Carbineer Archive

Now i dont want to start an endless debate on what the definition (WWII or otherwise) of a carbine. The main thing is, since we get shots like full auto, burst shot etc, you have to figure the carbine to fall somewhere in the lines of sub-machinegun to an assult rifle, which goes full auto/burst. When thinking of these weapons, they are much faster then pistols by far (rate of fire wise). so shouldnt the carbines instead of the pistols get faster speed instead? i dunno, what do you guys think? and please dont post about the history of carbines

Zhuge Liang

Marauder/Mercenary

4-4-2-3 Carbineer

Logic says yes

O'hara says no ( or so it seems)

for some reason we don't get any say in this

PS like both the forum and the game names

Eryn GreyWolf

Gorath Galaxy

Carbineer/Pistoleer/Bounty Hunter

Jensaarai, if you only knew how many threads I've posted the exact same line of reasoning. Thank you for proving me still sane. The sub-machine gun / light asault rifle is right where a carbine is based, and I say that as far as in-game implementations go, a carbine should be faster than a pistol, do more damage, but suffer heavily for close range accuracy, as that is a pistol's true strength. Anything inside 15-20m, I think a pistoleer should be doing severe damage due to the inaccuracy of a carbine at that range because of recoil. We might be the only two people that think this way, but at least it's not just one anymore.

Im a carbineer on valcyn. my skills are 1-2-0-1. im a member of DH Defenders Of Hope.

I comepleetly agree thank you!

sinecearly,

Chriss Lightstrider

I'm glad to see that people agree. If you consider something like full auto from a mac 10 or even a burst shot for a AK-47 you definately know you are gonna empty the clip in a few seconds, which means that the rate of fire must be in the extremes, where as a pistol, whether a machine pistol or a standard semi-auto pistol, you know you can't quite peel off as many rounds per second, just because your finger doesnt move as fast as gas/machine assisted bolts for full auto (with the exception of a machine pistol, but that would be like the spraystick for riflemen). So just having the full auto/ burst fire options should mean that we have that faster rate of fire, regardless of wheter we have skill assists to speed up our rate of fire or not, the carbines themselves should fire that fast even for a novice (wont hit anything but hey, it will fire fast). Just hope that the Devs are reading this, cuz pistols should not get the speed enhancement in the next patch, the carbines should. I don't speak for all the carbineers (obviously) but i would like to see SPEED rather then ham cost off sets. I got used to the ham cost, but a rate of fire increase, now that is something very desireable. Those DXR6's with 4speed or the Borked Elites with 4speed just doesnt cut it for a fully auto weapon IMHO.

my 2 creds

Zhuge Liang

Tarquinas

When you look at pistoleer, carbineer and rifleman profs, carbineer is the slowest shooter of them all.

Carbines and rifles both get the shaft in the crafting process, meaning no bonus from having multiple power handlers (or even krayt tissues).

Carbines are currently the least damaging ranged weapon out there.

I posted some calcs in another thread, and basicaly if you want to shoot your carbine at hard cap as a master carbineer your carbine has to have a speed of 2.5 (5.0 if you take BH carbine IV only). BH IV combined with speed from carbineer means you can ignore speed.

Imho buffing the carbineer up to 80 speed as a master would make a world of difference, those 20 speed mods seem like very little, but it is actually the reason why there currently is the 2.5/5.0 difference as stated above.

It seems like being in between pistol and rifle means that we get the disadvantages of both.

The Scourge of the Alliance

The Black Plague

Eryn GreyWolf

I just checked this again today, and I want to say that I'm proud of my fellow Carbineers here. I see this as the most broken class in the game, but still you guys take the handicaps willingly and push on. HAM, specials, weapons, and the lack of common sense in some of the developing in this game. Well done, all. To reiterate the point of this thread, again carbines should be the fastest gun out there. I forgot who that fast, but one of you made a very good comparison with the Mac 10 / machine pistol statement. Good job. I haven't noticed this very hard fact posted in any of the development fixes, although they address the speed issue of the weapons. I suggest we get this to SOJ's attention, our carbineer correspondant. In fact, I'll make that thread myself. Show some support for it, and maybe it'll happen. Good luck and good hunting, all.

New view on carbine speed.

Carbines basically shoot the same bullets as pistols, right? Yet they do higher dmg. This is to represent the burst abilities of a carbine.

Now, go home and borrow your crazy, recluse uncles AR-15 and go out in the woods. Pick a target. And shoot three shots at it as fast as you can. How long does it take you to get back on target?

Now takeone shot with a 9mm pistol. Time to get back on target? Most likely about 60% of the time to do it with the carbine.

BTW, I don't buy into the theory that a pistol can be 1.0 sec by itself. I've seen one sec. pistols in the game and it's retarded. Nobody is getting back on target that fast until they're an expert in their field. According to recent posts, this is being fixed though.

Yeah, you could spam autofire all over the place with a carbine. But you would probably hit every tree in the woods and miss your target. The recoil is too great to stay on target for more than about 3 shots.

Automatic weapons do shoot fast, which is why you get full-auto, and other specials which simulate this.

The delay on a weapon in SWG is more a measure of usability. In a close-quarters gun fight with moving targets, it is far easier to aim and shoot a pistol than an automatic weapon. That's why pistols have been used throughout history as sidearms in close quarters combat.

While someone with an automatic rifle can pop off X rounds per second, while a trained gunfighter cannot hope to achieve the same output, the gunfighter is better able to aim and fire an accurate shot in close combat, whereas the carbineer is spraying the landscape with bullets and gets maybe 1 or 2 good shots in.

BTW, this concept is why many automatic weapons have a three-round burst setting...out of a salvo of X shots taken via automatic fire, only the first 3 shots usually have any sort of accuracy and are the likeliest to hit...the rest are just wasted ammo, as the recoil renders the shots totally inaccurate.

Also, this is why you see movies in which a guy's getting shot with automatic fire, but he dodges every shot, then turns around and pops the shooter in the head with his pistol....it's far easier to be accurate with a pistol than a machine gun. However, the machine gun can lay down heavy suppression fire, provide cover, and mow down a group of infantry, whereas the pistol is rather useless in those areas.

So...the 4-5 delay on a Carbine basically simulates the fact that while you may be taking 80 shots, only a very small number of those shots have any sort of real accuracy to even have a chance of hitting the target.

In the end, really, it's a matter of balancing. Rifles are slow and powerful with specials geared towards 1 shot kills and field position (concealment), Pistols are fast and weak, with specials geared towards defense, and Carbines are the middle ground, which specials geared towards squad tactics (suppression fire, full-auto, cover fire, etc.)