Carbineer Archive
Thread: Can a Carbineer beat a Rifleman/CM?
RyushiYoshi wrote:Now why the **edit** was this one-starred? dumbasses. 5 for you!
Because it states the truth that CM's are over powered and the person that 1 starred it most likely is a CM trying to hide this.
TAfirehawk wrote:
YES
The fourth solo Imp kill I made tonight was a buffed Rifleman/CM. Thankfully he only hit me with two poisons and FullAutoSingle2 and ScatterShot2 did him in before the 656 mind poison per tick drained me.
I had quite a setup with full 9 stat buffs, uber Stun Comp Armor, max SEA's for Carbineer, Stun PSG, Krayt DXR6, Brandy X2, Canape, DOT reduction food, Synthsteak. So I am not the average Carbineer, but it can be a viable PvP profession.....it just takes more work than healing an AFK Tumbler
Being all full of myself (bad idea for a solo PvP Carbineer)I decided to take on a Bladesmaster and Master Pikeman together in full Comp and buffed.....OUCH!!!! They were BOTH CM's.....Needless to say I didn't win, but kited them for over 500m before going down (used Muon on top of setup above). I scrolled back through my log and found that TWO guys hit me with 17 poisons.....and the Devs say they don't want to nerf CM's give me a FREAKIN' break.....
/waveshand @ jfang You want to promote the nerf of CM's.....
BTW, I am a Master Carbineer with 4440 Fencer and 0043 Pistoleer.
TAfirehawk wrote:
YES
The fourth solo Imp kill I made tonight was a buffed Rifleman/CM. Thankfully he only hit me with two poisons and FullAutoSingle2 and ScatterShot2 did him in before the 656 mind poison per tick drained me.
I had quite a setup with full 9 stat buffs, uber Stun Comp Armor, max SEA's for Carbineer, Stun PSG, Krayt DXR6, Brandy X2, Canape, DOT reduction food, Synthsteak. So I am not the average Carbineer, but it can be a viable PvP profession.....it just takes more work than healing an AFK Tumbler
Being all full of myself (bad idea for a solo PvP Carbineer)I decided to take on a Bladesmaster and Master Pikeman together in full Comp and buffed.....OUCH!!!! They were BOTH CM's.....Needless to say I didn't win, but kited them for over 500m before going down (used Muon on top of setup above). I scrolled back through my log and found that TWO guys hit me with 17 poisons.....and the Devs say they don't want to nerf CM's give me a FREAKIN' break.....
/waveshand @ jfang You want to promote the nerf of CM's.....
BTW, I am a Master Carbineer with 4440 Fencer and 0043 Pistoleer.
Yes, have buffs, brandy, canape and a Stun Helmet.
You really don't need any other armor, its not like their tactics are all that sophisticated. Mind Poison, Mind Disease, HeadShot3, Snipershot. If you're stats are tight, you can get away with just the helmet.
FullAutoSingle2 is your best bet as its not only applying the states that could lead to a Dizzy/KD combo (which these guys are VERY vulnerable to), but you're also scattering damage and every second or third hit is tapping their Mind.
As annoying as it is, you're carbine's optimum range is probably right within their Jawa Rifle's optimum range. You're hands down best bet is to keep them running. Rifles are terrible at mobile accuracy (only +10 Accuracy while Moving at Master Rifleman) so the more they have to chase you, the less chance they have for a quick finish.
My recommendation is to not only have Blue Milk, but Aitha. Aitha is an Artisan Mind Healing drink that only does about +235 when BE'd, but properly experimented is only about 11% filling, so you can slip it into stomachs that Blue Milk might be too much for. You're battling in the margins, so its going to be tight. You're eeking out shots pulled from Mind pools that are rapidly being drained, so use your shots wisely. If you're one on one, ScatterShot2 or FullAutoSingle2, alternate as needed. If his Mind bar is small, ScatterShot or BurstShot1 athim, go for the big numbers on damage and try for the quick take down. If his Mind bar is large, FullAutoSingle him, go for the Dizzy/KD and get the hell out of there.Sometimes the only way to beat a Rifleman/CM is not so muich sending him to the Cloner, its making sure he doesn't send you there.
If you're battling a group, use BurstShot2 or FullAutoArea2 and STAY MOVING. When you see Dizzies start to land, throw back a ChargeShot2 and drop who you can. Target the guy with the biggest Mind bar and let the area cone damage the others. A peculiarity of cone shots are that the guys not directly targeted will have more damage done, use this to your advantage.
At the end of the day, its a crap shoot, so roll the dice as loaded as you can get them. Remember that there's no one shot in the Carbineer arsenal that works in all cases, so be ready to use any of them on short notice as the dynamics of the fight change.
jfang wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
YES
The fourth solo Imp kill I made tonight was a buffed Rifleman/CM. Thankfully he only hit me with two poisons and FullAutoSingle2 and ScatterShot2 did him in before the 656 mind poison per tick drained me.
I had quite a setup with full 9 stat buffs, uber Stun Comp Armor, max SEA's for Carbineer, Stun PSG, Krayt DXR6, Brandy X2, Canape, DOT reduction food, Synthsteak. So I am not the average Carbineer, but it can be a viable PvP profession.....it just takes more work than healing an AFK Tumbler
Being all full of myself (bad idea for a solo PvP Carbineer)I decided to take on a Bladesmaster and Master Pikeman together in full Comp and buffed.....OUCH!!!! They were BOTH CM's.....Needless to say I didn't win, but kited them for over 500m before going down (used Muon on top of setup above). I scrolled back through my log and found that TWO guys hit me with 17 poisons.....and the Devs say they don't want to nerf CM's give me a FREAKIN' break.....
