Carbineer Archive

Yeah, we have it, but carbines can knock down snorbals at range without any danger to themselves, for us to do it have to get right on top of something, and usually take a hit or two before it works.

Well I am kind of surprised that Carbineers are complaining cause I think they got the best gun in the game now. I play very regularly with a Master Carbineer/Expert Carbineer BH on Eclipse and he is the best player with a gun I have ever seen (this includes Pistoleer/BH Hybrids), there is just no getting away from the overall higher damage a carbine can do. The multiple knockdown attacks are just a bonus and all the status attacks rule.

I will probably be going carbineer with my next character cause I see what kind of damage my friend can do (even before he had BH) and its scary.

Now you're doing the same thing the people complaining that pistoleers are overpowered cause of mind shot do. A carbineer with BH skills is VERY different from a pure carbineer, much more so than the difference between a BH pistoleer and a pure pistoleer. A master carbineer will only have a +60 speed mod, which wont cap the decent damage carbines,so the damage they do isnt all that massive. The huge increase only happens with BH carbine skills. With those BH skills the carbines will obviously be alot more damaging due to them firing at the same speed, but thats due to the speed mod system being screwed up and has nothing to do with carbineers vs pistoleers

Fear not carbineers! Disarming shot 2 is being nerfed into oblivion once the changes on the test center go live. Disarming Shot 1 and 2 now do low random HAM damage, and do not disarm a weapon, nor do they damage the condition of a weapon.

As far as Lowblow and Eyeshot go... Well, those are Smuggler and Bounty Hunter specials, so don't drag Pistoleers into it.

Fear not a pistoleer's defensive bonuses! Why? Because they're broken! Several pistoleers have done tests with friends and have found that Not once have they dodged when fighting an enemy orresisted being knocked down/stunned/Intimidated/dizzied/Posture Changed.

The melee defense isn't much good in a ranged fight, and I can vouch for the +13 melee defense not doing anything against a melee player that is at least a novice in their desired elite fighting profession, though I will admit I saw my pistoleer block a punch from a Sleemo Punk on Talus once.

Now, concerning Pistoleer's "Uber" special moves...

Body Shot 3 does LESS damage over time than Body Shot 2 (which is a Marksman skill, mind you). Pistol Melee Defense 2 does less damage than Fan Shot, requires you to be close to use, and has no status effect like Pistol Melee Defense 1's knockdown. What does that leave us with?

Double Tap does random HAM damage and not that much. Stopping Shot does nice damage but is very, slow, does the damage to a random HAM bar, and has a lower DPS when compaired to Fanshot, which also just hits a random HAM bar for decent damage at a decent rate (Our best special in my opinion.)

Point Blank Shot 2 is worthless. You have to be close to use it and you can deal out the same damage over time using Fan Shot.

Disarming Shot 1 does nothing but random HAM damage. It's been tested by at least 7 different Pistoleers and at least 15 times. After Test Center changes go live, Disarming Shot 2 (Master Pistoleer Skill) will be doing the same.

Speaking of our So called "mighty" and in need of nerfing specials, our other Master level special, Multi-Target Shot is still less effective than Fanshot and many people can't get it to target multiple enemies. When it does work it does decent damage, but the HAM cost jumps up for each target hit, making it something you wouldn't want to use that often.

I've heard point blank area shot 2 is decent, but only when you have multiple melee enemies around you. Other than that, it's useless.

Eye shot?? That's a Bounty Hunter Skill, go cry about them, not Pistoleers. Low Blow?? Smuggler move buddy, go cry about them, not Pistoleers.

You know what Pistoleers don't get that EVERY other class in the game gets?? Status changing moves. None, that's right, none of our specials cause Stun, Dizzy, Blindness,or Intimidate effects. If we pick up the ranged support line we can get a Ranged Posture change though. Yippie!

So what does a Master Pistoleer have at his disposal now?

A Melee Knockdown (Wow!)

A Bleed Attack to Health, typicaly the Largest of most people's HAM bars (Ooh!)

A Decent damaging point blank AoE attack (Holy Crap!)

A Decent damaging, decent speed Random HAM damaging attack (Godliness!)

