Carbineer Archive
Thread: The point of diminishing return for speed and accuracy
The best way to ask this question is probably to deal with the modified speed metric. That way you can get an idea of where you should be.
I did a ton of testing when I first got all of my SEA's into my suit, and the result was that with +25 General Ranged speed and +25 Carbine speed, I fire really damn fast with even a 2.4 speed carbine. I applied one piece of armor at a time and mixed and matched with some older pieces with smaller speed mods to get a comparison while firing at a PvP target for thrity consecutive shots. I did this for generic shots, and then with specials. What I concluded was that I was perfectly happy with any weapon on which my modified speed was 1.5 or less. Anything below this, and it became very difficult to really see a difference in the timing of the shots. You DO fire faster with modified speed of .9 versus a modified speed of 1.5, but it is a miniscule improvement.
For example, I pretty much only fire a combination of specials. I very rarely ever use my generic or lower powered attacks (which is why low SAC is more important than most other stats on a carb IMO). So for me, its all about how fast I can fire the specials. With a .9 modified speed on a carbine, I fire 32 shots in the same time it takes me to fire 30 shots at 1.5 modified speed. That is roughly a 6-7% improvement. Now if I am having a weapon made, and I have a choice between getting a base speed of 1.9 and a max damage of 950, versus a base speed of 2.4 and a max damage of 1060+.....I am going to go with the higher damage every time because I will cause MORE damage over those thirty shots with the higher damage than I would with the extra speed after all my mods are taken into account.
Calculating the PoDR for speed is a highly specific and personal exercise. There is no catchall algorithm that can prove where the PoDR is for everyone that I know of, although I think we are getting close to it. Since we dont know the exact timing of so many of the combat functions, it is hard to develop a formula other than through testing with the detailed combat log options and timestamping. What I have suggested is merely the results from the early stages of my own testing, but I have used it to guide my last few custom carbine orders, and have been very satisfied with the results so far.
So for me, once you get to 1.5 modified speed anything LESS than that is nice but not really worth it. I hit 1.5 modified speed or less on every single carbine I own because of the mods in my armor, so I cant tell you what BASE speed carbine YOU should be looking for.
I hope this helps. Sorry if I ramble or if any of it is obtuse.
Cool, thanks for the great info on speed man. Anyone know the PoDR for accuracy? Im talking everything added together. ie tapes and profession mods, General ranged+carbine. As in the number you see on the character sheet when your carbine is equiped. I am at 201 right now, how is that?
Also, how do you predict what your mod speed will be on a gun? ie. If I have a carbine with a base speed of 2.0 and I have a TOTAL ranged speed mod of 80, what would my mod speed on the carbine be? Is there a formula?
Message Edited by NnahOlos on 06-24-2005 03:00 PM
A couple little problems with your theory of a defense cap, aura, center of being, and duelist stance. All of which are defense boosters and all of which reduce the damage you take. I just think the chef foods and Bio clothes are not working as intended.
Tal'set
ChefVomit wrote:I am not sure that there is a point of no return on accuracy, but I DO know that your accuracy mod listed on the character screen is also not accurate sometimes. That screen will take into account ALL the mods in your clothing, but the system itself still just counts the first +25. For example, I have like +35 in Carbine Accuracy and +31 in General Ranged Accuracy in my clothing. The character screen counts ALL of that, but that is inaccurate.Having said all that, having as much accuracy as possible is always a good thing. Since the way the system is SUPPOSED to work is that your to-hit modifier is essentially based on your accuracy relative to your targets defenses. Whether it actually works that way or not is still speculative for many of us...considering the fact that many of the defensive foods and clothing appear to have no effect whatsoever on the number of times that hits actually land on you (although Force Aura most certainly DOES work). There have been numerous tests in this forum, the pistoleer and rifleman forums, Jedi forums, and others. Not one test that I have seen that actually tested for more than just a few shots actually showed that either food or BE clothing does a damn thing in PvP. In my own testing I also have been unable to prove that these help me in any way. Its not conclusive....none of this is yet.....but its what we have so far. I dont know whether the system is simply not working as intended, or whether these particular items are not working, or whether there is a hidden hardcap on defensive mods that you hit as a lvl 80 character, thereby rendering all other mods worthless. This last possibility may be close to the truth, since the ONLY tests that have shown vegeparsine, Elshandruu Pica Thundercloud, or BE clothing to do anything were tested using low level characters. That lends a great deal of validity to the hypothesis that there is a hardcap for defensive mods, and that there for having more is not helping. I dont know, just telling you what I have found so far.But after everything is said and done, I still believe in having as much accuracy as possible.
/hero Zemzam
Great post.
Talset11 wrote:
A couple little problems with your theory of a defense cap, aura, center of being, and duelist stance. All of which are defense boosters and all of which reduce the damage you take. I just think the chef foods and Bio clothes are not working as intended.
Tal'set
Oh trust me I know that is how they are LABELLED, but is that how they actually work? When you have these active, can you see the mods on the character screen? I know for certain that these do indeed work, my question is whether they actually increase your ranged and melee defense values....... or work on an entirely different level.
Dont get me wrong....you are absolutely correct, and I dont claim to have all the answers. But while I do agree that aura, CoB, and Duelist stance mitigate damage effectively, I do not have actual confirmation that they do it by increasing your ranged and melee defense values. As far as I know they do it through an entirely different system of mitigation. An example of this would be theway that Pikatta Pienever actually affected a players dodge mod....it decreased your opponents to-hit ratio. It was labelled asa a food that increased dodge, but it did not affect your dodge modifier one iota. There are other examples of foods, mods, tissues, etc that DID work, but did not work they way they were labelled. THAT....is what I am still trying to puzzle out, and you raise very good points.
NnahOlos wrote:
Cool, thanks for the great info on speed man. Anyone know the PoDR for accuracy? Im talking everything added together. ie tapes and profession mods, General ranged+carbine. As in the number you see on the character sheet when your carbine is equiped. I am at 201 right now, how is that?
Also, how do you predict what your mod speed will be on a gun? ie. If I have a carbine with a base speed of 2.0 and I have a TOTAL ranged speed mod of 80, what would my mod speed on the carbine be? Is there a formula?
Message Edited by NnahOlos on 06-24-2005 03:00 PM
But for the second one, just pick up any carbine you own and see what your modified speed it. Divide that by the base speed, and you will have a percentage that you can apply to the base speed of any carbine you see to find out what your modified speed would be.
Message Edited by ChefVomit on 06-27-2005 11:19 AM
Orykko wrote:
Sorry if I am being a little dense, but I want to get this straight before I invest in skill tapes. If I have a +25 Carbine Speed and a +25 General Ranged Speed, I only get a +25 boost to my speed when holding a Carbine?
With those two tapes in your armor, you will get a +25 from the General ranged speed tape when you have ANY ranged weapon equipped. When you equip a carbine, you will get an additional +25 from the Carbine speed tape. They stack.