with something (even my own list repeats some issues) the better chance it has to get some attention (notice I didn't say FIXED)
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 04-23-2005 04:40 PM
Antehiem
Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:32 pm
#7
TA, did you mean 'doesn't'?
TAfirehawk wrote:
- FullAutoArea is only working Cone Effect Special - ONE Special does fulfill a Carbineer's Primary or Secondary Roles as listed in the CU Docs
TAfirehawk
Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:40 pm
#8
Antehiem wrote:
TA, did you mean 'doesn't'?
TAfirehawk wrote:
- FullAutoArea is only working Cone Effect Special - ONE Special does fulfill a Carbineer's Primary or Secondary Roles as listed in the CU Docs
Yes, thank you
Sometimes my brain works faster than my fingers....or is it the other way around
MeciniaLua
Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:07 pm
#9
TAfirehawk wrote:
Don't be shy folks, post as much as possible here.....we need as much ammunition as possible when I take this to the Devs. Feel free to fully explain each point, but just don't reply to others and carry on discussions here.
And I waited for so long to let things settle down on TC
- SuppressionFire in all its forms is very low Damage with no Crowd Control States
- FullAutoArea is only working Cone Effect Special - ONE Special does NOT fulfill a Carbineer's Primary or Secondary Roles as listed in the CU Docs
- ChargeShot no longer has version with Cone KD - this should be added to fulfill our new roles
- Existing E11 conversion is broken, nothing converts to the E11 Mk.2 but Pistols and Rifles get their weapons converted to the higher level weapon - at least make the Enhanced E11 on LIVE convert to the E11 Mk.2
- Reports are Slugthrower conversion is higher than Elite but it shouldn't be that way
- No WS craftable Carbines are between Level 14 and Level 40, this makes leveling Carbine XP a nightmare and like no other profs
- No WS craftable Carbines have Kinetic or Acid, Cold, or Electricity damage types - Devs stated in the past that all profs would get all damage types for BALANCE, don't see much balance in Carbineer yet
- Advanced Rapid Fire is listed in Marksmanship Tree, should be Intermediate Rapid Fire
- Combat XP levels are too high for leveling in Marksman Ranged Support Tree - this applies to all Ranged Profs actually
- Armor only converts to Padded or Bone both with a fixed color, please at least give color options if not other armors
- Profession Role per CU Docs is absolutely not happening, we have ONE Cone Damage Only Special (secondary role but weak at that even) and ZERO Crowd Control Specials.....this is probably my #1 item as the CU takes away our current Role on LIVE and gives us nothing in return except a weapon with limited range
- Action Cost for Specials for a Carbineer are WAY out of line with the other profs
- Carbineer Defenses seem a bit high (I hate to say that, but it is true) for our relative ranking in the CU Docs - seems the Offense is about right and the Crowd Control has been forgotten entirely
- Already I must call for a complete Carbineer Revamp with the utter lack of Abilities that relate to any part of the CU Doc Role for Carbineer - 3 or 4 Specials need to be added (or planned at least) to give us ANY ROLE in combat
I will post more probably and please don't hesitate to post duplicates to anybody else's list as the more people that find a problem with something (even my own list repeats some issues) the better chance it has to get some attention (notice I didn't say FIXED)
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 04-23-2005 04:40 PM
I think these are very good points.
I still think the issue about our weapons not being skill box certed while BH and Commando ones are is not right.
TAfirehawk
Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:15 pm
#10
Not to carry on a discussion (but I made the thread and can change the rules
MeciniaLua wrote:
I still think the issue about our weapons not being skill box certed while BH and Commando ones are is not right.
), but Commando should NEVER be included in that arguement as they are a class all to themselves with Heavy Weapons....and BH Carbines, only ONE WS craftable Carbine is BH Only....don't see any reason to argue that point either. I will include your complaint but it isn't based on fact very well......Carbineer has ONE WS craftable Carbine too, so they can complain as much as you....Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 04-23-2005 05:15 PM
EmanDetrevni
Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:35 pm
#11
no cone kd...this was one of the best things about carbineer.
i seem to remember carbineers asking for a intimidate shot...and pistoleers got it.
insane action costs.
XenosAllus
Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:31 pm
#12
Two points, one reinterated:
1. Adv. Rapid Fire as well as being certed lower in carbineer also seems to be using the damage modifier for improved rapid. It does damage similiar to specials lower thenmaster (ie leg shot at 4) and a fair bit less then comparable master specials in other master boxes ex: BH and Rifle. As it stands it is far to weak an attack for master.
