Carbineer Archive
Thread: Guys, PLEASE help pursuade me to keep Master Carbineer...
Rorenikibi
Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:44 am
#14
CripplingShot - Great for PvE
ScatterShot2 - PvP standard
I agree with the sentiment, having a Master title doesn't mean you know a damned thing about this profession.
This is not a profession that lives and dies by floaty damage numbers. We are disablers and controllers. Contrary to popular opinion, we have a number of specials that manage to affect a target's ability to protect themselves and a very cherished and functioning Cone KD attack. For a pure Master Carbineer, speed is everything. From power ups to slices to weapon crafting, your first priority is to get your weapon speed down as close to the cap as possible and rely on rate of fire to get as many states applied to your target to disable them, then you can go in for the kill.
You can't think like a Rifleman orPistoleer or any of the brain numbed melee professions. Rampant special spammingof one cannon-style shothere is going to get you killed quick with little damage to your opponent.
If you're not someone who can look at the array of specials in the Carbineer profession and see an application for every one of them, then this isn't your gig. Go for one of the other professions where you can carpally tunnel yourself on one special and get results.
Message Edited by Rorenikibi on 07-14-2004 09:44 AM
Utuppie
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:00 am
#15
Its what I like about carbineer, we dont have anything that is uber, but many many specials that acutally work and we can argue which is the one to use 
TAfirehawk
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:04 am
#16
Variety is the spice of life, and there is a lot more variety in Carbineer than any other ranged prof....
Dizzey
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:39 am
#17
Hmmm.. I don't see why people see Carbineer as weak - I find the total opposite.
I'm currently a 3/4/4/4 Carbineer (working on getting last box then master) and a 0/4/0/0 Bounty Hunter.... using a 400 damage laser carbine (before powerup), I can kill Bull Rancors in solo groups with 4-5 shots using crippling shot... note, that's 4-5 seconds it takes to kill 1 cus I have over 90 speed, thus I have reached speed cap for crippling shot...
I'm sorry but I just don't see how being able to kill 2 bull rancors at 63 meters before they can even reach me in melee as "weak".
I often grab my slugthrower instead and get the job done just as fast... heck I often use my old e11 enhanced just to spare my laser carbines from condition.... I clear out a 32k reward mokk mission on dantooine in under 20 seconds by running and spamming burst2 at the crowd.
I haven't tried any other combat profession except for TKM -- but I sure as heck know my TKM couldn't kill anywhere near that fast.
novamarine
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:42 am
#18
Dizzey wrote:
Hmmm.. I don't see why people see Carbineer as weak - I find the total opposite.
I'm currently a 3/4/4/4 Carbineer (working on getting last box then master) and a 0/4/0/0 Bounty Hunter....
Because you are not a Carbineer. You are a hybrid of BH and carbineer and that is a totally different profession.
TAfirehawk
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:44 am
#19
Dizzey wrote:
Hmmm.. I don't see why people see Carbineer as weak - I find the total opposite.
I'm currently a 3/4/4/4 Carbineer (working on getting last box then master) and a 0/4/0/0 Bounty Hunter.... using a 400 damage laser carbine (before powerup), I can kill Bull Rancors in solo groups with 4-5 shots using crippling shot... note, that's 4-5 seconds it takes to kill 1 cus I have over 90 speed, thus I have reached speed cap for crippling shot...
I'm sorry but I just don't see how being able to kill 2 bull rancors at 63 meters before they can even reach me in melee as "weak".
I often grab my slugthrower instead and get the job done just as fast... heck I often use my old e11 enhanced just to spare my laser carbines from condition.... I clear out a 32k reward mokk mission on dantooine in under 20 seconds by running and spamming burst2 at the crowd.
I haven't tried any other combat profession except for TKM -- but I sure as heck know my TKM couldn't kill anywhere near that fast.
Thought I should highlight that in case anybody missed it.....having BH with Carbineer is in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM the same as being a Carbineer.....this has been a much talked about topic....
You can not take a hybrid template and then just assume that Carbineer is now UBER.....doesn't work that way, sorry.
Carbineer is not as good as you lead us to believe and at the same time is not as bad as others say it is either.
Cellieb
Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:17 am
#20
Well I am glad this topic has promoted some discussion. Some people however are missing the point of my thread.
First and foremost I am a MCH - these skill points are lost for good. I CANNOT go Master Carbineer and BH 0/4/0/0 so telling me how great that is is wasting my time.
I am well aware of the playing style required for a Carbineer to be effective but I am a MCH - PvP is NOT where I am going to be spending my time. With this in mind applying states and things is not AS important to me as it is other carbineers.
I know my speed sucks and this is why I am seriously contemplating the suggestion made at the top of the thread. I know it means I am not a master Carbineer but it does give me the speed to be able to survive. Even at the speed cap though I just cannot see how it is possible to kill a Bull Rancor so fast 
So in the end it comes down to this - Drop Carbineer and go Rifleman or go Carb 0/4/3/4 and BH 0/4/0/0. I am concerned at losing Scattershot2 but I have no choice. With the extra speed wont Cripplingshot be better anyway in PvE?
