Carbineer Archive
Thread: My duel with a BH / MRifles
Carbineers = teh r0xk
Be proud you were one of the early ones!
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed."
[...]and I did my "/duel;/chargeshot" trick to get him down and throw some MCM DoTs and Thyroid Rupture on, and after a short while I won and incapped him.[...]
- you can't heal when being on the ground
- when we start the fight, we're both at full and similar health
- i up to now never have been killed within the time of a knockdown
Most of the duelists open up with a knockdown, allowing them to get more damage on me, but not killing me. By hitting the recovery button, i usually get up within sensible time. Many opponents, mostly BHs, even make the mistake of trying to put additional states (stun, dizzy, blind) on me while i am prone. As my recovery button actually is a macro which does all recoveries in a row, i usually clear the states while getting up, so they just wasted shots where they could have inflicted more damage.
Now we're both on our feet and i counter with chargeshot. (If i am grouped, i first issue volleyfire for increased damage on target.)I use the time he's down to inflict damage and move to my prefered range. (Most painful for pistol wielding enemies or melee fighters.) The time when the opponent gets up i hit bactashot and stimpack.
This way i end up with a nice health advantage (wouldn't i have bactashot available, the use of a stimpack with 1100+ healing capacity still would give me some advantage) and at the range i prefer to fight at. The only requirement then is to win the fight before the knockdown immunity time is over, but usually this can be done.
Message Edited by Sylow on 07-11-2005 12:59 PM
)
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Never dueled against one yet, only saw one working on my side when we cracked some bases... the only relyable way i currently see to win against a CM is to use your superior range... and with Carbineer in his build, this advantage is easily overcome by chargeshot...
MCM is a very lethal profession. It is support, but it also has the ability to control a single opponet so well that it becomes an offensive skill that rivals the others like Carb and Rifle.
Sylow wrote:
Never dueled against one yet, only saw one working on my side when we cracked some bases... the only relyable way i currently see to win against a CM is to use your superior range... and with Carbineer in his build, this advantage is easily overcome by chargeshot...
MCM is a very lethal profession. It is support, but it also has the ability to control a single opponet so well that it becomes an offensive skill that rivals the others like Carb and Rifle.
Correct. Stay out of their range to paralize. If you get paralized its over. The trouble is that a BH with CM has riflerange and underhand. A Rifleman and CM has kneecap. A Carbineer and CM has charge shot and cripple shot. A pistoleer and CM has stopping shot. Its hard to stayout of that death/paralize range when they have skills like that.
Now, there are some with these temps that don't know how to use the, but the ones that do are far mosre devastating.
Your action and mind do not regen so once they are down, you can't run and you can't heal. They just have to outlast your action bar, and when they can cycle healing between bacta shot and bacta spray, the 5 or so shots you get off before your action is gone are easily healed.
KJFett3 wrote:
Sylow wrote:
Never dueled against one yet, only saw one working on my side when we cracked some bases... the only relyable way i currently see to win against a CM is to use your superior range... and with Carbineer in his build, this advantage is easily overcome by chargeshot...
MCM is a very lethal profession. It is support, but it also has the ability to control a single opponet so well that it becomes an offensive skill that rivals the others like Carb and Rifle.
Correct. Stay out of their range to paralize. If you get paralized its over. The trouble is that a BH with CM has riflerange and underhand. A Rifleman and CM has kneecap. A Carbineer and CM has charge shot and cripple shot. A pistoleer and CM has stopping shot. Its hard to stayout of that death/paralize range when they have skills like that.
Now, there are some with these temps that don't know how to use the, but the ones that do are far mosre devastating.
Your action and mind do not regen so once they are down, you can't run and you can't heal. They just have to outlast your action bar, and when they can cycle healing between bacta shot and bacta spray, the 5 or so shots you get off before your action is gone are easily healed.