2. Carb action cost is insane with the new "adjusted" weapons. With my old "prenerf" (rofl, prenerf in the CU ) damage sliced proton the drain was large but I could put out enough damage to over come it. Now, I made a rodian because they have +30% action regen (first char was human) to help overcome the problem with the "prenerf" guns. Even with the much higher then normal action regen using the new weapons I was unable to finish a fight without running out of action. The damage I put out compared to action was pitiful, to finish the fight I actually had to pull out my old gun (even though I thought this was unfair) because the person was regening health faster then I could regen action to do damage:with +30%.
) damage sliced proton the drain was large but I could put out enough damage to over come it. Now, I made a rodian because they have +30% action regen (first char was human) to help overcome the problem with the "prenerf" guns. Even with the much higher then normal action regen using the new weapons I was unable to finish a fight without running out of action. The damage I put out compared to action was pitiful, to finish the fight I actually had to pull out my old gun (even though I thought this was unfair) because the person was regening health faster then I could regen action to do damage:with +30%.All I can say about carbines performace with the new "balanced" weapons is: Meh.
-Xenos Allus
Message Edited by XenosAllus on 04-23-2005 05:32 PM
Envoy3113
Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:53 pm
#13
TAfirehawk wrote:
Don't be shy folks, post as much as possible here.....we need as much ammunition as possible when I take this to the Devs. Feel free to fully explain each point, but just don't reply to others and carry on discussions here.
And I waited for so long to let things settle down on TC
- SuppressionFire in all its forms is very low Damage with no Crowd Control States
- FullAutoArea is only working Cone Effect Special - ONE Special does NOT fulfill a Carbineer's Primary or Secondary Roles as listed in the CU Docs
- ChargeShot no longer has version with Cone KD - this should be added to fulfill our new roles
- Existing E11 conversion is broken, nothing converts to the E11 Mk.2 but Pistols and Rifles get their weapons converted to the higher level weapon - at least make the Enhanced E11 on LIVE convert to the E11 Mk.2
- Reports are Slugthrower conversion is higher than Elite but it shouldn't be that way
- No WS craftable Carbines are between Level 14 and Level 40, this makes leveling Carbine XP a nightmare and like no other profs
- No WS craftable Carbines have Kinetic or Acid, Cold, or Electricity damage types - Devs stated in the past that all profs would get all damage types for BALANCE, don't see much balance in Carbineer yet
- Advanced Rapid Fire is listed in Marksmanship Tree, should be Intermediate Rapid Fire
- Combat XP levels are too high for leveling in Marksman Ranged Support Tree - this applies to all Ranged Profs actually
- Armor only converts to Padded or Bone both with a fixed color, please at least give color options if not other armors
- Profession Role per CU Docs is absolutely not happening, we have ONE Cone Damage Only Special (secondary role but weak at that even) and ZERO Crowd Control Specials.....this is probably my #1 item as the CU takes away our current Role on LIVE and gives us nothing in return except a weapon with limited range
- Action Cost for Specials for a Carbineer are WAY out of line with the other profs
- Carbineer Defenses seem a bit high (I hate to say that, but it is true) for our relative ranking in the CU Docs - seems the Offense is about right and the Crowd Control has been forgotten entirely
- Already I must call for a complete Carbineer Revamp with the utter lack of Abilities that relate to any part of the CU Doc Role for Carbineer - 3 or 4 Specials need to be added (or planned at least) to give us ANY ROLE in combat
I will post more probably and please don't hesitate to post duplicates to anybody else's list as the more people that find a problem with something (even my own list repeats some issues) the better chance it has to get some attention (notice I didn't say FIXED)
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 04-23-2005 04:40 PM
Sounds about right, although the other poster mentioning intimidate applys as well. Pistols get powerfull abilitys in burstshot(? action regen debuff) and stopping shot and intim shot. Carbs should get either intim or burstshot or something of it's likeness. Although suppresionfire may solve that, but a narrow cone will not be effective over cripple shot or a line in pistols.
Weapons are still a bit too generic, mentioned above but the spread is odd imo. Cross profession weapons as well, any specific gun should be it's most powerfull in said profession. Save maybe BH due to the nature of the profession. Guns that one would think should provide a benifit in one manner or another are overshadowed more often than not. Especially the rare weapons, loot schems etc, there should be a want and desire to obtain these guns.
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