Carbineer Archive

Thread: Don't allow your profession role to be dictated by group level mitigation

Envoy3113
Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:47 am
#1

Post your concerns in the most active thread regarding this topic. Link is directly to page 17 which has a pro vs con list, but please read the first page aswell, as the OP did an amazing job at evaluating the current CU system. Also buried in there is indication that although group level caps at the highest member, defensive mitigation is calculated past that IE: 3 level 20's will take less damage grouped than they would solo. Numbers are also present on the first page which have pre-grouplevel patch calculations, which as shown per example are still belived present post patch. Keep it clean and don't feed the trolls.


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=TestCenter&message.id=128481&page=18



There comes a time in every mans life when 86 years is just too damn long...
Envoy3113
Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:48 am
#2


Post your concerns in the most active thread regarding this topic. Link is directly to page 17 which has a pro vs con list, but please read the first page aswell, as the OP did an amazing job at evaluating the current CU system. Also buried in there is indication that although group level caps at the highest member, defensive mitigation is calculated past that IE: 3 level 20's will take less damage grouped than they would solo. Numbers are also present on the first page which have pre-grouplevel patch calculations, which as shown per example are still belived present post patch. Keep it clean and don't feed the trolls.


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=TestCenter&message.id=128481&page=18



There comes a time in every mans life when 86 years is just too damn long...
TAfirehawk
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:03 am
#3

All the modifiers in groups are being tweaked.....and the concept of grouping for SWG in the CU will not change, it is in fact one of 2-3 basic changes that must happen.


The CU = death of solo play as we know it on LIVE......or SWG will be closing servers within 12 months.


Personally the concept of damage mitigation and levels is good....it just needs to be tweaked which is hard to do with the current foo-bar on TC with so many bugs. I can't even level up in Carbineer if I wanted with the core specials going POOF....somebody get the can of RAID



Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

Envoy3113
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:21 am
#4

Agreed...to a degree...


The details of which were summed up nicely by a poster who stated essentially that 'the devs took out the big brush on this one'. There is every indication that the defensive modifiers apply to everyone in group equally, thus being said what is the real reason for a tank? What is the point of maintaining aggro when a mob will hit the medic, or the rifleman just as hard as they hit TK or Swordsman (pre armor). Seeing that we are essentially past the novice testing stage and this system is still moving ahead it begs to be stated that defensive mitigation is to be applied cross-profession effecting everyone in the same manner. As a Carbineer are you going to be locked into a group role where your are just spamming the highest level special? Or are you going to be keeping an eye on your target so that the moment the main tank starts getting beat down you fire that cripple shot to provide the backup tank just enough time to take over while the main tank regens...There is nothing dynamic or tactical in a system that is applying the SAME defensive modifiers across all professions.


I know you specialize in damage control, but if the base foundation seems crooked so will be the floors, walls and roof. the stove, bed and tv...It's obvious that we don't know what this spells for high level encounters, yet the ledge is extremely drastic in mid level situations, either way, they may have this balanced for high end but low to mid is off by miles. It's a big concern to alot of people and the devs have done extremely little to do anything other than confirm the concerns. But we are testing, thus it is a focus thread, large enough to be noticed so opinions are wanted. Out of everything else that is being changed the majority of the posters see the level based mitigation as the major factor of whether or not they think the CU will be sucessfull, past the icon, effects and xp gains.



There comes a time in every mans life when 86 years is just too damn long...
Sylow
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:39 am
#5







Personally the concept of damage mitigation and levels is good....it just needs to be tweaked which is hard to do with the current foo-bar on TC with so many bugs.



I think in this point you are wrong. The level system overrides the complete mechanic of defence modifiers and anything similar. The fact that HAM stages up with your CL, combined with the modifiers, should be sufficient game mechanics without the level-modifiers.


This system renders defensive modifiers useless and seems to also invalidate most (if not all) of the states, so the choice of profession again is mostly the race for maximum DPS. This seriously hampers most professions and is the deathblow to the Squad Leader profession, which supposedly is considered to be in the center of the CU.


In my eyes the level of an NPC should be used for the calculation of it's stats and modifiers, but should not be used in comparison with the level of the attacking person.








Learn to sing!
Infinity - Papyn Biboon
MSL, MCarb Grunt Leader
TAfirehawk
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:41 am
#6






Sylow wrote:






Personally the concept of damage mitigation and levels is good....it just needs to be tweaked which is hard to do with the current foo-bar on TC with so many bugs.



I think in this point you are wrong. The level system overrides the complete mechanic of defence modifiers and anything similar. The fact that HAM stages up with your CL, combined with the modifiers, should be sufficient game mechanics without the level-modifiers.