Yes! Nerf Pistoleers! Fight on Carbineers! Those horrible Pistoleers with all their Broken specials and Defensive mods that don't do crap that you all have been jipped out of!

To recap, Eyeshot and Lowblow are good moves, but NOT Pistoleer ones. Go whine about them and not Pistol Users. Pistoleer Defensive modshave been provenworthless through multiple tests. A Pistoleer's MASTER specials are Worthless. A Pistoleer's Knockdown is Melee, not ranged. A Pistoleer gets NO status changing attacks save for a Melee knock down and a Bleed attack. A Master Pistoleer's only useful moves are Pistol Melee Defense 1 (Note how Defense 2 is worthless), Fanshot (Decent DPS random HAM hitting attack), and Point Blank Area (Only worth it when surrounded by 2 or more opponents at 12m distance) and Health Shot 2 (A Bleed attack to people'snormaly huge Health Bar)

What goes around comes around. You cry nerf, you get your nerf, some one else nerfs you.

>Funny how you didnt note that carbines do way more damage per shot. I dont really know though, Im not a carbineer.

Please. A pistoleer can spam BodyShot2 all day long. A carbineer must rely on normal attacks for the majority of his damage. Result: Pistoleer has far higher DPS than a carbineer. It doesn't matter that I can pump out a 1000pt burstshot every once in a while; a pistoleer can pump out 400+ bodyshots shot after shot.

And funny of you guys to complain about broken specials--we've had broken specials since day 1. Our LegShot3 doesn't work at all, so LegShot2 is our only decent pool-specific shot (just like pistoleers and Bodyshot2). All of our other damage shots are random HAM as well, so I'm not sure what you guys are b*tching about.

Oh, and fantabulous suggestion that we simply get doctor buffs in order to fire our weapons without incapping ourselves. Let me go kidnap a master doctor to take with me to Lok...

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Kubernetes wrote:

Oh, and fantabulous suggestion that we simply get doctor buffs in order to fire our weapons without incapping ourselves. Let me go kidnap a master doctor to take with me to Lok...

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Ever hear about food? Get some good food or drink, you can get a good boost from those. Plus there's no downtime like Spices that make you puke. When the food wears off, eat more pancakes, or whatever it is you have. Support your local chef, they need it.

I thought this was the carbineer forum? Please bring your pistoleer gripes to the pistoleer forum and we'll help educated you..I'm not kidding, we know a LOT about pistols.

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1. The best thing about carbineer is of course knockdown, well did you know pistols can do knockdown after getting low-blow (Smuggler) i believe. Other guns may be able to use these Smuggler attacks, however, the pistol tree is the required tree for smuggler, and it also takes pistol xp for novice smuggler

Best thing about Carbines? You're joking. You don't just get knockdown, you get AOE KNOCKDOWN. You get state effects AOE, you get state effects in general. You have higher AR rating weapons to boot. We get ranged knockdown through smuggler? LOL, you get better defenses, mind hits, and meditation through TKA, see how that works? Don't forget, we use to own your AOE knockdown, we know EXACTLY how good it is.

2. The best thing about rifles is they can attack the mind pool, well did u know with eye shot (Bounty Hunter) pistols can do the same.

Pistoleers dont get it, BHs do, that's an issue with either stacking (which carbines do as well), or BH eyeshot.

3. Of course everybody knows what weapon we start with.

lol, strike this, it's a joke.

4. Elite carbinesarent even close to as big a step up to other carbines as the DX2 is to other pistols.

Really now, that's why our forum is filled with "Why in the heck does the DX2 suck so bad" posts.

Elite Carbine base stats are higher, you just need a better elite carbine is my guess. Elites should be higher DPS than ANY pistol from pistoleer with equal quality/experimentation. Again, you also have the choice of AR2 weaponry, we, do not. In fact, the DX2 is a piece of garbage on most servers, with max damage of 130-150 at peak. It's also got ideal range of 0m..lovely. That is, it's accuracy is best at 0m, and gets worse ever meter past that.. I suspect there is an issue with resources if you don't have a carbine that's better than the DX2.

