Carbineer Archive

thank god I'm not the only one. I even have a CSR ticket in about this (as if they'll ever answer it).

tonight I experimented and knelt at ideal range trying to hit a mamian on yavin. I missed 4 consecutive times, kneeling at ideal range, even with my +75 to carbine accuracy. Total bull.

The missing is getting ridiculous. I'm missing 4 or 5 times in a row and that's just standing there. I thought it would be across the board on all weapons so I pulled out my fwg5 pistol and guess what? I hit a lot more than I do with carbine. I'd be more accepting of this if I wasn't 3-0-2-2 in carbineer and not even a novice pistoleer. SOJ, please do something about this. I've held off spending any more points or time on carbine because of all the nerfing they're doing. Real frustating to do more damage to myself in 10 sec than a nightsister can do to me in 30 sec.

well, are you a master marksman, or at least pistol4 in the marksman tree, incompetence? novice carbineers only have a +5 accuracy bonus to them, which is easily hidden and hard to notice the difference of. on the other hand, if you have no pistol skills then something is obviously wrong. just trying to keep this from devolving into a 'pistoleers can hit anything from anywhere!' thread.

at a guess...i thnk that accuracy while moving mods/bonuses we have are not being kicked in, OR, we do not receive normal accuracy bonuses while we are moving, ONLY accuracy-while-moving. obviously, we should receive both and this will likely be addressed if this is true..but if someone has accuracy-while-moving mods but NOT the normal ones, i'd be interested in the differences between attacking while standing still and moving. *hint hint* *nudges incompetence*

and yes, we did take a HUGE accuracy hit with the patch, but it seems to have affected everyone, and not just us. keeping fingers crossed, dunno why....makes it awfully hard to type, lol

Miss

Miss

Miss

Counterattack

Miss

Miss ...

ALL while I'm kneeling from ideal range.

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Forkbomb wrote:
Kaellok, if he is using a FWG5, he at least has Pistol IV...

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lol

see? never claimed to be smart, and i'm not afraid to show my ignorance...anymore.

Ok, first off, I don't like the whole accuracy issue either but it might be what the Devs have intended.

The way I see it, the main differences between the three main marksman professions are their strengths and weaknesses. Pistoleers get the fastest firing weapons and the relatively low HAM costs but they are the weakest hitter of the three. All their weapons are AP0, except for the SR Combat Pistol and the DX2 Pistol which are AP1 and does energy and acid damage, respectively. Of course, both guns are slow but not as slow as carbines can get. Riflemen get the highest possible damage of the three and the ability to target the commonly weakest pool in the battlefield (the mind) but they also get the slowest guns out there. On average, I have seen most rifles range from 5-8 second delay and that are just regular attacks, add in the delay that the specials put in and it can take a long time for your second shot. Of course, the speed is compensated for the high damage; riflemen are the only marksman profession that gets an AP3 weapon. Actually, scratch that, riflemen are the only profession that gets an AP3 weapon, last I looked. Plus they get the spraystick in case they want the fast-firing ability and don't care for the damage. This leaves the carbine in the middle.

The carbine gets some of the speed of the pistol, well-made carbines should never be slower than a rifle. Carbines gets some of the damage of the rifle, well-made carbines should not be weaker than most pistols. This leaves only the accuracy to be the remaining stat which could be the weakness of all carbines. As most have pointed out before in other threads, Carbineers do not get as much accuracy points as the Pistoleers and Riflemen so it would seem this is what the Devs intended. Since Carbineers have the best of both worlds, the damage and the speed,the weakness that they gave it was that it be the most inaccurate weapons in the galaxy.

It could also be from the fact that carbines targets the Action pool, which is what is commonly used up the fastest with all the combat specials from all the professions. A Carbineer definitely is very dangerous for someone who relies on their specials. The Devs might have thought that a high hit-rate on Action targetting weapons would be too powerful which is probably the reason that the carbine counterpart in melee (the Pikeman) also has the worst accuracy and range modifiers of all the brawler professions. I checked a Long Vibro Axes stats lately and they had, at least, -58 on the point blank range alone. Add to that the innate -15 accuracy modifier to all brawlers and is it ever a surprise that one hardly sees a lot of Pikemen around?

