Carbineer Archive
Thread: What the H*ll
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Xiomburg
Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:10 am
#1
I'm just being a little upset here.
Ok, why is it that a Brawler, TKM or any melee combat profession can dodge any of our attacks and we in turn cannot dodge or anything against theres. I shot at a TKM today who promptly dodged 15 of my 18 attacks when at range. Then I was knocked down from about 15 to 30 meters out and started getting a whoppin. Ok, I was not able to dodge a single attack (our counter attack as carbineers do against ranged attacks). Oh, and he was able to chew right through my armor for about 800 points and I wasn't even able to do over 200 with the single critical shot I got in, dizzied him with Confusion shot and then nailed him...well not nailed, but hit him with knockdown and wasn't able to knock him down.
So I guess the question is: Why do melee characters get an advantage over our Ranged Attacks and there Melee Attacks against other brawlers and we get nothing? How is this fair for any ranged combat class and is this being looked at for the next publish to make them more prone to our attacks our ranged proffessions getting a bonus against melee combat.
And in case your wondering I am a BH 3/4/0/0 and Carbineer 4/4/4/3. Hitting is not a problem, I'm at +170 and my speed is at +105.
TheRealJacx
Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:55 am
#2
wait for combat revamp, also look at your defences you have none against melee.
ScarletPhoenix
Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:56 am
#3
For now, I'd suggest looking into Thakitillo (Def. vs. Knockdown +100) and Citros Snow Cake (Accuracy + 40 or so). Flameout or Burnout wouldn't be a horrible idea if you can kite pretty well, otherwise get some more long-term damage mitigating food. Use Brandy to pump up your mind and muon if necessary. I dunno how he was doing 800 through your armor unless he switched to a stun baton and you had non-stun composite. That's always the problem I have.
TAfirehawk
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:06 am
#5
This is real simple, either pickup Pistoleer 0040 and/or kite them....
I laugh at melee most of the time...
And if a TKM was eating thru your armor, well your armor flat out sucks.
3D4D
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:13 am
#6
Sheesh!
Get some frikin tacktics!
Tera Kasi suck in PvP.
You probably lost because:
A) You had the wrong armor
B) You weren't buffed
C) You didn't Kite
D) You didn't have a melee class of your own
E) All of the above
Now let me go through each one.
A) You need to have good armor if you want to last at all in PvP. You left out a lot of facts that could help us help you out such as what weapons, armor, andbuffs you used. I assume you weren't using the right armor because if you have high kinetic armor then the TK shouldn't be ableto touch your HAM.
Solution:
Get some good Composite or if your on a low budget then go with about 70% ubese.
B) I didn't read anywere saying you were buffed, but I assume that both you and the TK were buffed. Going unbuffed into combat is just stupid.
Solution:
Never go into serious combat unbuffed.
C) Didn't sound like youwere kiting the TK. That is the biggest mistake you made. No way should you have let the TK get within20 meters of you. Doesn't matter how much you miss as long as the TK isn't in melee range.
Solution:
Kite as often as possible and use burst run when the enemy uses burst run. Keep your distance at all costs. Also try to keep out of buildings where the TK can trap you.
D) You didn't have a melee class of your own. lets say your a master Carbineer. You still have enough points left after master Carbineer to pick up another combat profession and enough medic to use stim Ds.
Solution:
I suggest that you alter your template to give you some melee defence. That or hope that combat balance gives BH some melee defences.
Also the Melee figher was probably a Master TK / Master Brawler / Master Fencer. You didn't get beat by just a TK, you got beat by a Master brawler due to the Lunge 2 that knocked you down. I speculate that the TK was also a fencer, because a normal TK doesn't have that kind of dodge. Center of being doesn't do anything for a TK. That leads me to belive that it was a fencer as well. In which case you should have ran for your life rather than fight. Fencers are far more dangerous than TKs in PvP with the stun batton.
Message Edited by 3D4D on 06-16-2004 08:16 AM
TAfirehawk
Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:53 am
#7
Yeah that modifier for Ranged hitting Melee Defense is but one piece of a puzzle I hope to see soon.......MELEE IS NOT STAR WARS, RANGED IS AND THE CURRENT SWG SITUATION IS BACKWARDS AND NEEDS FIXED ASAP.