This system renders defensive modifiers useless and seems to also invalidate most (if not all) of the states, so the choice of profession again is mostly the race for maximum DPS. This seriously hampers most professions and is the deathblow to the Squad Leader profession, which supposedly is considered to be in the center of the CU.


In my eyes the level of an NPC should be used for the calculation of it's stats and modifiers, but should not be used in comparison with the level of the attacking person.








The plan is for Defense Modifiers/Tanks to take more damage, so like everything else it is TEST CENTER and being tweaked



Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

Sylow
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:45 am
#7







The plan is for Defense Modifiers/Tanks to take more damage, so like everything else it is TEST CENTER and being tweaked



I understand the point, but i just see this system as inherently flawed. I sure will give the game some time for testing when the thing goes life, but my optimism is severely limited, both due to several apparent flaws (with this one striking out) in the system and the marketing-made hurried nature of the complete process, whichobviously leads to a hurried development withapparent lacks in quality control.

Message Edited by Sylow on 04-15-2005 05:46 PM






Learn to sing!
Infinity - Papyn Biboon
MSL, MCarb Grunt Leader
Envoy3113
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:55 am
#8






TAfirehawk wrote:





Sylow wrote:






Personally the concept of damage mitigation and levels is good....it just needs to be tweaked which is hard to do with the current foo-bar on TC with so many bugs.



I think in this point you are wrong. The level system overrides the complete mechanic of defence modifiers and anything similar. The fact that HAM stages up with your CL, combined with the modifiers, should be sufficient game mechanics without the level-modifiers.


This system renders defensive modifiers useless and seems to also invalidate most (if not all) of the states, so the choice of profession again is mostly the race for maximum DPS. This seriously hampers most professions and is the deathblow to the Squad Leader profession, which supposedly is considered to be in the center of the CU.


In my eyes the level of an NPC should be used for the calculation of it's stats and modifiers, but should not be used in comparison with the level of the attacking person.








The plan is for Defense Modifiers/Tanks to take more damage, so like everything else it is TEST CENTER and being tweaked





Thats exactly the reason alot of people feel it needs to be nipped. You of all people know of the lack of foresight regarding things such as ohh lets see...Pets, defensive stacking, dots, warcry, armor construction, buffs, mitigation, legendary weapons, FRS, hologrinding, recursive macros, the list goes on. Either you know alot more than you put forth TA or you are just being pacient and waiting for the storm



There comes a time in every mans life when 86 years is just too damn long...
SeanBlader
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:59 am
#9






TAfirehawk wrote:


The plan is for Defense Modifiers/Tanks to take more damage, so like everything else it is TEST CENTER and being tweaked



Shouldn't they take less damage because they have melee modifiers for evasion, bocks and kinetic armor defense? I can see them taking more hits than ranged, for the obvious spatial reasons, but taking more damage is backwards.


And I dislike damage mitigation by levels. It seems to me like an artificial way to limit the flexibility of the players agressiveness. Someone can't be very tenacious with good armor a good weapon and some amazing tactics and go out and go after that orange con creature if they're dead in 2 hits because they aren't high enough level. Getting hit by a babydurni regardless of what level you are for 2000 just isn't right.




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Experience the greatest Star Wars saga ever told -- yours.
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TAfirehawk
Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:53 am
#10

The point is to work through the problems, not go off half-cocked and spam other forums and whine. Not saying that is what is happening in this thread, but we all know the majority of posters in other forums are overreacting.



Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

mrmark200000
Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:47 pm
#11






TAfirehawk wrote:

The point is to work through the problems, not go off half-cocked and spam other forums and whine. Not saying that is what is happening in this thread, but we all know the majority of posters in other forums are overreacting.




have to agree its kinda scary how people can make their minds up so soon about that.....seesh the CU hasnt been out all that long and people are soooo over reacting........tells you how manyy people actualy know what 'beta' means




Smugger alliance Pilot.





Jedi In the NGE. I like. cool Melee

need some tips for the CU? want to learn good tatics for group fighting and soloing? send me a tell, mrmark, eclipse server.

TAfirehawk
Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:08 pm
#12






mrmark200000 wrote:





TAfirehawk wrote:

The point is to work through the problems, not go off half-cocked and spam other forums and whine. Not saying that is what is happening in this thread, but we all know the majority of posters in other forums are overreacting.




have to agree its kinda scary how people can make their minds up so soon about that.....seesh the CU hasnt been out all that long and people are soooo over reacting........tells you how manyy people actualy know what 'beta' means







But it also goes to show just how "raw" the CU is right now too.....



Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

GiacomoCagiva
Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:37 pm
#13

Thats one thing thats got me worried, its been up about 2 weeks and has many of the sameissues from day one and they only have 3 weeks left.
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