Carbineer Archive

Wrong Forum.....

But all things retreat after getting too far from their spawn point.

Ah, distance from spawn point is it.... that seems consistent to why it was happening to me also yesterday. They were retreating mainly wheni was running away.

Some guy posted a quite goodarticle about cirle of death or something like that which explains how to kill Krayt. I guess using a circle you arent too far from the spawn point.

Fab

Well i'm sure there is obviously a limit, if there wasn't i'd attempt to drag a ancient from the graveyard all the way into Anchorhead to camp rebels.

Well, as long as you keep shooting it, it shoudn't retreat. If you're more than lets say 200m from the spawn and you go out of range with your weapon for a second, then the dragon has a high chance of just retreating.

Message Edited by Tzaze on 06-12-2005 01:54 PM

I didnt think I stopped shooting, in fact I am very sure I didnt....but....it is possible that i inadvertently got a rock between myself and the krayt for a really short period of time.

We also had it retreating when a whole bunch of people were attacking it. But that might have been the target of Krayt's attention (that would normally be me lol) went out of range or had an obstical between us.

Ok here is my theory and so far its proven true. I have led them prety far away from their spawn points and not had the retreat so i think thats not a factor. It is all about the hate imo. Diffrent damages get diffrent hate. Also as we know there are taunts and healing that also get us hate. It seems to me that the Group Class mobs (Krytes are not just a lvl 95 they are a group level 95 not quite the same) Loose hate rather quickly. This is probably because in a group if the doc acidently pulls the agro it allows the rest of the group to pull it back to them. But sence we are not hunting in a group... We do not keep the hate up to hold the agro. From my perception blaster damage causes verry little actual hate for the amount of damage done when compaired to say healing or dots like fire and poison. I believe this has to do with armor and resistance etc (wich poisons and fires or bleeding goes right thrue for the most part). And sence we are kiteing and not taking much damage if any...We dont heal therefore not get the hate for that. Just the blaster hate.


Now i am a master cm and carbineer. I have killed my share of krytes sence the cu and have studied it fairly well id like to think. I can have em 300m away from the spawn or 30m away from the spawn. They will retreat if you dont get enough hate going. Now upon first agro there is an initial hate level awarded or a minimum agro timer that starts. Unless it kills you it will fight for at least so long as long as you cause some damage....Seems to be about a minut and a half or so for the lvl 64 krytes but its realy hard to say for sure. So other than that first hate or the timer what ever it may be, thats how i precieve it to be anyhow. You got that much time to build up enough of a hate level to keep the agro when that runs out. Unless your weapon has a Lot of damage and is realy fast (as im just carbineer my speed is only about 94 if you want a genral base) it wont make enough hate alone. What proves this to me is wile i was working on my tactics and for fun a couple guildies would come along for extra fire power. Most of the time they were not to much for combat...half crafter etc.

We would go for an ancient for example. Normaly ill get one to agro me (dont agro them if they agro you they dont bring friends) and lead him away from the pack if there is one. Often they dont attack as they are just in "?" mode not "!" full blown agro. Once i see the ? i start backing off...usualy hits at about 35m on the 90's and as much as 45-50 on the ancients and 25-35 on the 82's and 79's. Just because the 82 is closer dosent mean he will agro you so watch it. Then when i know hes far enough away ill charge in (usualy get hit once or twice wich makes the ancients a bit tricky as 3 hits im dead...Im not so much a ring of fire as a just hold em still and pound on em. I drop a paralise then a electrolyte for snare and the thyroid one i think...attack speed snare...i have about 3 seconds on my paralise left (sence i did not cause damage it does not break. I then fire my kd wile i make my break for out of mele range. Wile hes down ill slip in a legshot then my stoping shot from pistoleer 0404. Wile hes siting tight and once my group if there is one sees the kd shot they open fire on him and i lob both my poisons on him. The poisons are the key to the agro. Now once hes good and slowed by cm skills i got 2 minuts where he is not so quick and with the carbineer snare i can kite him walking. If things slip up i got the kd and pistoleer root and disarming shot just incase.

Now heres where i explane why i think its all hate. With sevral in game groups similar and for the sake of this example lets assume im in a group of 3. Myself and another pistoleer and a third with just better than half a combat profession. More along for the ride and extra status effects. Solo even if i manage to keep an ancient under controle causing enough damage to actualy kill one myself i need to apply my cm slows bairly 3 times. The problem with this is i dont cause damage wile im just applying status effects and it means i get hit for about 1200 damage a shot if i get hit. Say i get controle of the kryte and my group and i are fireing away on it...Got her over half dead...Even 90% sometimes. and i go in for a reapplication (has to be at 9m) and die. Once i die he retreats and super heals...Wile my group members fire like mad trying to keep up with him and finish him off. The kryte acts like they are not even there...The entire battle they would not even be attacked if they stayed out of the way of their cone attacks. They never did anything to make the kryte hate them enough to even want to kill. Same group in another slightly diffrent situation. Battle is going well have the lizard almost down. My poisons ware off and i dont notice....or i just think we almost got him. I dont re-apply...Within 45 seconds he will inevitably retreat and run off to heal even with all 3 of us pounding away. Now wile hes running the first thing i do is toss a poison if im close enough. If it sticks withough fail the mob kryte or not will come back full agro to me no mater if they warp 150m away just to kill me. Every time...if the dot sticks when it ticks they re-agro you with the same timmer as the initial agro i talked about eirlyer.

