Carbineer Archive
Thread: You guys are driving me crazy! (PvP Templates)
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AdmiralSpy
Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:05 pm
#1
Heh, I apologize if my posts are sometimes conflicting. I always think in terms of end-game PvP, as in maximizing your template purely for PvP. Of course, not all players wish to dedicate all their skillpoints to it, which means that sometimes posts can vary.
Let me recap.
Defenses:
In terms of defenses, you need 80-90 in State Defenses in order for them to be "effective".. for you to notice a difference, against the TOP PvPers out there. The reason is because accuracy easily bypasses anything under this number, so that you could still easily get dizzied with say 60 defense vs. dizzy.
I suggested that in order to properly defense-stack as the term is generally used, you need to couple some defenses of Fencer, TK and Pistoleer. Now the catch is that this is not possible with most Carbineer templates which include the BH line. Defense-stacking is a very general term which applies mainly to melee tanking templates and generally involves two or more of the 3 stacking possibilities.
I basically wished to point out that stacking with one of these 3 will help, but it is NOT PvP effective (again as far as high-end PvP goes.) 50-60 Stun or Blind defense is worthless, for example, against even another Carbineer. You would NOT notice an effect if you were constantly PvPing day in day out. However, in PvE, you would notice a significant boost from the Pistoleer Techniques line, so if you are trying to balance out both PvE and PvP, it may be worthwhile.
The sad thing is, however, that even 100+ state defenses does not render you godlike in terms of states and posture changes. You can still get dizzied and KDd if your opponent is willing enough.. Pikeman are simply the best for this because of their specials. Generally, however, ALL other professions will have a hell of a time getting you down if you properly defense-stack. I can't remember the last time I was even blinded or stunned in PvP, to be honest.
Medic:
I find that Pharmacology 4 (0040 Medic) is essential to any good PvP template, or atleast, some Medic. Many people are used to relying on Doctors for both poison/disease cures and damage heals. In high end PvP, however, area poisons and fires and sabers are flying all over the place, and being able to atleast control your Health and Action through the use of Stims, I find, is vital. It means you can dedicate most if not all of your food towards the Mind Pool, so that essentially, the only thing that could kill you would be a really strong Mind DoT or overwhelming odds and damage to your Health and Action pool.
Many other Carbineers decide to skimp on the medic side, because Carbineer is not regarded as a "top" PvP profession by itself (it's strength lies in middle-end PvE, where Medic is not needed.)
If you want to dedicate your template to PvP, I would recommend significant Medic skills over Pistoleer defenses.
General:
My posts are based on being able to speedcap without the BH line. This is where Firehawk's post about choosing BH as an offensive role comes in. When you pickup the BH line, you immediately throw out your rate of survival out the window. It's a sacrifice that you make in order to gain an advantage in specials, speed and accuracy.
Both the Bounty Hunter and Carbineer professions lack severely in the ways of defenses, which means that you must compensate with atleast Thakatillo (KD food). I wouldn't worry about dizzy food.. if anything, you'd want to use Pikatta Pie (dodge %) or Snowcake (accuracy boost), along with perhaps Canape/Ahrisa and of course 2-3 Brandies.
Summing it all up:
If I were you, I'd look into possibly dabbling into the FS Melee speed branch, which can add +12 effective Carbine Speed, at which point, you'd need +18 Carbine Speed in attachments to speedcap. Collect them in +4s, +5s, whatever. If you don't mind spending credits with the possible risk of a Combat Revamp change, then investing in Carbine Speed attachments is the BEST thing you can do.
Once you do have +30 Carbine Speed, I'd recommend dropping the BH line altogether, and then defense-stacking with 2 or more professions. You will notice your success in PvP will quadruple when you do, as you will essentially be a "ranged melee fighter", heh.
Until then, however, you must make the following choice:
- Dedicate your template to part-PvE/part-PvP and pick up Pistoleer defenses, some FS-skills,and some low-level medic which can be interchanged for Brawler/Artistan, etc. This is a more balanced template.
- Dedicate your template to primarily PvP and pick up significant Medic skills.
AdmiralSpy
Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:22 pm
#2
Just wanted to add that currently my template is:
Master Carbineer
Master Fencer
0040 Pistoleer
0040 Medic
0003 Combat Prowess
This gives me:
CounterAttack: +105 (125 w/ SEAs)
Def. vs. Blind: +80 (90 w/ SEAs)
Def. vs. Dizzy: +80 (91 w/ SEAs)
Def. vs. Intim. +45 (55 w/ SEAs)
Def. vs. Stun: +40 (65 with BE clothing 18/18 on bothshirt and pants)
Dodge: 115 (125 w/ SEAs)
Ranged Def: +98 (108 with 2 aakuan rings, 115 with SEAs)
Melee Def: +74 (82 w/ BE clothing on shirt/pants, 89 w/ SEAs)
Carbine Speed: +60 at Master, add 9 with FS, 25 in attachments for a total of 91.
