Carbineer Archive

Also carbineer should be all projectile weapons there should be no laser carbines.

We should have a Acid projectile weapon (DXR6), A kenetic projectile weapon (Nym's/Chaingun), Astun projectile weapon (EE3), and a Cold Projectile weapon (e-Leet-Carb)

Jhor

Just a note that this topic is on how to make the carbineer a distinct profession compared to other combat classes, not a call to ask for fixes to specials, which will a) probably get fixed in the combat overhaul and b) might not even exist after the combat overhaul.

I like your ideas nova, but I believe that some of the ideas you had would make our class overpowered for the skillpoints we would use. I believe the following would be the best things that could happen to make our class stand out.

Charge Shot 2: Fix this special. Make it AoE KD, and Remove its Silly Animation...same for Charge Shot 1, Make it Either a Different Name, or Make it so its More of an Overcharge Type of Thing....Either Way, the Animation Needs to be Removed.

Scatter Shot (1&2): I believe that these work well, save for the fact that the combat spam reports it as 1 damage, but thats just a bug. The onlly improvement I would add to this special is to make scatter shot 1 hit 2 random pools, and scatter shot 2 hit 3 random pools. This might already happen, so correct me if I am wrong.

Crippling Shot: I believe the speed modifier on this needs to be lessened, and a dizzy mod needs to be added to it. It also needs to hit action and mind.

FAS 1&2; FAA 1&2: These need to add dizzy randomly, just like with all the other status effects. They also need to have intimidate added as an effect. All in all however, I believe these are working well, save for bug fixes.

Action Shot 2: This special needs to posture change to Prone, rather than just Kneel. As in, the description can be, "Hits both legs of the target, making them unable to stand or kneel". Still needs to bleed.

I believe novamarine had really good ideas for the rest of the specials. Also, for the master box, I believe we need a KD/Dizzy move in one shot.

What do we ask for that is realistic, balanced and fun that keeps with the mindset of our class being the "crowd control" of the game.

Obviously this means we should have the most AoE specials out of all the professions

Now we have very good AoE damage with Full Auto Area 1 and 2(especially with the incoming HAM reductions)

When they fix Charge Shot 2 We will have a very good area Knock down

Now what we need is an AoE state attack, something like Full Auto single 1 and 2 but with reduced damage but inflicts a random state like stun, blind or dizzy(dizzy that actually works) . The damage must be greatly lower then Auto Area 1 and 2 or else people would just use this new attack over Auto area

Also Supression Fire 2 should be AOE and remove the timer so you can actually suppress targets into the prone position.

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Derchuka wrote:

"Ideally, the carbineer hanging back, uses Suppression fire and or charge shot....once the enemy has been suppressed or blasted off their feet the melee and close combat troops charge forward, the carbineer then supports from range laying down fire using Area Auto...."

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I'm just gonna agree with this...

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OmniReaperr wrote:

I like your ideas nova, but I believe that some of the ideas you had would make our class overpowered for the skillpoints we would use. I believe the following would be the best things that could happen to make our class stand out.

Crippling Shot: I believe the speed modifier on this needs to be lessened, and a dizzy mod needs to be added to it. It also needs to hit action and mind.

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1) don't overpower the class; 2) give our high-damage special a faster speed, a valuable status mod, and make it hit mind?!

I think that was by far the most overpowered suggestion made yet.

I do, however, like the idea for a KD + dizzy shot for master.

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Burnham wrote:

3) Crippling shot needs to "cripple" in some way other than high damage.

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I want to reinforce the logic in this grammar. "Other than" high damage -- in other words, "as well as," or "in addition to." I've been advocating that cripple shot should have a status effect of some kind added to it, but not at the cost of its damage. If that sounds too powerful, move it to master. However, my bread and butter is our current cripple shot, and we need *something* which does damage, so we aren't entirely a support class; I'm not always surrounded by friends!

Whatever happens, please don't recommend that the speed of CS be increased, as the devs will either reject the whole idea or lessen the damage. I think high-damage moves should be slow. If I need speed, I can just shoot at the target.

I think the best idea, to be safe, is to keep CS just like it is (I love it as it is, really, slow or not), but add a CS2 with some cool goody(ies) to master. That would solve several problems at once.

I'd like to not need BH Carbine to be a fast-firing assault trooper.

I think Carbineers need to have...aside from spellchecks, the ability to be that assault trooper. Commando is not supposed to be the frontline unit, that should be delegated to the assault options of Carbineer.

I'm down at the Novice Carbineer level so am not going to talk about specials. I'm just going to say how I feel the gun(s) should work.

Pistols are quick, snapshots, designed to be down in a quick fire health draining firefight. its up close, personal and in your face.

Rifles are long range (64m?) high damage, low rate weapons. They hit rarely, but hard.


For carbines it's the "pin them down, pick them off" concept. We use action pool draining to limit the enemy effectivess, state changes to keep them down, and slowly drain them away. It's an automatic weapon, it should manage this against crowds with only slightly less effectiveness that is has on a single opponent.

So I think carbines should target action pools. Most Actions (duh!) require an action cost (special moves, tumbles etc). By being able to target and reduce this we remove our opponents ability to use grand strategy back and make it a plinking match.

The AoE specialist idea sounds great.

Personally I've always considered the BH carbine and carbineer to be "brothers" of sorts.

If you look at the BH carbine specials they are for doing one thing. Control of a single target while carbineers were control of multiple targets. The BH carbine specials perform knockdowns and status effects on a single mob. For the most part carbineer specials do the same thing and I like the vision of making Carbineer an AoE crowd control/status effect unit.

This game is still able to be play solo but with profession distinctions they are making grouping look a LOT more appealing.

For the most part carbineer specials do the same thing and I like the vision of making Carbineer an AoE crowd control/status effect unit.

oops

that should read

For the most part carbineer specials do the same thing on multiple mobs and I like the vision of making Carbineer an AoE crowd control/status effect unit.

Ok, just read the post here on damage mitigation which explained how speed work.

I think an important criteria for Master Carbineer - nobody should fire faster or be more accurate than Master Carbineer. The master Carbineer is the most accurate, marginally.

Looking at the skill tree's comparing Carbineer and BH.. I know a BH needs to be good, but there strength is in vesatility of weapons.

However.. maximum "pure" Carbineer speed

25 from Carbine Specialist (novice marksman, carbines 1 thru 4)
5 Novice Carbineer
20 Carbine Assault 1 thru 4
10 Master Carbineer
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60

Compared to BH:

30 Master Marksman
10 Carbine Specialisation 1,2 & 4
20 Carbine Specialisation 3
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80

I think those totals should be reversed, +5 for each level on BH, +10 for each level on Carbineer. A BH is good with carbines along with other weapons, but not as good as a dedicated user. (Same would apply to the pistoleer profession.)

Well, to be honest, satanis, the whole BH modifiers issue needs to take a cue from melee profession's toughness. BH mods need to apply to BH moves only, and carbineer/pistoleer mods need to apply to carbineer/pistoleer moves only. Take the higher of the two (but not the sum!) and apply it to marksman moves and standard autofire shots.