Carbineer Archive

Sure, and why this forum needs help:
Hitting return doesn't move you to the subject line, it puts up an empty post so you look like an idiot. Like I needed help.


Anyway.

A carbine is a version of a full-sized rifle. Typically they were made and issued to officers, so that the officer would have a similar, but lighter gun. The idea being that the officer would not be under as constant and heavy a fire as the mainline infantry, and would need to be more mobile. Usually the caliber of the weapon is stepped-down so that the barrel can be smaller and lighter, but not always. Usually the mechanism for loading and firing is identical, but sometimes they were made smaller to accomodate the smaller ammunition and to decrease the overall size and cost of the firearm. The rate of fire of a carbine is largely identical to a rifle. The magazine capacity is equal to or greater than a rifle. Both rifle and carbine magazine capacities typically exceed pistols.
Why? A pistol is a last resort. It gives more flexibility at close range, but lacks accuracy and punch.

I think the developers need to sit down and review their concept of carbineer, and make the numbers fit it. In all deference to the hollywood-i-ness of the game, if you own/fire a pistol (which I do, and frequently target shoot) and a carbine (again, yes), you'll know that you can fire any stocked weapon (carbine, rifle) much more accurately at speed than a pistol. Why? Re-acquisition of sight picture. The heavy rifle/carbine doesn't move as much, and has a longer sight path, meaning is it more resistant to angular change. The pistol is light, and has a sight path about 6" long (varies by model, obviously) that is very reactive.
Once a stance has been set (at the shoulder or in the triangle depending on your weapon) accurate fire is probably the fastest with a rifle, then a carbine, then last a pistol. The real advantages of a pistol are concealability, flexibility for closer-quarters or ranges, and speed-of-stance. You can get a pistol ready to fire a lot faster than you can a rifle, and you don't have to unsling a pistol; their holsters are usually very accessible. You can use a pistol (or a carbine, since they're usually significantly cut down) in a narrow hallway, or from cover, much more readily than a rifle. If you have to duck back around a corner, or down behind a curb, the smaller gun takes less time to swing around and get a sight picture.
Think I'm wrong? Hunting season is opening here in NY state, as it is probably in your state. Find/observe a hunter, and see which gun he takes. If he takes a pistol at all, it's a backup. The reason? Even stalking hunters don't need to move and shoot. They need accuracy, and knockdown power. Pistols don't have that.

What are my reccommendations? Take the high-accuracy specials out of pistols. Leave them to BH, they deserve something like that. Make a good/master Pistoleer be someone who takes good advantage of cover, reacts quickly, and has the best rate-of-fire that the damage allows. Let them target any pool, favor one if you must.
Make carbines your rate-of-fire weapon. Make the damage better than a pistol, worse than a rifle. If we're firing fast, we won't be more accurate than a pistol. Give us specials that are one-shot-accurates, but make them take more time. If we have to favor a pool, make it body because it's the best, biggest target on most creatures. When you do fix our ROF specials, let them actually do area damage. Yes, a guy with a submachinegun should also hit his allies when he sprays a room with automatic fire.
Rifles... as is. Crappy ROF, big damage, head-targetted if they must. I'd still give them a body and leg shot, it's silly to have a rifleman incapable of picking a different target.

Developers may want to consider a 'limbering', 'shouldering' or 'unholstering' command. We all carry our guns around in our hands, but in a civil society a gun in hand is pretty unheard of. They should be stored/holstered typically, and you'd see the true speed of a pistol if there had to be a 'draw'. With my carbine, I may only have it low-slung and need to grab it, but the pistol will be faster. A rifle... forget it, getting that beast to your shoulder will earn you three shots in the chest from the pistoleer.

Just my relatively random thoughts.

-FL

but well thought out randomness i must say ^_^

Good post, good points. There are a lot of places you can search for to take a look at modern carbines like the M4. (many people seem to look at the first page they find and think that carbines are still mounted infantry weapons or some other archaic variety.) Modern carbines are often used as special forces weapons for the reasons listed above. The accuracy is good to about 800m or above and the rate of fire exceeds 800 rounds per minute easily. They can be equiped with pretty much every mod available to rifles up to and including grenade launchers and bayonets. The accuracy at range exceeds that of pistols significantly, and the stopping power is immense due to the rate of fire. They are not as stable (heavy and long) as full rifles but the compromise is minimalized as well as possible. They are small enough and light enough though to be ideal for guerilla fighting- typically in close quarters as in dense urban or jungle areas. Carbines in the game should reflect these properties for suspension of disbelief if for no other reason. (Although much needed balancing is a mighty fine reason.) Carbines should have a superior rate of fire, but reload as slowly as a rifle. They should have high damage, although not as much as a dedicated heavy machine gun which would have to fall into the rifle category. The autofire should also lend to high "accuracy" while mobile although the damage should be decreased while moving as the entire burst will not likely hit a man sized target. While lacking the draw speed and portability of the pistol and the raw power of the big rifles, the carbine is much more versatile than either of them performing very well in almost all situations.

Yeah, so what we need as well is magazines and consumable ammunition. Won't happen, because they'd probably increase the database size by at least 10%, maybe more.
You're right about the range though, and 64m in real life is a long pistol shot, but a cinch with a rifle or a cutdown.
'Max Range' should be more like 50m for pistol, and identical for rifle and carbine... manybe 100m. They'd probably have a big problem pushing reliable spawn and position reporting information out that far though, 64m seems to be quite difficult for their servers at some points. They could then apply a minimal negative modifier for the carbines at low range, and another small penalty at long range. Carbines should at least have ROF advantages, and it still boggles me that a pistol is a faster shot than a submachinegun.
If they could build in a reason for concealing weapons, or drawing weapons, the pistols would have a more realistic role. I don't mind doing less damage per shot than a rifle, but we really should be very much like them... smaller damage, better speed, but much more like them than pistols.

Good post, thanks for visiting.

-FL