Carbineer Archive
Thread: I watched something that really upset me yesterday...
Nagabacca
Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:21 am
#14
Yea, i've seen the same happen with NS Elders.
Go get 'em Nova 
Agnius
Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:19 pm
#15
I use to be a carbineer/bh for a long time. After fully understanding i served no purpose to high lvl encounters other than a burden to my friends because lack of defenses. I have switched temp. to melee (swordsman), waiting for the combat rebalance.
As melee, tk skills can knockdown an elder. the most important status effect intimidiate, works with little problem on high-end encounters. Warcry works well on high-end counters (don't knock the skill has many useful application) As a carbineer not once could i stick any status on an elder/protector/queen/krayt, or any positon change/knockdown either. Best thing about carbineer is status effects, and i thought in a group this is one useful thing I contribute, but i was wrong melee has a far easier time getting status to stick, and knockdown and other posture moves are more successful.
I know this post is about jeedai, but just wanted to state melee also has the upper-hand on carbineers.
A few months ago, i tried attacking a kimo as carbineer solo for kicks, got my has handed to me, in no time flat (and should of).
Today as a swordsman/doc, travel in lok, ran into a kimo layer, swang at it a few times. 2 giant kimo popped, aggroed me, 3 enraged kimo in distance aggro aswell. total of 5 kimo's on me. Not once did i have to heal, and no point where 5 kimo's beating on me served any threat to me (never dropped below 90% hams). It made me laugh, that now with less than half my skillpoints in combat proffession, i am 100times more effective in combat, than when all my points where in combat skills master bh/carbine. can't wait till combat rebalance, until then encourage carbineers to temporary become swordsman or rifleman. The difference is insane, maybe when the realize 1/2 the server has become either swordsman or rifleman, maybe carbineer will be fixed.
As melee, tk skills can knockdown an elder. the most important status effect intimidiate, works with little problem on high-end encounters. Warcry works well on high-end counters (don't knock the skill has many useful application) As a carbineer not once could i stick any status on an elder/protector/queen/krayt, or any positon change/knockdown either. Best thing about carbineer is status effects, and i thought in a group this is one useful thing I contribute, but i was wrong melee has a far easier time getting status to stick, and knockdown and other posture moves are more successful.
I know this post is about jeedai, but just wanted to state melee also has the upper-hand on carbineers.
A few months ago, i tried attacking a kimo as carbineer solo for kicks, got my has handed to me, in no time flat (and should of).
Today as a swordsman/doc, travel in lok, ran into a kimo layer, swang at it a few times. 2 giant kimo popped, aggroed me, 3 enraged kimo in distance aggro aswell. total of 5 kimo's on me. Not once did i have to heal, and no point where 5 kimo's beating on me served any threat to me (never dropped below 90% hams). It made me laugh, that now with less than half my skillpoints in combat proffession, i am 100times more effective in combat, than when all my points where in combat skills master bh/carbine. can't wait till combat rebalance, until then encourage carbineers to temporary become swordsman or rifleman. The difference is insane, maybe when the realize 1/2 the server has become either swordsman or rifleman, maybe carbineer will be fixed.
OnlyMaestro
Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:09 pm
#16
Rorenikibi wrote:
Heh, the only state I've ever stuck on a DJM is Intimidate from NOVICE BRAWLER. Forget about anything I could have stuck with my Carbines.
People forget to realize this one...
A Novice Brawler state (best state in game aside from KD possibly, reducing damage output) is the quickest state to land.
Eldudorino
Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:44 pm
#17
Its sad. My guild doesn't even ask for me to lay states on high end PvE hunts, they have the brawlers/Jedi do it. Pisses me off to no end that even in PvE we are so limited.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:33 am
#18
Hey... I thought we were supposed to be the best at states. Maybe Jedi are the new Crowd Control profession. Does that mean I can trade in my specials for some that actually do something that no one else does better?
Badger them real bad for us Nova.
Message Edited by Mild-Breeze-Trooper on 08-19-2004 09:33 PM
Bermag
Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:04 am
#19
Was some time since I posted here last time. Currently not Carbineer (was for 9 months though might go back some day) and doing Pikeman (much like Carbineer in many ways).
I am most certain that the game mechanics for sticking a state work like this. Also why I think intimidate/warcry work
* State effect is indepedant of accuracy (I guess that those accuracy modded carbines I made you Nova proved that) . Acurracy only affect if you miss or not.
* If you get a succesful hit a random roll 0-100 is rolled. If the "dice" is over the defenders state defense the state will stick. I guess there is also a roll to dtermine if and which state effect should be applied (but that does not matter for this discussion).
* High-end creatures/NPC probably have a state defense over 100. I have alsoe read that people with over 100 state defense never get hit in pvp with a state effect so I think that is the number. So the state will never stick since you can never get above the state defense.
* Why do intimidate/warcry work? Probably becuase those 2 are the only state effect which have a own skill +Intimidate/warcry and there are also SEA/Bio clotheswith those state effects. At master brwler you have +20 warcry/intimidate, add +25 and you can get up to +45. I guess that the modifier is added to the dice roll which let you go over the state defense = it sticks
Example:
1) You hit a target with a stun effect special. Computer rolls +60, stun defense is 45 so the stun sticks Stun roll > stun defense
2) Stun effect speical with a creature with 110 stun defense. Computer rolls 90, stun does not stick (and never can) 90 < 110
3) You have +45 intimidate and use intimidate on that creature with 110 intimidate defense. Computer rolls 90, +45 intimidate is added to the roll 90+45 > 110 intimidate sticks
This is pure specualation but it seems logical it work something like this.
