Carbineer Archive

Nova asked in another thread why someone considered the Carbineer the multitarget class, well although Im not this someone, Im going to answer it.

Now, I know, other classes have cone attacks just like us, but there are some big differences between ours and theirs. Lets take a look at the specials that are suppose to be area for us(or are area for us):

1. Action 2

2. Leg shot 3

3. Full Auto Area 1

4. Full Auto Area 2

5. Charge Shot 2

6. Suppression Fire 2

Ok, note one thing, we have 6 intended/current area attacks, this is far more than any other proffession. BH, Commando, and Swordsman, are all understandable why they have area attacks. Flame Throwers can easily hit multiple targets and so could anything that shoots electricity. Large 2 handed weapons can be spun(like the swordsman specials). Its also understandable why swordsman has fewer area attacks than us, as its much easier to hit multiple targets with a projectile weapon than a sword/hammer. Then, why do BH and Commando get fewer area attacks than us? They do not onlyspecialize in those weapons, so, they get fewer specials.

Also, all of those specials only do one thing...damage. They do not add effects or single target a pool, like quite a few of ours do. Leg Shot 3 will be the only area special that does targeted damage. Action shot 2 is the only one that bleeds. Action shot 2 and suppression are the only ones that suppress. Charge shot 2 will be the only one that kd and the Full Autos are the only ones that add dizzy/stun/blind. Now, you may say that Commandoes add the flame dot to theirs, but thats silly as its a property of the weapon not the skill.

Now, if thats enough, take in consideration that we also have the only skills that target multiple pools, besides pistoleers fan shot(I think thats the only other one). Why? We use carbines which are far more easier to hit multiple parts of the body and multiple targets in a short amount of time.

In short, the fact that we have so many different area attacks, and they all do useful things other than just damage, it is my oppinon that the carbineer was the devs multitarget class. If I made any mistakes, please correct me, and if I forgot to say something, please add it.

doesn't wild shot2 do area stun?

TKA has 2 area attacks (maybe more, not sure about that)

fencerand pikeman have4 area attacks (maybe more, again)

swordsman has 6 area attacks

all the melee classes have warcry which has a cone effect

and fencer has a scatter hit1+2 which - I think - is the melee version of carbines scatter shot1+2

in my opinion carbine is the class for ranged area attacks

So, allow me to play devil's advocate in the interest of good discussion.

Given that AoE/cone specials are not useful in all situations (actually, they can turn quite deadly if not used carefully), is it your opinion the class should have more or less AoE/specials?

I also want to add that BH, commandos, rifleman and pistoleers have cone/AoE specials.

There should be some AOE specials, but not as many as there are now. I say make #1 and #2 single target attacks, but the rest should stay AOE.

I could be wrong but I think Fan Shot is only supposed to hit multiple pools on a single target. But in actuality it hits random HAM in an AOE cone. They were actually going to take away the AOE but I think the Pistoleer correspondent may have fought that off. I dropped Master Gunfighter before this last patch so I could be wrong.

I would prefer Carbineer being the kings of Multitarget fighting.... It would make sense... a carbine capable of going full auto makes more sense then a pistol to be an AOE king....

We could be like pistoleers and be effective against one target, Be lethal against one target like Rifleman.... Or the Mainstay of Massive Firefights and taking multiple opponents down, like Carbineers.

Aww crud... I missed this.

I posted my reply here.

Ah thats one thing I wasn't aware of was AoE for the melee classes. But on the same note, the carbineer's corresponding melee profession should get more AoE specials.. Is it pikeman?

I'm not looking for a total AoE profession, but one that uses these AoE skills in certain situations. A carbineer could pelt the battlefieldwith blaster fire in PvP.. not doing large amounts of damage but taking a little off of everyone. Add some suppression fire/KD fire and you get some good tactics being formed on both sides. In PvE since most creatures do melee and all aggro to one target (not always) AoE effects should be used with care so as to not draw in other mobs from the surrounding area.

As to the AoE bleed... I understand that many really want to have the same type of bleed as the other 2 professions, where the second hits with more damage. One solution is to add a 3rd bleed with the strength of the first one but AoE. This might be too much but it could be an option.

Again this was posted with a lack of coffee in my system and I may just be rambling...

I think that cone attacks are very powerful. Getting rid of one would be a mistake in my opinion. If our ChargeShot 2 worked, we would be able to handle the swarm. If I can bleed 3 targets , then knock them down (of course with a chance of failure) I would be able to kill em faster as they bleed. It would take effort to keep them all at bay, but that is the fun for me. I love seeing some NPC headin for my mates and takin em down with a chargeshot, then switchin back to the one after me and takin it down.

Essentially what i am saying is: area knockdown is no good without a working area dizzy, which would be all the better with an area bleed. Get all 3 together, you can rock PVE or PVP even harder, but just with a little more planning. Sounds good to me.

J'woo Olron
Ahazi - Defenders of Los Planos

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novamarine wrote:

So, allow me to play devil's advocate in the interest of good discussion.

Given that AoE/cone specials are not useful in all situations (actually, they can turn quite deadly if not used carefully), is it your opinion the class should have more or less AoE/specials?

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We do have a good array of non-area attacks, which are useful in those situations that area attacks are not. I know, having an area bleed would be really effective when trying to take multiple creatures(probably 3 at most though, dont want to get swarmed) and put with full auto area 2(for dizzy)and charge shot 2 then some leg shot 3swould help more than how it helps now. Right now, as I see, our area attacks arent as effecient because of broke specials(legshot 3 isnt area,which they are going to change to,the full autos not dizzying, and charge shot 2) and just leading to your death if you accidently pull MOBs.

Now, if you dont want to attack area, you got crippleshot for major damage, burst shot for good damage over time, action shot 1 for a bleed, leg shot 2 for targeted damage, scatter shot 2 for multiham hits,charge shot 1 for kd, and full auto single for dizzy/blind/stun. That is plenty for any MoB, and really, its mainly what we use right now and it is effective.

I know the main reason why you want action 2 to be single target is so that you can safely stack bleeds, but, you can safely stack bleeds right now, if you manuver and manipulate your target to a place where the cone wont hit anything else(its not as hard as it sounds, I know Ive done it on a number of occasions, and thats one reason its cone and not aoe).

So, as it is planned now, I feel we have enough AoE attacks, if our specials get fixed. We do not need anymore and certainly do not need any taken away.

OK, now for my devils advocate

Do you want to become more like pistoleer and/or rifleman or do you want to stay unique?

Oops... I said "area knockdown is no good without a working area dizzy"

I thought about this & I think it should be a single target dizzy. Area dizzy would be awesome, too awesome for it to be fair cause I could dizzy everything, knock it all down and have a beer while they stand & fall, stand & fall.... would be fun in PVP though

J'woo Olron
Ahazi - Defenders of Los Planos