Carbineer Archive
Thread: Which gun sholud i put my krayt tissue in ?
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DXshigure
Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:08 pm
#1
I have six tissue 64 dmg and -.55 speed.(this gun would be for pvp use) Should I put it in a laser carbine for the medium armor piercing since most armor has 70% resist to everything. Or should I put it in the elite carbine. I dont know why everyone says the elite is better for pvp it has light armor piercing and not as good damage.
Or should i wait for the EE3 to have splash damage ( if that will ever happen)
Or should i wait for the EE3 to have splash damage ( if that will ever happen)
TrassNimode
Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:29 pm
#2
The Elite, definatly the Elite. Make it with the Imperial Form Fitting Stocks and that's a 2.4 speed, great damage PvP gun. Get a damage slice over 30% with a +33min/+16speed PU and that will kick ass.
The Elite is better because of Damage Mitigation for PvP. Mitigation reduced the Range of the weapons damage. Since the range of damag on the Laser is so high, it gets ruined in PvP. You end up with huge max damage, like 600+, but less then 100 min damage, even after all of the slices and power-ups. With the Elite, they move up more evenly, you hit for higher, and you hit more evenly, even AFTER AP.
In PvE, a lot of NPCs have Medium armor, so the Laser is definatly the choice, but for PvP everything has Light AP.
The Elite is better because of Damage Mitigation for PvP. Mitigation reduced the Range of the weapons damage. Since the range of damag on the Laser is so high, it gets ruined in PvP. You end up with huge max damage, like 600+, but less then 100 min damage, even after all of the slices and power-ups. With the Elite, they move up more evenly, you hit for higher, and you hit more evenly, even AFTER AP.
In PvE, a lot of NPCs have Medium armor, so the Laser is definatly the choice, but for PvP everything has Light AP.
israiley
Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:11 pm
#3
put it in a dxr6, most dxr6's ive seen have even better min dmg than elites. my dxr6 is 223-269 4.0, stocked,dmg slice, and pu. thats what i call a tight dmg range. but i guess it really all depends on resources and crafters.
JangusFett
Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:25 pm
#4
TrassNimode wrote:
The Elite, definatly the Elite. Make it with the Imperial Form Fitting Stocks and that's a 2.4 speed, great damage PvP gun. Get a damage slice over 30% with a +33min/+16speed PU and that will kick ass.
The Elite is better because of Damage Mitigation for PvP. Mitigation reduced the Range of the weapons damage. Since the range of damag on the Laser is so high, it gets ruined in PvP. You end up with huge max damage, like 600+, but less then 100 min damage, even after all of the slices and power-ups. With the Elite, they move up more evenly, you hit for higher, and you hit more evenly, even AFTER AP.
In PvE, a lot of NPCs have Medium armor, so the Laser is definatly the choice, but for PvP everything has Light AP.
I still say it all depends on the Laser. For instance if I can get a 33% dmg slice on the lasers I get made for me I can have a 150-600 laser carbine when it has a powerup on it. If that was krayted it could be like 150-700. Ok, so that is a huge range, but .4 of that range is pretty big too. Thats 370 after dmg mit 3. Then armor piercing, which makes it 460. Even if you got say a 250-600 elite with powerups krayted and everything that is a 350 range X .4 which is140+250 dmg after dmg mit, or 390, no more armor piercing advantages on it. But again it all depends on what kind of quality the different carbs are on your server.Then again you still havea range then of 150-460 for the laser, and 250-390 for theelite. Of course theelite is guaranteed a more constant damage, but when you are fighting fast and too the death I find those several powerful shotsfrom the laserhelp, while the elite remainsconstant and too slow to kill myoponent.I use my elite for its accuracy and thats about it. I barely get minimal damage on my laser unless I am intimidated. I will defend to the grave too that the PvP on Bloodfin is a lot more involved than on any other server, so through my experience I have found that the use of a laser carbine gets me more kills.
Message Edited by JangusFett on 03-04-2004 12:28 AM
TrassNimode
Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:08 pm
#5
Alright, Jangus, I'll run through this one last time for... just for you 
It does NOT matter what laser. If you make an Elite with the same thing you make the lasers with, the Elite ALWAYS comes out better.
