Carbineer Archive
Thread: Official Top 5 Issues 4/9/04
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novamarine
Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:51 am
#1
Here are the new Top 5 Issues for the Carbineer profession I submitted to Thunderheart on 4/9/2004. We are doing a Top 5 on a quarterly basis now. The goal of doing them quarterly is so that every profession can get their Top 5 updated in case of changes and, importantly, so that it creates a paper trail of issues that are not being resolved. Issues that stay around will likely be given higher priority. In addition, you will notice I included a few extra issues. This is allowed and I did this so that the Devs have an exhaustive list of all the carbineer issues no matter how slight. The ordering of the extra ones is not really important but the Top 5 are in the order we discussed in many threads over the past week. I did make a small change to issue #5. Some players did not like the name of "fullautoon" so I renamed it "assault tactics". I felt this name matched really well with our profession. Here they are:
1. HAM Costs
The HAM costs for the various carbine specials are so high that the carbineer skills cannot be effectively used in combat without doctor buffs, extensive food use or heavy investment into medical skills.
Solution: Lower the HAM costs to balance the carbineer specials with other classes.
2. Carbine speed
Currently carbineer has +60 at master and as a result, carbines are the slowest of the ranged elite professions meaning the ranged professions are not balanced. The slow speed makes it difficult to contribute to a group in PvE because other professions are firing faster thus doing more damage. It also makes engaging in PvP largely futile. The low speed of carbineer forces players to either accept it, spend millions on speed enhancing tapes or spend all of their remaining points to add bounty hunter for more speed.
Solution: A little speed goes a long way. Bringing the class up to +75 speed at master would help infinitely. We suggest +10 more in the Master Carbineer box and +5 more in the Master Assault Tactics box
3. Defenses
Carbineers lag behind other elite professions in defenses. Even melee professions typically have more ranged defense than carbineers. The carbineer profession has many AoE/cone specials which draw significant attention to the player. Without sufficient defenses, these skills are more suicidal than practical. The carbineer profession does not have sufficient offensive power to warrant the lack of defenses currently in the game. In addition, it has recently come to light (thanks to Keldarin) that counterattack is not working properly in that it is; #1 not working frequently enough and #2 not “counterattacking” (it appears to be working merely as a dodge). Keldarin knows the specifics on this bug and how to reproduce it.
Solution: Fix counterattack so that it “counterattacks” and activates as often as it should.
Solution: Increase ranged defense.
Solution: Increase resistance to states including stun and blind.
Solution: Increase ranged defense.
Solution: Increase resistance to states including stun and blind.
4. Carbine Selection
Carbineers only have access to carbines that do energy, acid and heat. These are incredibly common resists in both PvE and PvP. Many high-end targets (for example, certain nightsisters) cannot even be damaged by carbineers meaning they are unable to participate in certain high-end content. It is highly unfair that this profession is unable to participate in certain content. Further, many other ranged classes including pistoleer and rifleman have access to many more types of damage including Stun.
Solution: Increase selection of carbine damage types beyond the most common resists so that carbineers can be effective in both PvE and PvP. Many players are adamant that carbineer receives a stun carbine so that they can effectively compete in PvP.
5. No special or skill gained at Master
Carbineers gain no new special in the Master box. Many players are very upset by this. A minority feel we have enough specials already and do not really need a new special but should adjust the granting of specials in the skill tree (i.e. move a good skill into the master box). Many suggestions have been made regarding what should be in the master box. I am providing four suggestions. Three are specials and one is a new activated buff (similar to power boost or center of being). The activated buff idea is popular because it adds something at master while not adding another special (addressing the concerns of both sides). In addition, the activated buff would provide an element of uniqueness to the class (this is an old issue that comes up often but did not make the Top 5 cut).
Suggested bonuses for Master:
•Assault Tactics: a small boost to carbine speed (+10), a small boost to counterattack (+10) and a small boost to running speed (higher than normal, lower than burst run).
This skill would be an activated buff similar to center of being or power boost. It would have a short duration
(~ 3 minutes) followed by a slightly longer cooldown (~5 minutes).
