Carbineer Archive

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

---

TerasXiris wrote:
Scatter shot 2 is basicly the ranged version of unarmed combo 2(TKA) and scatter hit 2(fencer)
what it does is basicly fire 3 shots at once and hit 1 2 or 3 random pools, it is excellent vs people with high dodge and counter attack
why?
as i said scattershot fires 3 shots, if someone dodges of counter attacks it, only 1 shot gets evaded but the other 2 go thru
i would say scattershot is worth it big time

---

BULL**edit**

Please go read my OFFICIAL testing of ScatterShot2 and STOP the freakin' BS rumors.......

---

# ScatterShot2 gets resisted on ALL THREE hits by Armor and PSG............
straight from your post
do i need to say more?

---

TerasXiris wrote:

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

---

TerasXiris wrote:
Scatter shot 2 is basicly the ranged version of unarmed combo 2(TKA) and scatter hit 2(fencer)
what it does is basicly fire 3 shots at once and hit 1 2 or 3 random pools, it is excellent vs people with high dodge and counter attack
why?
as i said scattershot fires 3 shots, if someone dodges of counter attacks it, only 1 shot gets evaded but the other 2 go thru
i would say scattershot is worth it big time

---

BULL**edit**

Please go read my OFFICIAL testing of ScatterShot2 and STOP the freakin' BS rumors.......

---

# ScatterShot2 gets resisted on ALL THREE hits by Armor and PSG............
straight from your post
do i need to say more?

---

And I hope you read the info on Counterattack in my testing as well......because you are clearly making false statements in the original post. But I am glad you have "seen the light" now.....

---

piezo wrote:

Or should i grab the 4th accuracy box instead?

(right now thinking of getting 3304)

Thanks!

---

---

jfang wrote:

---

piezo wrote:

Or should i grab the 4th accuracy box instead?

(right now thinking of getting 3304)

Thanks!

---

Actually, now that I look at it, nobody answered piezo's original question, and I am now curious to. Is scatter shot 2 worth it *as compared to scatter shot 1* (which piezo would have at the alternative set up being considered, 2404).

Of course it's "obvious" that scatter shot 2 is better than scatter shot 1 (meaning higher dps, as presumably lack of states sticking and chance to hit mind pool are the same), but it is also equally "obvious" that leg shot 3 is better than leg shot 2...

So, the real question is "is the difference between scatter shot 2 and 1 more than the 25 accuracy received at 0400"? My question is "is scatter shot 2 significantly better than scatter shot 1?"

---

I don't know what the damage modifier is for ScatterShot1, but I do know that ScatterShot2 is better in my mind.

Though the speed mods are 2.0 for SS1 and 2.5 for SS2, SS1 only hits with 2 "sub-hits" opposed to 3 "sub-hits" for SS2 (by sub-hits, I mean that while SS2 can attack all 3 pools, SS1 can only attack 2 at a time). So, if you are using it in hopes that it hits mind, SS1 has a significantly less chance to hit mind than SS2.

Knowing this, if I had to assume (which I don't, so I am not lol) I would assume that SS1 only has 2/3 the damage of SS2. With that assumption, the damage modifier to speed modifierratios give SS2 a20% better DPS modifier. (1 / 2.5) / (2/3 / 2.0) = 1.2

Like I said, those are just assumptions,but they do fall in line withthe "seat of the pants" testing that I have done.

---

TerasXiris wrote:

---

EisMan_Buckeye wrote:

Like TA said, Scatter Shot, Scatter Hit, Unarmed Combo (I've used them all) are NOT 3 shots. They are a SINGLE shot that distributes it's damage 3 ways. Why are so many people so delusional?

---

it fires 3 ways yes, it either hits 1 2 or 3 pools
therefor in theory your actually shooting 3 bursts into 1 shot, but it is random on wich pool('s) it is devided

---

I know that, but the point is that when the defensive skills and armor hits are calculated, they work against one hit for X amount of damage. They then reduce that damge down to the modified damage value, and that value is distributed 3 ways. It is not broken down to 3 hits first, and then each hit recieves seperate reductions based on whether or not defenses stop each one of the 3.

---

EisMan_Buckeye wrote:

---

TerasXiris wrote:

---

EisMan_Buckeye wrote:

Like TA said, Scatter Shot, Scatter Hit, Unarmed Combo (I've used them all) are NOT 3 shots. They are a SINGLE shot that distributes it's damage 3 ways. Why are so many people so delusional?