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 07-12-2005 11:10 AM
Polizei wrote:
Recently one of my friends challenged me to a duel. I'm not sure if he's still Master BH, but I think at the time of our duel he was MBH/MRifles. In the first duel, he challenged me and I did my "/duel;/chargeshot" trick to get him down and throw some MCM DoTs and Thyroid Rupture on, and after a short while I won and incapped him. After my DoTs wore off, I challenged him and he ran out of range and used Cover. I ran near some crates, but he shot me before I got to them and broke his cover. I Chargeshot'd him again and after a short battle won. Even when I was just around CL75 I had to duel a Master CM to get a skill from him and nearly won (had him within one shot of incap). I attribute this to being a Carbineer. We're fast, we strike hard, and we have some of the coolest attacks (I spammed Full Auto Area in the Rebel server-raid of Bestine with good results, and Improved Leg Shot does excellent damage at a low attack cost).
Carbineers = teh r0xk
Just curious, was your MRM / MBH friend an experienced PvP'er?
ie: Was he using a good SAC powerup on his rifle? Did he have a good1050+ maxdmg krayted rifle (which are not hard to come by at all these days)? Did he use any spices / foods? Did he have any doc buffs? (Few things in the game can put out damage like a MBH / MRM with a doc's Adrenal Boost for a buff).
I've got quite a bit of experience using my MRM / MCM and a good BH / MRM deals so much damage so fast it's not even funny. They make me want to go beat up on a melee'er just so I can feel redeemed. 
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 07-12-2005 11:18 AM
DanteTheMagnificent wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
Sylow wrote:
Never dueled against one yet, only saw one working on my side when we cracked some bases... the only relyable way i currently see to win against a CM is to use your superior range... and with Carbineer in his build, this advantage is easily overcome by chargeshot...
MCM is a very lethal profession. It is support, but it also has the ability to control a single opponet so well that it becomes an offensive skill that rivals the others like Carb and Rifle.
Correct. Stay out of their range to paralize. If you get paralized its over. The trouble is that a BH with CM has riflerange and underhand. A Rifleman and CM has kneecap. A Carbineer and CM has charge shot and cripple shot. A pistoleer and CM has stopping shot. Its hard to stayout of that death/paralize range when they have skills like that.
Now, there are some with these temps that don't know how to use the, but the ones that do are far mosre devastating.
Your action and mind do not regen so once they are down, you can't run and you can't heal. They just have to outlast your action bar, and when they can cycle healing between bacta shot and bacta spray, the 5 or so shots you get off before your action is gone are easily healed.
Actually, it's not the be-all end-all that you're saying it is (unless the paralyze recipient is melee, then it's over.)
Paralyze lasts long enough to lay down two states. And they have to be chosen wiseley. If the CM tries to stick a third on the paralyzed target, they'll be getting hit during that third one. And MCM is by no means an 'i win' button vs ranged.
While I admit I am not a CM, several in my guild are, and they do manage to stick more than 2 things on before the timer. Maybe they are able to paralize again...either way, when they are finished, you are debuffed in all ways with DOTs being all thats left to toss on you.
The CM's only real weapon vs ranged professions is thyroid rupture, which will slow your action regen. Outside of that, CM's get terrible defenses, and won't have the nice +speed +acc mods that someone with duel combat templates (like MRM / MBH) will have.
3 different types of heals on 3 different times...with stims on top of that...they more than make up for a lack of Melee/Ranged defense. Spd and accuracy are not asbadly needed either when so many debuffs and DOTs are running.
Just use a good SAC powerup on your weapon when fighting this template, and it'll actually slightly more than make up for the thyroid rupture.
No 22% SAC reducing PU will make up for a 50% reduction in action regen.
From then out, it'll be a question of doing fast damage to the CM to keep him on the defensive and healing. Due to their low defense, that's what most of the fight will be - them on their heels healing, throwing in an attack or two then having to heal more. Even with spices/foods for mind regen, the CM will run out of mind (as the healsare a bit heavy on the mind cost when you have to use a few in a row).