So then trying to get a bunch of tissues for some guildies a couple combat chars come out with me. 2 strong chars one master rifle master bh. And a master tk fencer and pikes i believe. Fealing confident about my now fairly polished tactic...I tell them to just pound away for all out damage. (A tip for anyone with mele friends...If they stay behind his head and cone of attack they dont have to worry about taking damage if they try not to draw agro). We decided to go for some ancients because they were there. The lesser ones died before i had to reapply my cm slows. After both of them and i pounded it almost to death and the cm slows wore off...along with my poisons. I went in to re snare him and died. He instantly lost hate for the group and retreated...even with strong players hitting like mad. He quickly outran the mele guy and then out of range of the rifleman...Now angry we decided he must die. Second time we decided to just drop the second snares and keep pounding..Again when my poisons ran out he /retreated. Managed to catch him with a poison wile he was running away and finished him off when he charged back.

After killing a few more of the wild ones and fealing prety confident in the dot for hate concept...We changed group tactics. With the other 2 members going for not just status effects but if they had anything that would cause bleeding or any damage over time to try to keep those effects in place as much as possable. Now being stuborn and enjoying the results again i went in for the second cm snare's....died. But rather than retreat he switched agro to the rifleman bh ....not expecting it heh...Hadent ben hit the entire night...He died.

He ignored the mele guy though i assume because he had to work at staying in range and dident have to many dot attacks never realy made any hate for himself. For the record i dont care if i die...If i dont have a chance of dieing i get bored...thats also more why i dont do the ring of fire tactic as burst running takes the fun out of it....not even on my toolbar.

Iv messed with this concept with sevral other groups in similar situations...If you dont have dots and a good high real time damage per second you had better have enough people with you to kill it before the initial hate wares off. Iv seen groups of 8 guys and once the key healer or dot guy died they retreat. Its not just the damage you do its the type and dots piss them off a lot. I think more than healing as iv also killed some krytes with a jedi healer...Once i get my cm dots on and start focusing on my carbs for a bit...I have never had the agro pulled off me except for jedi dominate mind. The jedi healer healing me did not even cancle my hate with the poisons ticking. Also being a cm i heal myself a few times increasing my own hate a good amount that way.

I have also applied my hate concept to some NS. Had one in particular follow me almost all the way to the village. I wasent attacking him just letting him burn. He would retreat each time it ran out but id just reignite him and he kept comming. The distance from the spawn point might be a variable but hate is a much stronger one.

This is just my observations and personal testing. I know i cant spell to well so be it...i dont get payed for my grammer i get payed for my knowlage in other areas. If someone can add more insite to this id be interested. So far its held up every way i could test it.

Retreat is based on either:

A minimum amount of hate that must be maintaned after a set initial agro timmer expires by at least one attacking player.

or

A slowly climbing hate number that must be maintaned by at least one attacking member. Once this hate number passes the inital hate+combat generated hate the mob will /retreat.

There is either a set agro time from first attack before retreat is possable or an initial hate genrated on the initial agro...Either way same result.

The retreating from the krayt in regard of the distant to the spawn point ONLY relates to the krayts spawning at the krayt graveyard.

Have you tested and verified your tactics to those krayts in the krayte graveyard as well?

IMHO the retreat was added to the Krayts spawning at the krayt graveyard to prevent luring the krayts away till they they get to a place where bases or turrets can be placed and have these turrets tanking the krayts and the players just watching.

An additional fix to prevent exploiting NPCs or turrets is the 60% damage rule introduced in one of the latest patches. If a NPC or static object (like a turret) does 60% damage you loose looting rights.

---

To be honest i cant say for fact that i have led a kryte from the nest in the graveyard more than 250-300m or so away...Just the wild ones. I have led sevral spawns long distances though but cant say as any of them have ben static repeating spawns like the nest in the graveyard. If they do not kite farther even with the hate than they would be an exception. I would be fairly confident to say i have had them over 250m.

Also i have had sevral retreat if i dident do what i considered atted extra hate well within 100m of spawn even at the nest. The way i do it they dont move to much unless im just messing around. Most of what i have kited great distances are wild krytes and NS.

Message Edited by Quandry on 06-13-2005 11:27 PM