---

it fires 3 ways yes, it either hits 1 2 or 3 pools
therefor in theory your actually shooting 3 bursts into 1 shot, but it is random on wich pool('s) it is devided

---

I know that, but the point is that when the defensive skills and armor hits are calculated, they work against one hit for X amount of damage. They then reduce that damge down to the modified damage value, and that value is distributed 3 ways. It is not broken down to 3 hits first, and then each hit recieves seperate reductions based on whether or not defenses stop each one of the 3.

---

BINGO

And I have a crapload of in-game data from testing to prove that.....

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

---

EisMan_Buckeye wrote:

---

TerasXiris wrote:

I know that, but the point is that when the defensive skills and armor hits are calculated, they work against one hit for X amount of damage. They then reduce that damge down to the modified damage value, and that value is distributed 3 ways. It is not broken down to 3 hits first, and then each hit recieves seperate reductions based on whether or not defenses stop each one of the 3.

---

BINGO

And I have a crapload of in-game data from testing to prove that.....

---

(I wonder if I should bring up that 4 hit argument again... Nah...)

Can you confirm that? For example, if I am wearing only a chest plate and am scatter shot, does this mean I will either resist no damage, or resist the whole hit based on the armor rating of my chest plate? That it will not be the case where my logs show me resisting oneblock and not the other two. In looking at the logs, it looked like the resistances were calculated after the split (as it listed the chest plate, the helmet, and the leggings resistances as seperate line items).

Put another way, if I have ahelmet with 50% resistance, and fighting against an AP1 elite carbine, is it possible to receive 50 health damage, 50 action damage, and 25 mind damage?

Hmm... oh, you were talking about damage mitigation 3. Well, my question still stands though.

---

jfang wrote:

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

---

EisMan_Buckeye wrote:

---

TerasXiris wrote:

I know that, but the point is that when the defensive skills and armor hits are calculated, they work against one hit for X amount of damage. They then reduce that damge down to the modified damage value, and that value is distributed 3 ways. It is not broken down to 3 hits first, and then each hit recieves seperate reductions based on whether or not defenses stop each one of the 3.

---

BINGO

And I have a crapload of in-game data from testing to prove that.....

---

(I wonder if I should bring up that 4 hit argument again... Nah...)

Can you confirm that? For example, if I am wearing only a chest plate and am scatter shot, does this mean I will either resist no damage, or resist the whole hit based on the armor rating of my chest plate? That it will not be the case where my logs show me resisting oneblock and not the other two. In looking at the logs, it looked like the resistances were calculated after the split (as it listed the chest plate, the helmet, and the leggings resistances as seperate line items).

Put another way, if I have ahelmet with 50% resistance, and fighting against an AP1 elite carbine, is it possible to receive 50 health damage, 50 action damage, and 25 mind damage?

Hmm... oh, you were talking about damage mitigation 3. Well, my question still stands though.

---

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

Well a borked Combat Log doesn't help sort any of this out. But it would appear that Armor Resists DO affect each "sub-hit" differently.

And you are not still stuck on that ridiculous 4 hit thing are you? goodness.....

---

---

jfang wrote:

---

TAfirehawk wrote:

Well a borked Combat Log doesn't help sort any of this out. But it would appear that Armor Resists DO affect each "sub-hit" differently.

And you are not still stuck on that ridiculous 4 hit thing are you? goodness.....

---

Yes, I am. (At least I'm not saying 7 hits... ) As mentioned before by both of usthough, there is no real way for us to distinguish between the two interpretations of the information. And as there is no real difference between the two, it doesn't really matter, as we end up with the same results.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, at least until we get more things to experiment with.

---

LOL, I did report my Combat Log with 7 hits.....top that!!!!!

But if the floating number and the number stopped by the armor in those 7 hits is all added up.....well the damage modifier was like 10X or 12X which we KNOW that is NOT the case

And your 4 hit scenario is easily disproven with another Special or even the Standard Attack

---

jfang wrote:

I would disagree with the damage multiplier you came up with, and my response would be "no, a standard attack supports my point of view because..."

But we talked about this in the scatter shot 2 thread already. Do you really want to start all over again?

---

Well the resolution is easy, which we never got to in the ScatterShot2 thread.....simple math on the Standard Attack makes it quite easy. So I will do that this weekend for sure.

The mere idea that the Standard Attack or any other Special hits for more than one attack per round just doesn't make sense, but I will use math to prove the point beyond a shadow of a doubt......I was just being lazy before and was hoping for somebody else to do the testing and calculating....

BTW, what is wrong with the Damage Modifier on ScaterShot2?