Going on the offense when you have debuffs killing your action regen while they can heal all the damage you do during that time is not a good idea. In the end, you have no action, almost no health and they still have a full action bar...and likely half mind if they have any idea what food to eat. (and no, you cant eat enough food to 100% negate the 50% reduciton to action regen.)
The CM's best weapon is psychological. The stigma that got attached to them pre-CU. So if someone gets a DOT thrown on them (which is a waste of action/mind - the CM can do more dmg for the cost using two specials with their weapon) they tend to panic. You can easily shrug off CM dots these days.
A DOT is nothing to be laughed at. It is steady damage that you can not dodge. It hits no matter how far away you get. You do eventually have to heal it witha stim.
Which is good, since I shelfed my MCM during the Uber days as it was no fun. Now it actually takes skill to win with one, and the low defenses really keep you on your toes.
+110 melee defense and +125 ranged defense for MCarb/MCM
+145 melee defense and +170 ranged defense for MCarb/MBH w/stims
There really isn't some huge lack in defense here. a slight drop in ranged melee defense but healing a lot more than the 1/min stimDs that the MBH is using? No, it is not suffereing from lack of defense.
However, a CM/Ranged template will slap around melee like they took the last cookie. Electroylte drain is a very dirty snare which leaves a melee'er McScrewed. And the unwary CM that ends up in melee range and gets an armor break / kd / impale or adv critical on them deserves the inevitable incap.
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 07-12-2005 11:10 AM
KJFett3 wrote:
DanteTheMagnificent wrote:
KJFett3 wrote:
Sylow wrote:
Never dueled against one yet, only saw one working on my side when we cracked some bases... the only relyable way i currently see to win against a CM is to use your superior range... and with Carbineer in his build, this advantage is easily overcome by chargeshot...
MCM is a very lethal profession. It is support, but it also has the ability to control a single opponet so well that it becomes an offensive skill that rivals the others like Carb and Rifle.
Correct. Stay out of their range to paralize. If you get paralized its over. The trouble is that a BH with CM has riflerange and underhand. A Rifleman and CM has kneecap. A Carbineer and CM has charge shot and cripple shot. A pistoleer and CM has stopping shot. Its hard to stayout of that death/paralize range when they have skills like that.
Now, there are some with these temps that don't know how to use the, but the ones that do are far mosre devastating.
Your action and mind do not regen so once they are down, you can't run and you can't heal. They just have to outlast your action bar, and when they can cycle healing between bacta shot and bacta spray, the 5 or so shots you get off before your action is gone are easily healed.
Actually, it's not the be-all end-all that you're saying it is (unless the paralyze recipient is melee, then it's over.)
Paralyze lasts long enough to lay down two states. And they have to be chosen wiseley. If the CM tries to stick a third on the paralyzed target, they'll be getting hit during that third one. And MCM is by no means an 'i win' button vs ranged.
While I admit I am not a CM, several in my guild are, and they do manage to stick more than 2 things on before the timer. Maybe they are able to paralize again...either way, when they are finished, you are debuffed in all ways with DOTs being all thats left to toss on you.
Nah, most of those states have relatively short durations. (with the exception of electrolyte drain which literally lasts like 90 seconds). Hemorrhage, Thyroid Rupture, etc will begin blinking out by the end of a second paralyze. They'd not stick long enough to ever affect anything if the CM stuck back to back paralyzes in order to try to stick every debuff. CM has to choose 2-3 states tops to use. And applying those states (or the gimped DOTS) and tossing paralyze around all chew up mind, and lots of it. Mind that will be needed for healing as well. That's why a good CM will only stick 1-2 debuffs anyway, the ones that will most affect the target. Anything more is a waste of mind and will end up in them dying.