The Devs went down the road of MMORPG Melee instead of STAR WARS......plenty of other MMORPG's out there where Melee is King.....
Jedi and Ranged Profs ruling the Galaxy need to happen to keep the Star Wars in SWG 
piezo
Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:59 am
#8
Even getting dizzied/kd by a tka is no bigdeal.
You can still do all your actions/attacks while on the ground. Just alternately spam stand and the hotkey for the attack or action.
The other day i got dizzy/kd, so i spammed stand and firekd(you can use equiv carb specials if you dont have bh). It dizzy/kd the tkm, so we were both flopping on the ground. hehe. I got up before him, and ran off, blasting away, and killed him quick.
jfang
Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:36 am
#9
TAfirehawk wrote:
Yeah that modifier for Ranged hitting Melee Defense is but one piece of a puzzle I hope to see soon.......MELEE IS NOT STAR WARS, RANGED IS AND THE CURRENT SWG SITUATION IS BACKWARDS AND NEEDS FIXED ASAP.
The Devs went down the road of MMORPG Melee instead of STAR WARS......plenty of other MMORPG's out there where Melee is King.....
Jedi and Ranged Profs ruling the Galaxy need to happen to keep the Star Wars in SWG
*backspace* *backspace* *backspace* (Hmm...)
I think part of the problem is that SWG was one of the first games MMORPGs in which ranged combat was supposed to be the main type of combat. In most fantasy MMORPGs (especially SOE's other flagship game, Everquest), melee is the mainstay, and casters/archers are there to supplement it. What I mean is that the primary scene of conflict has two opponents at point blank range (even if the actual combatants are wizards which are attacking from behind the lines).
If guns work as they should though in SWG, opponents would be "far away" from each other when attacking. So there were lots of balance/AI/style changes which needed to be implemented, such as the ease of kiting, and dealing with surprise attacks. (If somebody attacks you in Coronet from 65m, it is hard to immediately engage the person.)
My impression is that they tried to model combat after a standard melee paradigm, and ran into these problems. When they did, they fell back on tried and true MMORPGs ideas to try to compensate (eg. melee gets a bonus when they can successfully engage a ranged attacker), but those ideas were meant for a melee-based game. And as time went on and more tweaks came into play...
But that is just my personal theory as to what happened, which is based more or less on speculation. For all I know there were a ton of ranged MMORPGs, or the rise of melee could have been by design by the devs...
Easy-Exanip
Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:23 am
#10
Pick up novice brawler. Intimidate them then can not dodge/block/counterattack, then stun them and thier ranged defense will drop also, and you will reduce thier damage by 75%. Use that warcry to get away also.
Xiomburg wrote:
I'm just being a little upset here.
Ok, why is it that a Brawler, TKM or any melee combat profession can dodge any of our attacks and we in turn cannot dodge or anything against theres. I shot at a TKM today who promptly dodged 15 of my 18 attacks when at range. Then I was knocked down from about 15 to 30 meters out and started getting a whoppin. Ok, I was not able to dodge a single attack (our counter attack as carbineers do against ranged attacks). Oh, and he was able to chew right through my armor for about 800 points and I wasn't even able to do over 200 with the single critical shot I got in, dizzied him with Confusion shot and then nailed him...well not nailed, but hit him with knockdown and wasn't able to knock him down.
So I guess the question is: Why do melee characters get an advantage over our Ranged Attacks and there Melee Attacks against other brawlers and we get nothing? How is this fair for any ranged combat class and is this being looked at for the next publish to make them more prone to our attacks our ranged proffessions getting a bonus against melee combat.
And in case your wondering I am a BH 3/4/0/0 and Carbineer 4/4/4/3. Hitting is not a problem, I'm at +170 and my speed is at +105.
MoonhellWarriors
Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:46 am
#11
carbineer requires alot of practice and skills... good weapons and a good understanding of your weapon. Personnaly since I mastered Doc.. I am back on top in pvp
i'm able to heal any states and that helps alot, I have a full stun armor or a 80% resist to all armor so i'm good in most situation. My only weakness was my mind but with my stats, buffs, food/drinks and spice.. I can clim my mind up to 4.5K and with a nice steak of 43% damage reduction.. I'm good for a while
Also, every carbine I have in PVP have 50+ idea range mods and that HELPS alot...