Thanks again for the input
TAfirehawk
Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:27 am
#21
States are important to keep your pets alive, so don't think they are PvP only. I could take my two uber kinetic tank pets, with them buffed, and never need to heal them if I used states against the ER's.....but without states it seemed they dropped health quicker....oh I wasn't using Intimidate either 
If you can afford it, a few SEA's and Krayt Carbines with Imp Stocks make up for all the BH Carbine Mods....or close enough
ScatterShot2 and CripplingShot will be about the same for you in PvE....but you will be using the Cone Effect Specials....FullAutoArea2 and BurstShot2 as a MCH.
Rarool
Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:18 am
#22
Guys,
Give up the ghostcome come to the darkside... BH 0400 is calling you and the pool is just beautiful over here *wink
(muhaaaa to all my carbineer friends)
The insanity of 200 accuracy and over 100 speed is just to insane.
Lol... I still can't get over ful auto 2. I think it's the besetst thing that ever happened to me... I can't tearmyself away to try much else yet... (1 box till Master) woot.
Message Edited by Rarool on 07-14-2004 09:19 AM
Dizzey
Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:45 am
#23
Well look... MCH and master carbineer should be doing just fine, even compared to my BH/ master carbineer character... the only difference is rather than firing crippling shot every 1 second, you are firing every 1.5 - 2 seconds or so I figure.... yeah, about 50% slower or more, but by no means "weak" for non-pvp... the fact is you should never be in danger because you have a powerful pet keeping the meanies away from you... so all you gotta do is go out to 50m or so, go prone and plug away with crippling shot and weaken them with full auto 2 so the pet lasts longer.
You have the comfort zone of a tank, meaning your casualty rate should be low compared to mine -- me? I have to run and gun constantly if a swarm of enemies come for me - it can get hairy, especially since I can only wear a helmet and chest armor (anything more raises the HAM costs so much on carbines that you're basically killing yourself bit by bit with each crippling shot you fire)... so rather than emptying a group of enemies in 20-30 seconds like I would, you need maybe 40 seconds to a minute... big deal, you're at least safer while doing it than me though.
Learn to examine your target, find its lowest armor and use the appropriate gun --- Laser Carbine/Elite for energy, DXR6/Slugthrower for acid and EE3 for heat... then start firing crippling shot or even scattershot (very useful attack as well)... make sure your weapons are of decent quality and sliced and you should be managing just fine.
One thing I will conceed--- the early stages of carbineer are FRUSTRATING ... slow killing, lots of misses at point blank and max range and somewhat weak specials early on.... but it gets more and more rewarding the further you get - byt the time you are 3 or 4 in all trees or even master, you shouldn't be having any problems at all if you use some decent tactics.
Sy-nar
Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:46 am
#24
Bh is the inexpensive way to make carbines speed cap.
If you can afford the +25 speed, accuracy, accuracy while moving, and CA, then you are golden.
You are left with about 100 or more skill points to toy around with.
You can go into doc and cm with these points.
Dizzey
Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:57 am
#25
Oh, as for killing the bull rancor in 4-6 shots (4-6 seconds), the reason it works for me is cus I start with a knocdown attack while prone (fireknockdown.. although if youi use chargeshot you have to stay standing) ... it usually knocks it down 70-80% of the time, at that point using either my damage sliced slugthrower with powerup or damage sliced lasercarbine with powerup, I can fire about 4 crippling shots while it is on the ground (which grants double damage) ... each crippling shot that lands while it is on the ground hits for around 3k damage .. by the time it stands up I fire 1 or 2 more for 1k damage about and it drops dead.
At this point its friend sees me (remember, it takes enemies about 5 seconds to see a target that is prone once it starts shooting) and starts running to me. I stand quickly, run the other way, knock it down and repeat the process..
80% of the time or so I kill both bull rancors before they get within 50 meters of me. The other 20% of the time I kill them within a few seconds after they reach me and land no more than 2 or 3 hits on me (note I am constantly running during all this).
A MCH doesnt even need to do this since his pet will hold their attention. Lean back, relax and plujg away at the rancors -- a master carbineer should still be able to kill them at a comfortable speed, even without BH carbine.
The key though is to get crippling shot... and while scatter shot 2 is also very good, I find it kills tough enemies much faster (I can't get the same results using scatter shot 2 on the rancors using the above mentioned tactics... both usually reach me before the first one dies - but the primary target usually drops within a second upon reaching me.. but istill have a full, healthy rancor to deal with after that... so it is clear to me crippling shot is stronger--- but costs more HAM, so yo may want to go easy on wearing armor .. even with buffs, your mind pool will be guzzled VERY fast with full set of composite)
TAfirehawk
Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:01 am
#26
Sy-nar wrote:
Bh is the inexpensive way to make carbines speed cap.
If you can afford the +25 speed, accuracy, accuracy while moving, and CA, then you are golden.
You are left with about 100 or more skill points to toy around with.
You can go into doc and cm with these points.
Very well put....
/emote feels Golden