Carbine Accuracy: +130 at Master, +155 with SEAs
Carb. acc. w/ moving: +30 at master, +55 w/ SEAs.
In other words, a boatload of credits spent on Carbine SEAs to cap speed, accuracy, accuracy while moving and CounterAttack, along with a few defensive attachments here and there to cap Dodge and to boost state defenses inthe 90 range. I can still boost Ranged and Melee Defense a bit with attachments, but I prefer to spend credits on higher damage krayt or DoT Carbines instead.
Both Stun and Intimidate defenses are significantly lower.. but few players end up using Stun (which is their mistake, they should), whereas Intimidate is really a problem I have to deal with. Generally, it's not too bad, but with Intimidate BE'd clothing, it can get nasty.
It is possible to pick up some TK skills to boost more defenses and to cut back on Medic, but 0040 allows me to use Med Use 40 Stim Es with a base of around 1100, which can heal me for 1500-1900 a hit. That helps a lot in PvP, especially against Jedi. 
It also allows me to heal my teammates rather well, as health/action incaps are more and more frequent now that Combat Medics have been nerfed and Doctors have resist buff packs and Area cures.
Message Edited by AdmiralSpy on 12-14-2004 05:24 PM
bOoGiEman7
Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:44 pm
#4
Well im a carbineer on starsider (rare) and so is addy, Addy has a good template, but mine is also pretty good i think, i'm 4-3-0-4 Carbineer, 0-4-0-0 Bh, 4-0-0-0 Tkm and pharm 4.
Addy is leaving out one thing though to be sucessful at pvp, YOUR GROUP. Now folks you gotta understand that Addy is in a VERY skilled and VERY coordinated pvp guild, dont get me wrong he kicks as5 beyone belief, but he has a wonderful supporting cast. Me on the other hand, just changed from rebel to imperial, and no rebs or imps trust me, Cept addy.
anyways i was getting off topic there, you should do what YOU want, do what feels right, were all here just giving eachother tips. personally, i'd love to go MC/MCM but im WAAAAY to lazy to do the Cm crafting
Addy is leaving out one thing though to be sucessful at pvp, YOUR GROUP. Now folks you gotta understand that Addy is in a VERY skilled and VERY coordinated pvp guild, dont get me wrong he kicks as5 beyone belief, but he has a wonderful supporting cast. Me on the other hand, just changed from rebel to imperial, and no rebs or imps trust me, Cept addy.
anyways i was getting off topic there, you should do what YOU want, do what feels right, were all here just giving eachother tips. personally, i'd love to go MC/MCM but im WAAAAY to lazy to do the Cm crafting
Message Edited by bOoGiEman7 on 12-14-2004 04:45 PM
CIO_DarkSaber
Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:54 pm
#5
Well, I'm glad to see that my post about carbineer defenses stirred up somuch controversy. =)
Basically I understand now that going BH pretty much dictates a switch on my part to the philosophy of The Best Defense Is A Good Offense. This makes me the Indianapolis Colts of PvP I guess, because Peyton was fine last seasonuntil he encountered a properly balanced team that was really BUILT to win (the Patriots).
Makes a perfect comparison here (see Footnote 1), because in this game you really don'treach the top rungs ofthe PvP arena unless you deliberately and completely build your char towards hardcore combat. Perhaps after the CU there will be such a thing as "casual" PvP.
But it's occurred to me that I really don't want that. This game is supposed to make it fun for me in whatever profession I choose...and I like carbines. So I'm going to stick with it. I don't want to just join the uber-defense-stacking crowd because It's What Works...I want to stick with my trusty laser carbines and state specials and find a way to MAKE it work. =)
So I'm perfectly happy and grateful for the advice given me by the experience carbineers on this forum (footnote 2). I honestly never thought of going 0040 medic, that does sound like it would help. And going all-out offense as a BH does make a little sense considering how many of my Jedi targets are grouped with their uber buddies these days...if I don't kill a Jedi quickly, I lose my edge anyway.
And I like what Addy said about the Group...I fully intend to include my guildmates in my PvP and BH travels. I've always enjoyed group activities, and it seems that my carbineer powers will definitely come in handy in larger-scale battles.
Footnote 1: I firmly believe that the answer to every problem in life, can be found in football.
Footnote 2: Blatant suck-up here. 
Message Edited by CIO_DarkSaber on 12-14-2004 10:55 PM
Niyol
Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:32 am
#6
OK, so finally I am starting to feel pretty comfortable with my currenttemplate... I've been doing really well in PvE while making money to gear up for the basics needed for PvP. Then I come here and start delving into these PvP threads... I'm getting alot of conflicting information and on top of that, the info that originallyguided me to my current template now seems frowned upon.
