Carbineer Archive
Thread: why do pistolers dole out more damage than us at greater speed?
Aram1 wrote:
Well you have to take into acount that pistols like the FWG5 and other popular pistols have no armor piercing. Granted - they are still absurd in their damage/speed, but that point must be accounted for.
At least most of our guns have AP 1, and the laser has 2(but armor piercing doesnt seem to work properly in PvP against unarmoured targets, so we lose a lot of damage there).
So if that pistoleer uses a FWG5 on you, and your wearing composite with heat resist, that gun is actually doing Damage - 50% - resist %. 50% is taken off for the armor, then resists are applied. That's a pretty big penalty.
Now if you dont wear armor - those pistols are deadly, however if you do, you will notice they do next to nothing to you. I have 50%ish composite armor(so thats 50%ish heat resist) and I fought a guy with a FWG5 earlier. He was doing almost no damage to me. So if he hits me for 400 damage, only 100 gets through. 400minus 50%(AP0 vs AR 1)= 200, minus another 50%(heat resist) is 100.
The real problem however is the combination of both absurd damage and very fast speeds, which almost negates any penalties they incur, because they can shoot so fast and hard.
I also think the armor system in this game is overly complex, and armor due to design is limited by nature. All armor has some vulerability, which means no resist. But it means more than even no resist, it means the attack is treated as having NO armor penalty, which I think is a mistake. That means you are incurring the penalty of wearing armor(which is very heft in the case of composite) but actually recieving no bonuses.
So if that AP 0 pistol heats your armor vulnerablity, it does full damage. I could understand no resists being applied - because the armor doesnt have any - but armor is armor. That's like saying if you were wearing a bullet proof vest(used to protect against .. well bullets) and were hit with a baseball bat in the chest, that it is like you were wearing nothing. It would still provide SOME protection(or actually in this example a lot).
Also given the fact that most professions get a wide range of damage types, so they can exploit any armor weaknesses(for example pistoleers and rifleman can bypass composite armor using stun weapons).
oh Okay.... Compare that to my Scatter Pistols AR1 - Armor piercing - 154 -404 at 1.6 Speed with 30 % Wound Chance...
Or better yet the new one I have 114-268 at 1.3 Speed with 31.2 % WC - Unsliced/no Power Ups.
you are right as long as the carbine has a speed of 2.5 the master carbineer will shoot as fast as a master gunfighter. This of course limits the choice of weapons for a master carbineer to the dh17.
Kd and dizzy? sorry looking at your post you got some professions mixed together. A master carbineer doesn't have a KD/dizzy special, nor does he have more than +60 speed.
Bounty hunter carbine line is not a prequisite for master carbineer, it does make the master carbineer/bh dabbler very powerful though.
I may have been mistaken but when I read these posts I got the impression that the comparison was carbineer/pistoleer, if not then the pistoleer has torso shot and eye shot aswell.
So fullautosingle does dizzy everytime now? Been a while since I used that one last and it wasn't really reliable.
Maybe its time to test it in pvp again, it never worked in pve and with latest patch not supposed to work in pve. However it does seem a tad risky to pvp on this as you need both fullautosingle and chargeshot to hit, may end up taking too much time.
Anyways dizzy did stick before, it was just removed when ai changed posture up. I.e when you hit a standing mob they would have the dizzy effect for quite some time, but if they were kneeling it would go away once they tried to stand up.
I am working on a pistoleer as a second characternow after starting and giving up carbine. I think the damage issue is not one that relates mostly to weapons. My start up character cannot afford krayt weapons and at least through a couple of skill boxes of eachcarbines were causing more damage if you are comparing to aan advanced FWG5, scout or DX2 pistol. I think peopleget the impression that pistoleers cause enormous damage mostlybecause of the combat performance of a few players with extremely high damage weapons and cross training in bounty hunter or smuggler. I also am not clear that the armor-piercing on carbines is working correctly for unarmored opponents (or pistols for that matter.
This should work itself out over time. I understand that the jazzed up pistols (FWG5s in particular) are going to be taken out of the game (see the threads in the weaponsmith and Test center forums).With even normal FWG5s knocked down in damage in comparison to existing models (a non-Krayt FWG5 on Tempest anyway seems to top out now at around 61-208 1.8 11-34-17 AP0), it is just going to be a matter of time before the 500 damage pistol is only a memory.
If you eliminate those weapons(even withoutdegrading the basic ones) it is not as thoughthe pistoleer can outdamage carbineers shot for shot. The problem with carbineers is really the excessive HAM costs (compared to fencer and pistoleer at least, which is all I really know that much about at thispoint)and the iffy special attacks, which do not seem to consistently invoke the effects they are supposed to have to the vast detriment of carbineers. Add in the melee penalty and it is just makes it less attractive. Carbineers could also use more variety in damage types in my opinion.
As to why this came about, I think that the developers just never spent the time on play balance in beta and most of the tinkering so far in the game appears to have addressed the economy and single professions that the player community thought were overpowered without really focusing on the overall role of each profession. Hopefully they will get around to this some day. I think this could end up being a marvelous game but there sure are a lot of professions that seem like exercises in futility or close to it (try dancer or fencer some day).
I dueled a friend the other day and (can't remember which carbine I was using either my Elite, Dh17, or Laser) and did two shots in a row for about 500ish damage with cripple shot. Not too bad.
I think I was using the DH17 actually. 156-256 dmg, 2.5 spd, low hams, no powerup. Great PVP gun.
This issue will become something of the past soon, currently on TC the devs have removed the power handler from the Fwg5, meaning they won't be as powerful and won't be able to have a krayt tissue added to them. This and eye shot being moved to Master BH should infact make pistoleers just right comparied to carbineers and riflemen.
Maller Malice
Mik-Kael wrote:
My friends a pistoler and bio engineer, I've seen plenty of Master Gunfighters. Skyzero dont you play on corbantis? there are several master gunfighters there. Andaril, Kurrzin Starfire... Pistoler is one of the most common ranged professions.
Yeah I play on Corbatnis... Kurrzin - never had his master pistoleer title - and always saw him carrying a flame thrower - most of the time - and then pistol launcher.
Haven't seen the other ppl.