Laser Carbine: 42-276----After Mit 3: 42-135----After AP: 52-168-----56 less min, for 30 more max
Elite Carbine: 108-187----After Mit 3: 108-138---After AP: 108-138
(+38/+38stock)
Laser Carbine: 80-314----After Mit 3: 80-173----After AP: 100-216-----56 less min, for 40 more max
Elite Carbine:146-223----After Mit 3: 156-176---After AP: 156-176
(+38/+38stock and 30%Damage Slice)
Laser Carbine: 104-408---After Mit 3: 104-225---After AP: 130-281-----60 less min, for 51 more max
Elite Carbine: 190-290-----After Mit 3: 190-230---After AP: 190-230
(+54 Krayt Tissue, +38 stock, 30% damage slice)
Laser Carbine: 104-478---After Mit 3: 104-253---After AP: 130-316-----60 less min, for 58 more max
Elite Carbine: 190-360-----After Mit 3: 190-258---After AP: 190-258
(+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33/+16 PU)
Laser Carbine: 120-635---After Mit 3: 120-326---After AP: 150-407-----70 less min, for 84 more max.
Elite Carbine: 220-479-----After Mit 3: 220-323---After AP: 220-323
(+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33min PU)
Laser Carbine: 138-478---After Mit 3: 138-274---After AP: 172-342-----80 less min, for 47 more max.
Elite Carbine: 252-360-----After Mit 3: 252-295---After AP: 252-295
The only instance in which the Laser does better then the Elite is with the 33max/16min PU. BUT compare the better of the two...
+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33/+16 PU Laser after Mit and AP: 150-407----102 less min, for 112 more max.
+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33min PU Elite after Mit and AP: 252-295
Ten more max damage, big deal... that's not what matters. Do you REALLY want to be hitting shuch lows in PvP? We havn't even encorperated the 7.5x mod of cripple, which makes a big difference, and this sequence was a bit out of order, but I think it all turns out the same anyway.
It does NOT matter what laser. If you make an Elite with the same thing you make the lasers with, the Elite ALWAYS comes out better.Laser Carbine: 42-276----After Mit 3: 42-135----After AP: 52-168-----56 less min, for 30 more max
Elite Carbine: 108-187----After Mit 3: 108-138---After AP: 108-138
(+38/+38stock)
Laser Carbine: 80-314----After Mit 3: 80-173----After AP: 100-216-----56 less min, for 40 more max
Elite Carbine:146-223----After Mit 3: 156-176---After AP: 156-176
(+38/+38stock and 30%Damage Slice)
Laser Carbine: 104-408---After Mit 3: 104-225---After AP: 130-281-----60 less min, for 51 more max
Elite Carbine: 190-290-----After Mit 3: 190-230---After AP: 190-230
(+54 Krayt Tissue, +38 stock, 30% damage slice)
Laser Carbine: 104-478---After Mit 3: 104-253---After AP: 130-316-----60 less min, for 58 more max
Elite Carbine: 190-360-----After Mit 3: 190-258---After AP: 190-258
(+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33/+16 PU)
Laser Carbine: 120-635---After Mit 3: 120-326---After AP: 150-407-----70 less min, for 84 more max.
Elite Carbine: 220-479-----After Mit 3: 220-323---After AP: 220-323
(+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33min PU)
Laser Carbine: 138-478---After Mit 3: 138-274---After AP: 172-342-----80 less min, for 47 more max.
Elite Carbine: 252-360-----After Mit 3: 252-295---After AP: 252-295
The only instance in which the Laser does better then the Elite is with the 33max/16min PU. BUT compare the better of the two...
+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33/+16 PU Laser after Mit and AP: 150-407----102 less min, for 112 more max.
+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33min PU Elite after Mit and AP: 252-295
Ten more max damage, big deal... that's not what matters. Do you REALLY want to be hitting shuch lows in PvP? We havn't even encorperated the 7.5x mod of cripple, which makes a big difference, and this sequence was a bit out of order, but I think it all turns out the same anyway.