•GrazingFire: AoE/cone special that has a good chance of intimidate.
•FullAutoSingle3 (possible new name? Disintegrating Blast): Higher damage version of fullautosingle2 with a higher chance of stun/dizzy/blind.
•Crippleshot2 (possible new name? Eviscerating Volley): Higher damage version of crippleshot.
Message Edited by novamarine on 04-12-2004 09:55 AM
PadawanChong
Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:54 am
#2
1. HAM Costs
The HAM costs for the various carbine specials are so high that the carbineer skills cannot be effectively used in combat without doctor buffs, extensive food use or heavy investment into medical skills.
Solution: Lower the HAM costs to balance the carbineer specials with other classes.
I'm just now getting started on Carbineer, so I'm not sure what the specials are - especially on the higher-up guns - but I know certain specials on my rifle take about 135 from my mind pool without a buff/food/drink combo.
I sure hope carbines don't drain action that much.
Zhennu
Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:41 am
#4
Great post Novamarine, for telling it like it is. Carbineers in PvP (as I found out first hand) have a great disadvantage when it comes to PvP. They dont have the speed & Damage as was said in this post and the Cost on using Specials (Event with Great Doctor Buffs) is way too high which puts the Carbineer in a very bad position (If he wasn't already).
What to do to fix this? I feel some great ideas have been said here already. I do agree if nothing is done to the Carbineer, it will be a profession less played, and not even considered.
Irxosskisx
Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:25 am
#5
10. Chargeshot1 and 2 have a charge animation
When using chargeshot1 or 2, the players goes through a charging animation and moves 5 m closer to the target. The special can only be used standing and will not work prone or kneeling. Many players find this greatly annoying. Others are indifferent. Truth be told, it is frustrating the special cannot be used from prone or kneeling and it is very difficult to keep in the carbine ideal range when the specials continue to move you closer to the target. The fundamental question that is asked is, is the effect of the special worth the fact it can only be used standing and that it moves you 5 m closer?
Solution: Many players would like to see this animations standing-only restriction removed. However, since some players like it, is there a middle ground? Can the special be changed to move less? Perhaps 2 m? Could it be modified to use from a kneeling position?
I don't see the issue with Charge shot... It's a Charge Shot so you charge the Target... Personally I love it. It's almost always my first attack. I start 5m from Ideal then charge forward. If you use from kneeling or prone it would stand to reason that you should get up and charge the target. This shot is something that is different than any other in the ranged line... please keep it......
Rorenikibi
Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:30 am
#6
Great work on the PvP issues. Nothing more frustrating than unloading spammed FullAutoSingle2 from a carbine at 1.0 speed with 135-238 damage and barely doing 10% damage after over a minute of fire (this while burstrunning and delaying with ActionShot2 and ChargeShot2.) and the TKM in question finishes me in six hits.
wilibus
Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:22 pm
#8
Everything looks to be in order here, wonder how long before we hear from the Devs about any of them.
TAfirehawk
Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:02 pm
#9
PadawanChong wrote:
1. HAM Costs
The HAM costs for the various carbine specials are so high that the carbineer skills cannot be effectively used in combat without doctor buffs, extensive food use or heavy investment into medical skills.
Solution: Lower the HAM costs to balance the carbineer specials with other classes.
I'm just now getting started on Carbineer, so I'm not sure what the specials are - especially on the higher-up guns - but I know certain specials on my rifle take about 135 from my mind pool without a buff/food/drink combo.
I sure hope carbines don't drain action that much.
Not to start too much a discussion in this thread, but I can easily drain my Action bar by 250-300 per special.......no other profession compares to the HAM costs of Carbineer.