The CM's only real weapon vs ranged professions is thyroid rupture, which will slow your action regen. Outside of that, CM's get terrible defenses, and won't have the nice +speed +acc mods that someone with duel combat templates (like MRM / MBH) will have.
3 different types of heals on 3 different times...with stims on top of that...they more than make up for a lack of Melee/Ranged defense. Spd and accuracy are not asbadly needed either when so many debuffs and DOTs are running.
Again, "so many debuffs" - any more than 1-2 are a waste of mind. And so are the DOTS, with the exception of maybe fighting a TKM with a COB macro, since the DOTS will ignore the mitigation. On any other target, the DOTS are wasted mind pool, when you could be doing damage by spending action instead, which regens faster.
Just use a good SAC powerup on your weapon when fighting this template, and it'll actually slightly more than make up for the thyroid rupture.
No 22% SAC reducing PU will make up for a 50% reduction in action regen.
Resources must suck pretty bad on your server then. I use nothing less than 28% SAC pups, usually 30-31% when I can get them. And the debuff is 40%, not 50%. So a 30% pup coupled with food + spices = counter to the debuff plus some (and if you throw in a doc regen buff, it exactly negates the CM debuff - so then you're WAY ahead).
From then out, it'll be a question of doing fast damage to the CM to keep him on the defensive and healing. Due to their low defense, that's what most of the fight will be - them on their heels healing, throwing in an attack or two then having to heal more. Even with spices/foods for mind regen, the CM will run out of mind (as the healsare a bit heavy on the mind cost when you have to use a few in a row).
Going on the offense when you have debuffs killing your action regen while they can heal all the damage you do during that time is not a good idea. In the end, you have no action, almost no health and they still have a full action bar...and likely half mind if they have any idea what food to eat. (and no, you cant eat enough food to 100% negate the 50% reduciton to action regen.)
See above - already negates this.
The CM's best weapon is psychological. The stigma that got attached to them pre-CU. So if someone gets a DOT thrown on them (which is a waste of action/mind - the CM can do more dmg for the cost using two specials with their weapon) they tend to panic. You can easily shrug off CM dots these days.
A DOT is nothing to be laughed at. It is steady damage that you can not dodge. It hits no matter how far away you get. You do eventually have to heal it witha stim.
Sure, eventually. But while you're using the 6 seconds to lay down two mediocre dots (yes, the CM actions are on a slow timer, it may be 2.5 instead of 6, but it's slow nonetheless), you've already eaten a TON more damage in that time by a knowledgeable ranged player. Unless that CM has a disarming shot / startleshot - but that just breaks when the first DOT is applied anyway, like paralyze. Again, the DOT is only worth using on someone with super high defense and/or mitigation. (since it 'll tick away with its mediocre damage ignoring the mitigation).
Which is good, since I shelfed my MCM during the Uber days as it was no fun. Now it actually takes skill to win with one, and the low defenses really keep you on your toes.
+110 melee defense and +125 ranged defense for MCarb/MCM
The overhwhelming majority of which is coming from Carbineer, not MCM. Thought we were talking about CMs, not carbineers here? Either way, that's still pretty low. My MRM / MCM is even worse. When good ranged PvP'ers run around with 350+ accuracy, this won't do.
+145 melee defense and +170 ranged defense for MCarb/MBH w/stims
See above.
There really isn't some huge lack in defense here. a slight drop in ranged melee defense but healing a lot more than the 1/min stimDs that the MBH is using? No, it is not suffereing from lack of defense.
:30 sec stim D's if they're using foods. And anyone worth their weight in s**t will use delaying shots, KD's, and such to buy a few extra seconds here and there so they can use that next stim.
However, a CM/Ranged template will slap around melee like they took the last cookie. Electroylte drain is a very dirty snare which leaves a melee'er McScrewed. And the unwary CM that ends up in melee range and gets an armor break / kd / impale or adv critical on them deserves the inevitable incap.
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 07-12-2005 11:10 AM