5. The mods for pistoleer skills are huge compared to carbine (these dont count Marksman mods only the mods gained in the profession)

Well, we already discussed this. The professions aren't about "mods", heck, if it were you'd just grab TKA + Carbineer and have the best of both worlds. The fact is, we have redundant special attacks, defense that doesn't work, and we give up state effects, AR2 weaponry, and now...AOE knockdown. and you add up stun/dizzy/KD/posture change, etc., as if they all individually mean something important. Pistoleer is a mix between ranged and melee. We got some melee defenses, that currently do nothing for us, NO STATE EFFECTS, NO RANGED KNOCKDOWN, and certainly now, no AOE knockdown or AOE state effects, nor anything better than a hard to craft AR1 weapon for high-end weaponry.

Please, take our super powerful skill mods to state effects, and return our AOE knockdown, and it will be...not fun right? You deal out state effects, we don't. We have defenses vs state effects, you don't. OMG, call me crazy but that looks reasonable at first glance. But actually you do too if you pick pistoleer, TKA, Fencer, etc., etc. again, see how that works? You'd have both aoe KD, state effects AND you'd have higher defense? Hrm.

Master Pistoleer (full)/Master Carbineer

Accuracy....................................+45/+55

Speed........................................+49/+35

Acc. While Movin.......................+30/+30

Aiming........................................+16/+4

Dodge........................................+30/+0 Doesnt work, if you like it get fencing or pistoleer

D(efence)vsStun.......................+20/+0 doesnt do anything

DvsDizzy..................................+20/+0 doesnt do anything

DvsBlind....................................+20/+0 doesnt do anything

DvsPostureChange...................+20/+0 doesnt do anything

DvsKnockdown..........................+30/+15 doesnt do anything

DvsIndtimidate.............................+0/+15

MeleeD.........................................+13/+0

RangedD......................................+5/+5

Counterattack................................+0/+20

Acc. While Standin......................+15/+0 you should lump this in with all accuracy

Defenses do absolutely nothing right now, sorry, I was a master pistoleer over a month ago, and anyone that uses a good state effect, spams it. Defenses do nothing. Dodge, does nothing. If you are jealous because we have higher defense, you are mad at what's on paper, not what is actually affecting the game. I.e. you're upset about nothing.

You mention smuggler and BH pistol. This has nothing to do with pistoleers.You can choose TKA and have superior defenses, mind hits, etc., to couple withyour AOE suppression fire, or AOE knockdown,while we're off taking smuggler + unarmed specjust to geta single target ranged knockdown.

Seriously, I think the best thing you could spend your time posting about is fixing CARBINEERS, not making rash statements abouta profession, mixed in with 2 other professions, that you don't fully understand. That's just my opinion of course.

If you have mastered carbineer and have THE BEST weapons available on your server AND you also pick up BH carbine for the extra skill mods, I suspect you won't have as much of an issue when you compare yourselfto other professions. Have you seen high-end carbine styles with an AR2 weapon firing at 1.0 speed? You might start calling for carbineer nerfs if you see that in action coupled with your AOE crowd control...

The biggest problem I saw was with pistoleers have AOE knockdown with the ability to spam it, and it's stacking delay (all of which are about to go POOF), melee knockdown being spammable (immunity timer, again, going POOF), and as a result, they XP'd faster than most carbineers, and thus, you have more capable pistoleers running around on average. You can't compare yourself to master pistoleer + master BH as a novice with a poorly crafted gun, sorry.

And FYI, get doctor buffs, then you wont' have HAM cost issues (i.e. you get the superior specials AND have no downside when buffed..we cannot magically get better specials through doctor buffs as pistoleers...unfortunately for us). I buff my stamina and qui for about 1200-1500 with average packs.

master BH = master BH pistol..of course

Just as a note about pistoleers XPing faster than carbineers with pistol whip, carbineers getan equallyoverpowered move for exping, if not more than that, actionshot2.. Why everyone wasnt exping with just that is beyond me, but it seemed to be faster than pistols overall Of course, that's getting nerfed with the timers as well

unfortunately these boards have boiled down to "no-one listens when we ask to get our class fixed but they do listen when people cry for nerfs - so lets just get the other guys nerfed instead of us fixed"

Lol seen a link and had to come here.I'm not here to troll but i have to add my 2 cents in as a pistoleer because the poster of this thread is so way off base.Im going to adress these in the order the original posetr did

1) 1st off low blow is a smuggler skill !! the poster himself clearly states this so why does he make it an issue?You dont even need to take a single block of pistoleer skill to get this its a tottaly different profession!!