/waveshand @ jfang You want to promote the nerf of CM's.....
BTW, I am a Master Carbineer with 4440 Fencer and 0043 Pistoleer.
/emote wonders if a report to the moderators for trolling is in order... Oh well...
/wave TAfirehawk; Hello, TAfirehawk, is today another one of those "greet everybody" days?
I find your story suspect for several reasons (not all of them pro-CMs), and contains some mis-information (accidental, I'm sure):
1) If you had 2 mind poisons stacked on you, you should have received an equivalent to about 1100 tick speed (a 650 and a 450 tick). So either you were undercounting your mind damage, or the 2 poisons were the same type, meaning the CM wasn't exactly intelligent in what he or she did.
I did sneak up on him and surprise him as he stood in one spot for over 5 min next to the Imp Recruiter in Theed, so who knows but I had him down pretty quick.
2) 17 poisons in three stats is extremely unlikely. I expect that the number was more like 5 or 6. Explanation listed below at (*).
A Master Swordsman and Master Pikeman that probably had DOT weapons so that was some of it I am sure.
Regardless though, I will point out that even withtwo CMs spamming various poisons, you managed to kite them for 500m. If you had taken on two riflemen/fencers, for example, would you have faired much better?
I have no doubt that anybody but a CM would not pose problems unless they have a really uber DOT weapon.
And to clarify, as I understand it, the devs have stated they are happy with the behavior of poisons and diseases. They did not state they were happy with the state of mind damage, armor (so a pistoleer does "no damage" in PvP), buffs, or HAM costs. I expect that post-combat revamp, even if CMs do not change, everything around them will change such that the role of poisons in combat is much more muted than it is now. If nothing else, a mind poison mitigations spice is coming out which will help change the timing of combat, and address some of the concerns you raised in this post.
I agree with this completely, but you can not say that the current State of CM's in PvP doesn't need balance. They are hands down the #1 reason PvP is on hold for so many of us.
Then again, I'm not sure why you posted this. You have stated in the past about the various interplays between poisons, armor, buffs, HAM costs, cloning, and combat timing. I thought you understood the various interplays and repercussions of each. I find your whole story somewhat suspect in this light, as your opinions in the past tend to be more moderate (in regards to CM poisons) thanyour most recentpost was... Well, who am I to judge?
You obviously miss the entire purpose of this post....I am trying to show that (in all but one case) a Carbineer CAN be made into a VERY strong if not uber PvP character. And yes I will take every chance I get to complain about a CM in PvP that is so out of balance it is on the verge of an EXPLOIT, IMO.
9,701 more to go...
Not ready to give up yet I see
* The theoretical maximum is 18 CM poisons stacking. I've never heard of anybody using health or action poisons of strength A or B. A more pragmatic maximum would be 10, and even that is somewhat silly (nobody uses poison A's or area B's in PvP, not worth the "I'm rooted throwing a poison" time). A reasonable maximum is more like7 (all mind C's, individual mind B's, and all health and action C's).
I would guess what happened is that the two people were not coordinating, so double stacked mind individual and area mind C's, probably a disease C (although you explicitly mentioned poisons), then threw some health and action C's as well. Because of how poison stacking works, these do not actually add up in damage, so the master pikeman was likely wasting his or her time. I would guess that likely had about 8 or less poisons ticking, and the remainder were wasted efforts from failures to communicate and re-applying a "worthless" poison, just in case you were a doctor.
jfang wrote:
I was fine (albeit shaking my head), up until the:
"/waveshand @ jfang You want to promote the nerf of CM's....."
Any time I am addressed directly, I will take that as an invitation to reply (although I don't expect to retort against the counter replies in this thread for exactly the reasons you said).
Like I said, I think TAfirehawk is trying to start a flame war to boost his post count...
9,695 more to go...
Yes I wanted you to specifically reply 
We have good discussions....even though this is beating an almost dead horse
I felt it necessary to reply to your reply because you misunderstood some of the details.....and I love to /stirpot
BTW, only 8,178 to go...without using any "modifiers"....you might as well give ME the FIREHAWK
TAfirehawk wrote:
Yes I wanted you to specifically reply
We have good discussions....even though this is beating an almost dead horse
BTW, only 8,178 to go...without using any "modifiers"....you might as well give ME the FIREHAWK
"What is to become of William Tell, now an arrow shooting machine?" (good luck identifying that reference... )
TAfirehawk wrote:
The CM dead horse hasn't been beaten THAT many times here.....
I was going to post a Witty Retort (TM), but then thought it might be better to give real numbers. So I searched for the word "nerf" in some forums and found some interesting results:
Combat Medic: 3813
Carbineer: 1707
Teras Kasi: 5646
Riflemen: 5232
I was going to continue, but the search engines overloaded. If you scale the combat medic posts to the 75% damage reduction (when the cries really started), it's on par with TK and Riflemen. Now I know that this is not a fair judgment for many reasons (most nerf cries do not directly say "nerf", does not take into account post quoting, locked threads, GCW complaints, etc). But still interesting... Make of that what you will.
Oh, and note, I agree that when this many people are crying nerf, it bears looking into and not writing it off as people whining. However, I also think that 3813 people can be wrong as well (*cough* scattershot *cough*). Make of that what you will as well...
9,686 more to go. And I find that people keep asking me to post more CM related things that Carbineer related things...