Stocked Elite: 148-229
Krayted (+69): 148-298
30% slice: 192-387
+33min: 256-387
Cripple 7.5x: 1920-2903
RDM3: 1920-2313
AP: 1920-2313
Stocked Laser: 83-317
Krayted (+69): 83-386
30% slice: 108-502
+33/+16 PU: 125-667
Cripple 7.5x: 937-5002
RDM3: 937-2563
AP: 1171-3204
Laser: 1171-3204 749 less min, for 891 more max.
Elite: 1920-2313
Will the Laser every once in a while hit for higher then the Elite? Yes. But the Elite will consistantly hit for 2k, as where with the laser you will get some 1.2k's.
Double check me, but I don't think any of my calculations are wrong.
TAfirehawk
Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:43 am
#6
VERY nicely done TrassNimode, I hope Nova picks up on this and copies it into the FAQ.
While the Laser has the CHANCE to make a bigger hit and a smaller one, the DPS needs to be compared. I don't remember the normal speeds on these weapons or I would quickly run the numbers.
Its like being a hurdler, you want to me smooth and consistent or you will get your chin bloody 
JangusFett
Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:55 pm
#7
TrassNimode wrote:
Alright, Jangus, I'll run through this one last time for... just for you
Laser Carbine: 42-276----After Mit 3: 42-135----After AP: 52-168-----56 less min, for 30 more max
Elite Carbine: 108-187----After Mit 3: 108-138---After AP: 108-138
(+38/+38stock)
Laser Carbine: 80-314----After Mit 3: 80-173----After AP: 100-216-----56 less min, for 40 more max
Elite Carbine:146-223----After Mit 3: 156-176---After AP: 156-176
(+38/+38stock and 30%Damage Slice)
Laser Carbine: 104-408---After Mit 3: 104-225---After AP: 130-281-----60 less min, for 51 more max
Elite Carbine: 190-290-----After Mit 3: 190-230---After AP: 190-230
(+54 Krayt Tissue, +38 stock, 30% damage slice)
Laser Carbine: 104-478---After Mit 3: 104-253---After AP: 130-316-----60 less min, for 58 more max
Elite Carbine: 190-360-----After Mit 3: 190-258---After AP: 190-258
(+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33/+16 PU)
Laser Carbine: 120-635---After Mit 3: 120-326---After AP: 150-407-----70 less min, for 84 more max.
Elite Carbine: 220-479-----After Mit 3: 220-323---After AP: 220-323
(+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33min PU)
Laser Carbine: 138-478---After Mit 3: 138-274---After AP: 172-342-----80 less min, for 47 more max.
Elite Carbine: 252-360-----After Mit 3: 252-295---After AP: 252-295
The only instance in which the Laser does better then the Elite is with the 33max/16min PU. BUT compare the better of the two...
+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33/+16 PU Laser after Mit and AP: 150-407----102 less min, for 112 more max.
+54 Krayt, +38 Stock, 30% slice, +33min PU Elite after Mit and AP: 252-295
Ten more max damage, big deal... that's not what matters. Do you REALLY want to be hitting shuch lows in PvP? We havn't even encorperated the 7.5x mod of cripple, which makes a big difference, and this sequence was a bit out of order, but I think it all turns out the same anyway.
Stocked Elite: 148-229
Krayted (+69): 148-298
30% slice: 192-387
+33min: 256-387
Cripple 7.5x: 1920-2903
RDM3: 1920-2313
AP: 1920-2313
Stocked Laser: 83-317
Krayted (+69): 83-386
30% slice: 108-502
+33/+16 PU: 125-667
Cripple 7.5x: 937-5002
RDM3: 937-2563
AP: 1171-3204
Laser: 1171-3204 749 less min, for 891 more max.
Elite: 1920-2313
Will the Laser every once in a while hit for higher then the Elite? Yes. But the Elite will consistantly hit for 2k, as where with the laser you will get some 1.2k's.
Double check me, but I don't think any of my calculations are wrong.
Non of the lasers had the damage I was talking about...when I get a chance I will take a picture of my combat log with an elite and laser of the similar caliber and I will show you how much better the laser does (and how many times it hits that max)
Message Edited by JangusFett on 03-04-2004 02:56 PM
InfluenzaSWTA
Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:45 pm
#8
JangusFett wrote:
But it comes to the realm of the uber carbines, I would rather prefer an uber laser than elite.