Acouple months ago I posted that I was going MC/MCM. Well, turns out I didn't like MCM for various reasons. The advice I was given at the time was to add BH carbs,Pistoleer defenses and screw anymedic skills. So, this is now my current template (still working on FS skills but this will be the final outcome):
MCarbineer / BH 0400 / Pistoleer 0044 / FS Reflexes 4400 / FS Combat 4000
That leaves 15 points I can use to switch between novice medic and novice brawler as the situation dictates.
High end SEA's are out of reach for me, as they and all high end lootwill be for newer players for a long time to come.
OK, so now I'm hearing that my defenses are worthless.
Addy says, "In order to properly defense stack (to notice an effect), you must couple atleast two of Pistoleer, Fencer and TK."
TAfirehawk says, "WIth BH you choose offense over defense as 47 Skill Points is nowhere near enough defense for PvP."
But I'm also heaing that ALL defenses are useless:
Addy says, "With 95 defense vs. Dizzy, for example, a Pikeman guildmate of mine dizzied me in1 hit, and aTK dizzied me in 3.. and I hada Stun baton in-handand CenterOfBeing going!"
So which is it? Or is it that defense stacking only works on carbineers?
And who the heck cares about skilless fotmpikemen anyway? Can anyone consistantlybeat them and their10 mil DOTsunless you are melee/doc? I sure as heck am not going to try making a carbineer template tocounter them... seems it's simply gank them or die, IMO. Ok, under the right circumstances with terrian negotiation and some good kiting you may have a chance, albeit a slim one.
And, of course, medic skills, which I was laughed at a couple months ago for wanting to keep, seem to be all the rage now:
Addy says, "My suggestion is to go Medic 0040 at the minimum"
And how bigare your stomachs? Between all the defense foods, offense foods and mind enhancing foods one apparentlyneeds to consume, I have to wonder.
Say I "offense stack" by adding more Pistoleer and BH... am I still a carbineer then? If my tactic is to apply states then whip out my geo pistolso i can endlesslyspam mind attacks, that is hardly a carbineer anymore... and doesn't really sound very fun.
Arrgh!
*rips out hair*
I like you guys but seriously... hehe.
Anyway, the purpose of this thread was to consolidate a few key issues, as I saw it, and to tear apart my template. Now get to it! 
PS: Thanks for originallyrecommending addingBH 0400, btw... I love it.
TAfirehawk
Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:38 am
#7
Actually the one comment from Addy on Defense vs. Dizzy +95 is just to say we are not uber even at the top of our game. Unfortunately that is the life of a Carbineer.
It is important to clarify that a Carbineer Defense Stacker MUST have SEA's, otherwise the smart play is BH and Offense Stacking.
So for the most part all the info is correct.....but in the end, you must do what YOU feel is fun
BTW, I don't have a bit of Medic on my PvP toon and it works just fine.....the Armor/PSG/Buffs/Food/Drink/Kiting make it so I don'tneed Medic. On my PvE toon however, I have went up 2140 Medic but that is more to help my CH Pets than anything.
bOoGiEman7
Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:17 am
#8
CIO_DarkSaber wrote:Well, I'm glad to see that my post about carbineer defenses stirred up so much controversy. =)Basically I understand now that going BH pretty much dictates a switch on my part to the philosophy of The Best Defense Is A Good Offense. This makes me the Indianapolis Colts of PvP I guess, because Peyton was fine last season until he encountered a properly balanced team that was really BUILT to win (the Patriots).Message Edited by CIO_DarkSaber on 12-14-2004 10:55 PM
ahem GIVE MY STEELERS CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE PAL!
jassi007
Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:55 am
#9
OMG Steelers!!!! They are having a frikin awsome season! I feel bad for Tommy M. though, he did the Steelers a service when they needed him.
bOoGiEman7
Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:46 am
#10
jassi007 wrote:
OMG Steelers!!!! They are having a frikin awsome season! I feel bad for Tommy M. though, he did the Steelers a service when they needed him.
tommy is a good man, and so is benny
\
WOOT 12-1
Karbal
Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:36 pm
#11
STEELERS ALL THE WAY .. they just crushed Baltimore !!
Karbal
Jedi Hunter
TAfirehawk
Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:49 pm
#12
OK, stop this off-topic posting please.....it violates the ToS.....rules are linked in a STICKY at the top of this Forum.
PsionicHawk
Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:51 pm
#13
If I may offer an alternative to medic 0/0/4/0.
4/0/0/0.
You'll get Stim B's to use, but more importantly you'll the underutilized ability QuickHeal. Without any speed your using heals once every 8 seconds. With this you get Stim B's to use for your normal healing but in a pinch can use the ability QuickHeal to heal yourself for approx 1000 damage every second.
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