So what can devs do to help us out?
a) lower state defenses (probably the hardest thing to do)
b) add a state modifier just like intimidate. Either a skill modifier or that higher level specials have a state modifier
c) A special that lower state defenses. Maybe that specuial we want for MC?
Fixing state effects is IMO the most important issue for both Carbineer and Pikeman IMO. State effects is the advantages of both professions which is of no use in high-level content. Maybe you should try to talk to Pikeman correspondant so you both bring this up in your discussions with devs?
Maybe it is also possible to get somethign like this before combat revamp?
Nadiel26
Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:59 am
#20
hunted and lvled with many jedi and they have no problem what-so-ever getting all their states to stick. be it the ackley, lord nayx, elders, NS queen, dark jedi masters, they can apply everything. makes me wonder if KD food would even help against themin PvP. they need to tweak chargeshot 2 making it have a higher change to apply a KD since the animation lowers our acc we should get compensated
BoveApako
Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:18 am
#21
novamarine wrote:
I happened to be in the Mining Outpost on Dantooine when one of those Dark Jedi Masters showed up. Everyone was banging on him including a player with theDark Jedi Enforcer title up. I was just kind of watching the battle when I noticed the NPC was burning, bleed...yea okay quiet normal...dizzied! stunned! blinded! and then KDed! I have never in a year seen anybody stick anything beside burns and bleeds on high level NPCs. I tell you that really got my blood boiling...
It answered the age old question, why are our states not sticking? Are mobs immune or are they highly resistant. Clearly they are just highly resistant but so resistant they are essentually immune.
Now we know and now we can argue for change. We need the ability to stick our states on the high end content.
Not to mention the glaringslap in the face to continuity, I agree we need to be able to stick states very well, but jedi can do everything better than regular people, which is a horrible thing to do to any game imo, healing for example, they can do that better than any doctor or combat medic. But I do agree we should have a CHANCE to land a state on high-end mobs.
weaponmaster88
Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:56 pm
#22
now now ppl try to stay calm, the jedi have only had 2 publish's to themselves and are multiple times as strong as carbineers AS IS EVERY OTHER FRICKEN MELEE PROFESSION..... now not only are they stronger have more defences more dmg output and rule everything.... they also can do our job better then us..... i say we hunt down every melee profession and obliterate them from existance until they get nerfed to heck
/death to melee professions
/sign for higher state % chance
Ronid
Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:26 pm
#23
I absolutely agree. The day after the Jedi Revamp I went to the Nightspider Cult Cave with a group and one of the npc's resisted the stunning effect of wild shot 1 at least 30x in a row. It was at this time that a Jedi ran in and applied a stun in one hit. Gimme a break.
Volcanus
Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:47 am
#24
i guess force power has to have some use lol, force lightning sucks vs composite and force choke aint that hot,
thelar
Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:28 am
#25
Mild-Breeze-Trooper wrote:
Hey... I thought we were supposed to be the best at states. Maybe Jedi are the new Crowd Control profession. Does that mean I can trade in my specials for some that actually do something that no one else does better?
Badger them real bad for us Nova.
Message Edited by Mild-Breeze-Trooper on 08-19-2004 09:33 PM
I happen to be both a jedi and a carbineer. On my jedi I am only really concerned with pvp, I could give 2 **edit**s about pve so I cant really comment. However, when it comes to pvp, we are not crowd control at all. Not even close. We do have an area KD that works really well, however, our ability to inflict area states to a wide area is very limited and our accuracy is limited to +100 at master sabers.
I cannnot get dizzy to land on a mele stacker no matter how hard I try with my jedi, but I have had some better luck with the carbine in that regard.
The reason why jedi are effective in pvp is because we are very hated. That means everyone wants to kill us and every tom **edit** and harry will target and attack us, and they will even stupidly chase us when we can clearly outrun them, so they end up seperating themselves from their group making them an easy kill. Or, they just all jump the jedi and the rest of the non jedi can safely attack those attacking the jedi.
Best way to deal with a jedi is to stay together, and for the most part ignore them.
But carbines has much better accuracy then Jedi do and carbine shots land much more then jedi specials on a mele stacker.
JeZuS1
Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:41 am
#26
only thing i can think of is maybe its linked somehow to the damage type since everything ingame is vulnerable to lightsabre dmg. who knows
novamarine wrote:
I happened to be in the Mining Outpost on Dantooine when one of those Dark Jedi Masters showed up. Everyone was banging on him including a player with theDark Jedi Enforcer title up. I was just kind of watching the battle when I noticed the NPC was burning, bleed...yea okay quiet normal...dizzied! stunned! blinded! and then KDed! I have never in a year seen anybody stick anything beside burns and bleeds on high level NPCs. I tell you that really got my blood boiling...
It answered the age old question, why are our states not sticking? Are mobs immune or are they highly resistant. Clearly they are just highly resistant but so resistant they are essentually immune.
Now we know and now we can argue for change. We need the ability to stick our states on the high end content.