Sivol
Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:02 pm
#10
No stun damage Carbine. Acid/Energy damage vs 90% composite and 3k ham pool = teh suq. Speed - we need to at least be able to hit speed cap with +25 skill tapes. HAM cost? Well im a master doc so that doesnt matter to me really. Defenses? I had +125 melee and range defense... I never evaded anything after they put in the cap, so I could careless. I had +80 blind/dizzy, 110 KD, 55 stun... was completely not worth the skill points. I maybe evaded a blind or a dizzy 1 in 12 times. Master doc to cure all states is far more useful. We do very well in pve, its just the huge armour and ham pools we have to deal with in pvp (the end game for most). Ill gladly trade in my Elite Carbine for a similar style Sonic Blaster. With the combat revamp pushed off for another 2 years, we need stun damage!
Message Edited by Sivol on 04-12-2004 03:08 PM
GenkaiDama
Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:05 pm
#11
5. No special or skill gained at Master
Carbineers gain no new special in the Master box. Many players are very upset by this. A minority feel we have enough specials already and do not really need a new special but should adjust the granting of specials in the skill tree (i.e. move a good skill into the master box). Many suggestions have been made regarding what should be in the master box. I am providing four suggestions. Three are specials and one is a new activated buff (similar to power boost or center of being). The activated buff idea is popular because it adds something at master while not adding another special (addressing the concerns of both sides). In addition, the activated buff would provide an element of uniqueness to the class (this is an old issue that comes up often but did not make the Top 5 cut).
Suggested bonuses for Master:
•Assault Tactics: a small boost to carbine speed (+10), a small boost to counterattack (+10) and a small boost to running speed (higher than normal, lower than burst run).
This skill would be an activated buff similar to center of being or power boost. It would have a short duration
(~ 3 minutes) followed by a slightly longer cooldown (~5 minutes).
•GrazingFire: AoE/cone special that has a good chance of intimidate.
•FullAutoSingle3 (possible new name? Disintegrating Blast): Higher damage version of fullautosingle2 with a higher chance of stun/dizzy/blind.
•Crippleshot2 (possible new name? Eviscerating Volley): Higher damage version of crippleshot
I suggest a Master special called Disentegrate. Boba Fett was known for his disentegrations using his EE3. Other than his rocket launchers and occasionally pistols, he was always using that EE3. Perfect kill shot for the Carbineer IMHO.
Xieflow
Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:38 pm
#12
Carbine Selection:
As a Weaponsmith / Carbineer, I've really noticed the lack of weapons the Carbineer has.
What the Carbineer needs is something like the DXR6b Rifle / Scythe. A higher end weapon that really stands out as something very useful.
What I would like to see is this :
First, it would have to be AP2 or AP3. Attack Speed of around 2.0 or 2.5 on an unstocked version. Damage Range 200 min - 250 max (I can get DXR6b Rifles to 200 min damage with an advanced stock, and yellow cubes)
It would require loot the same way the DXR6b rifle requires power cubes, and it would be as easy to gather parts for as the DXR6b rifle (as in not as "rare" as the scythe). Something like a static, repeatable quest in a new dungeon (like the DXR6b schematic)
Damage type? I would like to see Blast or Cold. Stun is overrated, and hopefully will be balanced in a future patch. Blast and Cold seem to be the... "lesser" damage types, not many weapons have them.
As a Weaponsmith / Carbineer, I've really noticed the lack of weapons the Carbineer has.
What the Carbineer needs is something like the DXR6b Rifle / Scythe. A higher end weapon that really stands out as something very useful.
What I would like to see is this :
First, it would have to be AP2 or AP3. Attack Speed of around 2.0 or 2.5 on an unstocked version. Damage Range 200 min - 250 max (I can get DXR6b Rifles to 200 min damage with an advanced stock, and yellow cubes)
It would require loot the same way the DXR6b rifle requires power cubes, and it would be as easy to gather parts for as the DXR6b rifle (as in not as "rare" as the scythe). Something like a static, repeatable quest in a new dungeon (like the DXR6b schematic)
Damage type? I would like to see Blast or Cold. Stun is overrated, and hopefully will be balanced in a future patch. Blast and Cold seem to be the... "lesser" damage types, not many weapons have them.
Ajo79
Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:48 am
#13
Good work, novamarine.
Awesome list. Hope we can get some concrete answers to this.
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