2) BH mind shot. Please see above it's another special from a non pistoleer class that requires absoloutley no pistoleer skills to obtain.

3) they give people pistols as a starting weapon.Well they got to give people something to start with or should we all start using unarmed combat to begin with?Personally im in favor of everyone starting with a cdef pistol, rifle and carbine so they can decide what they want to play with off the bat.

4)Elite carbine vs DX2. Please my buddy is running around with a speed sliced laser carbine that does over 100 more damage and has a higher AR rating then my damage sliced DX2.Granted I don't know a ton bout the elite carbine perhaps its not as good a weapon as the laser carbine, but then again neither is the DX2 when compared to the FWG5.So this is pretty much even.

5) differences in Mods.Yes we get more mods bonuses too bad all our defensive ones DON'T WORK!! Not to mention carbineers get state effects which pistoleers don't.This is what you call a trade off.We get mods but no state effects and vice versa for you guys.Once again it evens out.

So as you can see out of 5 isssues the poster brought up concering the pistoleer the 1st three have absoloutley nothing to do with pistoleers!!And the last 2 even out as they were intended too.I rarely post on another profesions board but seeing so much misinformation being targeted at pistoleers upsets me.

Obvisously Vaderbaiter, you dont know how bad we carbineers have it. Half our skills dont work, our accuracy and speed mods dont even come close to what pistoleers and riflemen get, Our insane HAM cost over pistols and rifle with the same HAM costs. Try playing a carbineer for once, you'll see then that we are the most non-functioning profession in the game. Yes we get KD, but the bread and butter skill we get is Area KD which isn't even Area and doesn't KD. U've missed the purpose of this post and he's dead on what is going on in other professions.

Seriously, that's just incorrect.

You and the orignal poster have already said it, along with the report you sent in, why change your tune now? The campaign should be, FIX CARBINEERS. We are all behind you on that.

1. Many of the Carbineer specials are broken - WHY AFTER MONTHS of gameplay , are they still not fixed? They were 100% never tested or fixed from beta. how is that possible? If carbines are in ANY way balance if these are fixed, then they need to be fixed LAST MONTH. Here's how you test it. Fire the special. Does it do what it's supposed to? No - send to programmers /Yes - release SWG. :/

2. Defenses don't work for anyone, there is NO WAY you need more defense to compete. You read the character builder and though "omg, everyone has better defense, we must need more defense then". That's fallacy, don't waste your time wanting something for the wrong reason, and something that doesn't impact balance anyway (which is ironic).

3. HAM cost - Don't carbines get double-shafter with HAM cost? Your special attacks have a very high HAM multiplier on them, do you have a list of what that multiplier is? How about your weapon selection...what is the average HAM cost associated with the top-end Carbines? When you multiply these two together, exactly how much higher is it than rifle/pistol? 300%? 200%? In any case, I think the fact that you have high action in TWO Places, makes me think someone maybe didn't think it through (or at least that it wasn't straightforward), and IMO, showing clear evidence that the HAM costs are FAR higher than other ranged professions is a good start. We have seen evidence of confusion in things like the speed forumla, it's entirely possibly that someone didn't realize 1*2 for pistols = 2.0 modifer, and the slightly higher, 2*3 for carbines = 6.0, over THREE TIMES the HAM cost (wild guessing).

Seriously, you folks got the royal shaft by having specials that DO NOT WORK. Pistols had THE BEST melee knockdown, and THE BEST ranged knockdown, we lived the good life. That is 100% true. And 100% unfair (it will also be removed). Our specials are broken too, but we have some that work, and that are high-level, so we aren't left out in the cold. That too is unfair, but breaking us isn't the answer. Fixing Carbineers IS the answer. I'd much rather include a note on our issues post that says "PS: Fix the Carbineers, they are hurting" rather than have to listen to "nerf pistoleer for all the wrong reasons" gripes.