Carbineer Archive
Thread: Carbineer- Underated in Pvp?
Nadiel26 wrote:
with master carbineer and BH carbines 4 the only defense stacking that affects me is KD. KD and saberblock are the only things in game that make me completely useless. i dont go into battle thinking i'm the damage dealer. i take out who i can and target people that are a bigger threat to my group unless i feel like using full auto area and charge 2 to see who didn't come ready
If you have problems landing a kd after a dizzy, switch to a posture change.
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 11-18-2004 09:27 PM
Nadiel26 wrote:
the problem i see with action dots is because random bar specials hit health mostly and only 2 professions have special that specifically hit action while all professions have genaric HAM attacks so health dots are better since i'm not a glory hog like zan trying to kill everyone myself
Very true - it's why I prefer Health or Mind DoTs myself.
That said, a PvP buddy of mine has an Exceptional Action poison knife and pistol that both stack for 1600 in total.. another PvP buddy of mine can stack 500 tick, and I myself use a 250 strength Action poison Carb.
Needless to say, we like to "show off" my getting Action incaps..hehe. It's great because I can actually use LegShot3 to my advantage in these cases, and my dizzy/KDs and our warcries pretty much ensures that our nasty stuff will tick, even if you're an uber doctor.
Yup.. I like it when we PvP as a group. 
AdmiralSpy wrote:
Raw defense stackers also suffer from the same damage problems we do. In fact, any PvPer is able to make themselves IMPOSSIBLE to kill unless your opponent uses DoTs.. it's as simple as 85% effectiveness armor, a PSG, synthsteak and buffs. Add a lot of defenses to that, and nothing will take you out. Nothing.
It doesn't matter if you're a Carbineer, a Pistoleer, or even an Image Designer. When it comes to damage, all professions can effectively be nullified, it just so happens that ours doesn't take much effort.
PvP is unfortunately a game of DoTs and defenses, not damage. If you can cover the defenses part, you're guaranteed to succeed, whether you're a Carbineer or not. Our profession is merely one of taste and convenience.. we prefer states and posture changes over raw DPS, both of which are often more effective.
hate to break it to you, but there are profs that can easily bypass armor/buffs/mitigation/defenses without using dots. Swordsman and Rifleman are probably the best at that.
Take this for example... I can beat a TKM/Mbrawler/def stacker with maxed KD/Posture down def who also has a 90% blast helm, as a swordsman. Without using dots. Rifleman does even better vs. pure melee stackers, because they have NO MELEE MITIGATION. I also do insanely good against pure ranged templates, as no mitigation can increase my average DPS (before armor) to ~1.5k.
Your statement that all professions can be nullified is absurd at best. I admit that MOST professions can be effectively nullified (TKA, fencer, pikeman vs melee, pistoleer vs ranged), but when you can do over 1k damage per hit you can still kill someone. Carbineer can do that to pure melee stackers. In fact, even with mit3 against ranged, thats still 400+ damage a hit. That's a lot. I've seen it done. I've been hit for close to 2k by a carbineer, because I have no mitigation. Now think of 2k damage once per second, with an AP2 weapon, so you're doing 200 damage per hit after armor. While it (and many other professions) really do need to be more effective, that doesn't mean you're absolutely horrible at pvp.
Ok, that was my rant, I'll go back to being a swordsman for a while, and watch the 187 damage krayt tissues up for auction on intrepid so i can decide whether or not to go back carbineer.
AriasImmortal wrote:
hate to break it to you, but there are profs that can easily bypass armor/buffs/mitigation/defenses without using dots. Swordsman and Rifleman are probably the best at that.
Your statement that all professions can be nullified is absurd at best. I admit that MOST professions can be effectively nullified (TKA, fencer, pikeman vs melee, pistoleer vs ranged), but when you can do over 1k damage per hit you can still kill someone. Carbineer can do that to pure melee stackers. In fact, even with mit3 against ranged, thats still 400+ damage a hit. That's a lot. I've seen it done. I've been hit for close to 2k by a carbineer, because I have no mitigation. Now think of 2k damage once per second, with an AP2 weapon, so you're doing 200 damage per hit after armor. While it (and many other professions) really do need to be more effective, that doesn't mean you're absolutely horrible at pvp.
Keep in mind that I clearly stated that you'd need mitigation - your claims of 2k damage and above are based on opponents not having it.
I'm simply going by what I experience and see everyday. I PvP daily, against Jedi, ranged and melee targets,against the best equipment, exceptional, legendary, you name it.
Swordsmen have very low defenses. While not possible with purely Master Carbineer, intimidating ensures they don't counter-attack nearly as much, and they are very vulnerable to posture changes, states and knockdowns. A Carbineer that can keep his distance will have a ball of a time if their shots land. Swordsmen can of course defense-stack, and if they have Pistol Techniques 4, their Ranged Mitigation 2 also adds a bit of difficulty into the mix.
Nevertheless, if you have Melee mitigation, you have nothing to worry about. I'm not preaching that Master Carbineer alone can nullify the damage of ALL PvP templates out there.. that'd mean we're overpowered, and as we all know, that's false, heh. If you look up a bit, I state that the only 100% viable PvP template for Carbineers is a defense-stacked one with Fencer/Pistoleer/TK defenses.
That AP2 2000 damage hit will reach about 800 with mitigation, gain a 25% and another 25% boost due to the PSG.. assume 30% is mitigated out at a minimum due to it.. thats 875. Now give it a 25% boost against AP1 armor and an 85% reduction, it comes down to 164 points of damage. With 45% synthsteak, its down to 90 points to your HAM bar.
Considering that it's a mind hit, if you have dancer buffs, two brandies and atleast one canape (maybe two if you want to fill your food bar, but I usually keep space for another steak..), you could probably regen about 20 points a second, effectively bringing their damage down to 70 or so direct mind pool drains. That's not a lot.
Now consider that the average PvPer isn't even hitting you for 2000 points of damage, but perhaps 1000 or even less (remember that I factored in mitigation here), and overall, they're not doing much. Intimidated, they'd be doing half that, stunned, even less. On an approximate scale, you're looking at about 30-40 direct points of mind pool drain.. and when you've got DoTs that tick for 300, poisons that tick for 400-1000, the kind of damage you're talking about is negligible I'm afraid.
Again, it requires both forms of mitigation, 85% effectiveness sliced armor, atleast 30% base PSGs (45% + is more on par), 2200+ buffs, synthsteak and the proper mind foods.
It's very doable, though perhaps costly.
Message Edited by AdmiralSpy on 11-19-2004 10:20 AM