Ok, so I do understand why this is so and people could even pull the whole "stormtroopers from the movies" issue (high miss rate- it's no surprise Luke and Han never got hit even once if carbines are like this) but it's not right.

For one thing, xp in groups is calculated in the percentage of the damage done to the critter. With a high miss rate, carbines would commonly recieve the lowest amount of xp.

After the patch, (I only started carbine afterwards so I am not sure if the accuracy issue has always been present) it is very hard for people to go up the carbine tree in the Marksman profession without any supplementary skills (like Medic healing) and equipment. To go up in carbine, I was forced to use armor and just do regular attacks, after I got Full Auto Single1, and kill en masse the blue-conned critters of the world (Naboo) which would be the gnorts, nunas, chubas and so on. Trying to kill even-conned critters like female kaadus with either specials or just regular attacks with armor does not work because of the high miss rate where there is a good chance you will get incappacited or waste a lot of time and stimpacks, while killing 3-4 nightspiders gives out more xp at a fraction of the risk and a quarter of the time.

Anyway, very bad. Hopefully they will increase the accuracy modifiers on carbine.

Well I've been using the carbine for quite a while now, and I'm also, well only need the last 50 appr. exp for master marksman, and yes something did happen to accuracy with the last patch.

If I'm not mistaken the changes last patch was that when moving you would be harder to hit but you would also suffer from reduced accuracy.

And that certainly holds true now, when I kill a mob I always go prone or kneel no kiting, since I stop whenever I get hit and of course I miss soo damm much. However I've noticed that its not only the carbine that has problems both rifles and pistols miss more now. You will notice missing much more when firing a slower gun, so if you need to check pistol accuracy I suggest you do it with the slowest pistol you can find.

I went up the rifle and pistol branch after the latest patch (well the last 3 boxes in both) but using my laser carbine as my main weapon. And what I've noticed during this exp farming is that I have no problems hitting with any of my guns if and that's IF the mob is standing still. But as you all know they like to move around when you shoot them from a kneeling or prone position, and of course when they spot you they run towards you.

So where am I going with this? The thing is it seems that the mobs have increased defense when moving aswell - which means when they move around you'll miss more (and for some reason mobs never seem to stand still until they are right up in your face, hehe)

Basically this boils down to rifles and carbines have a quite awful hit rate exactly at the time where they are suppose to shine. Since the mobs are harder to hit for both rifles and carbines at point blank, people using one of these types of weapons rely on doing big damage when the mob is at long range. BUT its much harder to hit the mobs as they are moving around all the time thus having high defence.

For me this meant (and probably for many others) that before last patch I only had to do the pushover hit when the mob was in PB range (PB= Point Blank) meaning that the mob had 25% or less remaining in their action pool, so I only had to hit the mob once in PB range.

Now mobs reach PB range with 50-75% of their action pool left, since I (depending on the mob movement) miss 2 out of 3 shoots from long range, this means I have to do most my damage at PB, and that is NOT where carbineers and riflemen are supposed to shine. Not only do we get large negative modifiers at PB but we also take much more damage at PB.

What caused all this? well I think SOE's attemps at balancing in the pistol has left carbines and rifles even worse off, as it is now I don't think there is any strong points left for either of those, other than of course the specials but they aren't that good, when you don't hit your target (and of course some of the specials still needs a bit of looking at). I don't think that this is working as intended and I hope the devs will start looking at getting carbines and rifle up to par with the pistol.

I should mention though, that these are all findings from PVE I don't know how the situation is in PVP, but I can imagine what would happen if a pistol user got up to PB range and kept moving around - poor carbineer (and if the carbineer wins = lucky carbineer)

Well Holo asked a little while back why there were so many pistoleers, well maybe most people started with carbine or rifle but dropped it fast again. One thing is for sure I was VERY happy the day I finished my rifle IV box, I can live with my carbine but I wouldn't want to use one without having medic skills that's for sure.

Anyways this is getting long... just my point of view.

Kowo