My current sets of carbines are...
2 krayt laser carbines... 70-380 damage with 2.1 speed... I usual add a speed power up and use them when my targets are on the floor. Low range mods but still around +23 at ideal
1 Krayt DH17 carbine ... 3.1 150-540 damage with +71 range mods... this baby KDS krayt dragons lol.
DX6 carbine, I never checked the stats on it... I only use it for the idea range mod... +40.. it's a good weapon when I need to stick some stuff on people while doing damage.
EE3 carbine... low damage... fair speed but.... Fire DOT 250 damage, 202 sec duration and 80% potency... this babies does a huge difference
As my armors... I use a full set of 80% resist to all except Stun but if I require my macro will put my full 45% Stun armor and the base stats for the rest are around 70%... My 80% armor has many attachements... the chest plate gives me +9 carbine ACC... other parts will give me
My food....
Brandy 420 Mind buffs with 49 fills...
Canape with 620 mind buffs...
Steak with 43% damage reduction...
Xiro for extra +25 acc..
Muon if I require extra help...
Pixies for emergencies...
Here's my other stuff that comes only if your a doc hehe...
- A full set of buff for me - 870 buffs... that's a 2.4K buff per stats.
- A full set of state heals... so nothing can stick on me for too long...
- Stimp E
- Poison cure: 520 effectiveness... I heal anything in one shot
- Disease Cure: 480 effectiveness...
My combat style relies on kiting... We cannot kill someone in one shot, unlike Rifleman... We require skills to be effective in PVP.
- First... i'll stick some Fire on my target
- I will then switch on my DH17 carbine and start spamming some Autosingle shots... The second you stick stun, Dizzy and blind will soon follow... This is when I start getting busy... This is why you need good armor and you need to know how to stay alive.... This is the critical part, where you will dominate or die...
- This is a tricky part... I will start using some charge shots or some Action Shot 2.... it will not always work but 90% of the people I will fight will fall... If they fall... things will start going good for me. If he's not KDed... I keep using my DH17and start the autosingle spam again...
After that... you rely on your skills and your weapons, trying to keep the enemie away from you and you keep moving around while shooting him. Never stop moving unless your doing a cripple shot or a charge shot. When your target is on the ground... Laser carbine comes in action, when target is up... stick with fast carbines and ideal range.
good luck
La-grange
Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:39 pm
#12
Doesn't matter. When I was master rifle/TKM/pistoleer 4-2-4-2 I was pretty much maxed out on melee defense and still got hit any time I diddn't block. The answer is in the last publish. The devs added a 2.5x modifier to hit in melee vs ranged. So in other words if you are maxed out at 125 melee defense. That modifier makes 125 melee defense act like 40 melee defense if you are holding a ranged weapon. Nice of the devs to think of us.
In the case of carbineer we are screwed. And I share your template to a point. I have +190 accuracy and +115 speed though the speed is moot. I can hit a fencer with my DXR6 about 50-60% of the time. But my DXR6 also has a +65 ideal mod at 22m.
Word of advice. Don't stand still. keep moving. Use that +30 accuracy while moving. And above all. Keep moving. Also one of a carbineers strengths are in the number of posture changes we have. you don't necessarily have to spam them (not advisable anyways). Just pop one in every now and then. Once they are on their back open range and pummel the heck out of them.
In the case of carbineer we are screwed. And I share your template to a point. I have +190 accuracy and +115 speed though the speed is moot. I can hit a fencer with my DXR6 about 50-60% of the time. But my DXR6 also has a +65 ideal mod at 22m.
Word of advice. Don't stand still. keep moving. Use that +30 accuracy while moving. And above all. Keep moving. Also one of a carbineers strengths are in the number of posture changes we have. you don't necessarily have to spam them (not advisable anyways). Just pop one in every now and then. Once they are on their back open range and pummel the heck out of them.
Message Edited by La-grange on 06-17-2004 12:41 AM
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