Then you prefer an inferior weapon. It's that simple.
TrassNimode
Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:22 pm
#9
Yea, I agree with the guy above.
You are really making no sense and digging yourself a hole. You said that your Laser is way better then those Lasers I put as a demonstration... but if we were to make an Elite the same way you made your Laser, it would be better!
Then you re-posted saying you came accross wrong and just plainly preferred the Laser with no reason as to why...
Like he said, you prefer an inferior gun.
And the DH17 is not worth the lower HAM costs. Hit a +500 BoH with an Elite and you can pretty much spam all day, if you have novice medic. The DH17 has NO AP!! That's a 50% reduction!! Plus the damage isn't near as good as the Elite, the min is like 30 lower.
You are really making no sense and digging yourself a hole. You said that your Laser is way better then those Lasers I put as a demonstration... but if we were to make an Elite the same way you made your Laser, it would be better!
Then you re-posted saying you came accross wrong and just plainly preferred the Laser with no reason as to why...
Like he said, you prefer an inferior gun.
And the DH17 is not worth the lower HAM costs. Hit a +500 BoH with an Elite and you can pretty much spam all day, if you have novice medic. The DH17 has NO AP!! That's a 50% reduction!! Plus the damage isn't near as good as the Elite, the min is like 30 lower.
JangusFett
Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:18 pm
#10
TrassNimode wrote:
Yea, I agree with the guy above.
You are really making no sense and digging yourself a hole. You said that your Laser is way better then those Lasers I put as a demonstration... but if we were to make an Elite the same way you made your Laser, it would be better!
Then you re-posted saying you came accross wrong and just plainly preferred the Laser with no reason as to why...
Like he said, you prefer an inferior gun.
And the DH17 is not worth the lower HAM costs. Hit a +500 BoH with an Elite and you can pretty much spam all day, if you have novice medic. The DH17 has NO AP!! That's a 50% reduction!! Plus the damage isn't near as good as the Elite, the min is like 30 lower.
The problem is you can't make an elite as good as the laser I have. And I only use the DH17 when Im unbuffed and have to keep on fighting.
TrassNimode
Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:03 pm
#11
If you're unbuffed and have to keep fighting, use a low HAM Elite and hit BoH, I just told you that, pay attention.
And if I had the same materials that you made your Laser with, I COULD make a better Elite. You're missing the point, stop making things up.
And if I had the same materials that you made your Laser with, I COULD make a better Elite. You're missing the point, stop making things up.
What are the stats on your Laser and how was it made?
JangusFett
Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:10 pm
#12
If im unbuffed the only pvp I am going to be doing is zerging because I would have died. In zerging you dont need to worry about the effects of your carbine as much because most everyone by then is unbuffed. BoH takes up 74 filling for drink, and it is bugged to where it takes a lot longer to wear off in the stomach than supposed to, so after I die thats about it for my stomach taking drinks. As far as the whole debate about the elite and laser, first of all I have the same weaponsmith make my elite and my laser. My laser is not krayted but has a dmg slice that puts it up to 150-600 dmg with a scope and stock he makes plus powerup. The elite made with the same exact materials slicedis 250-400 with a powerup on. When I log on tomorrow I will duel someone with 200+ ranged defense and ranged mit 3 and show you the damages resulting from both carbines with burshot and cripple shot.
TrassNimode wrote:
If you're unbuffed and have to keep fighting, use a low HAM Elite and hit BoH, I just told you that, pay attention.
And if I had the same materials that you made your Laser with, I COULD make a better Elite. You're missing the point, stop making things up.
What are the stats on your Laser and how was it made?
TAfirehawk
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:09 am
#13
JangusFett wrote:
Non of the lasers had the damage I was talking about...when I get a chance I will take a picture of my combat log with an elite and laser of the similar caliber and I will show you how much better the laser does (and how many times it hits that max)
Message Edited by JangusFett on 03-04-2004 02:56 PM
BUT, both weapons were made the same, that is the point. Just because you have a Laser Carbine that is made 2-3 times better than your Elite Carbine, doesn't make ALL Lasers better in ALL situations vs. and Elite. That is the point that needs to be made to the "noobs" in Carbineer.
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