Carbineer Archive
Thread: Carbineer Issues/Problems Reported
TAfirehawk wrote:
1. Why does the Enhanced E11 Carbine convert to the lower E11 version but a regular E11 converts to the Mk.2?
2. What does Suppression Fire do and when it is fixed will it be the only Ability for our Primary Role in the CU Docs? It appears to have no State Effect like the Description in-game states. Without this Ability we have ZERO CROWD CONTROL Abilities beside Full Auto Area that is a damage only attack.
3. Why are both the Level 30 Carbines not WS craftable? We have no Carbine between Level 22 and Level 40.
Here is the Top 10 as reported in the Corr Forum BEFORE the CU went LIVE on 4/24/05:
TAfirehawk wrote:
I only recently starteda thread to compile Carbineer Posts because I wanted a more 'mature' CU to generate issues/problems, but here is the list so far:
- Distinction. Carbineer isn't bad, but its nothing really special. Its like rifleman, but without the snipershot. Its like pistoleer, but with only 1 root and no intimdate. FullAutoArea and when it works Supressionfire just don't seem to give carbineer its distinction. Supressionfire is giong to need to have a wide wide cone and a very nice effect if its going to make us. Profession Role per CU Docs is absolutely not happening, we have ONE Cone Damage Only Special (secondary role but weak at that even) and ZERO Crowd Control Specials
- Action costs, its like pre-buff days all over again. I dueled a melee stacker with a carbineer/pistoleer combo and I could make sure he could never touch me because of roots and snares, but I never could kill him. I always ran out of action before I could dent him. If you don't kill the enemy in less than a few seconds, your toast.
- My main qualm is that there are only 3 Carbineer specials worth using in pvp - Chargeshot, Legshot and cripple shot. And none of these are Crowd Control or Area Damage Abilities like our Roles are listed in the CU Docs. I am gutted that carbineer has lost its crowd control... In pvp i found myself singling out targets and then Kd'ing them... no other states to apply.
- The special "Suppression Fire" not doing its job; supression fire cannot be our definition of a crowd control profession. Explanation: As far as I can tell, the only skill that appears to do ANY sort of "crowd control" is supression fire, but it's still busted. Obviously this needs to be fixed and it's a start for crowd controlling, but this is insufficient for the profession to be "crowd control". I do a better job of controlling my enemies' dabbling in commando for the grenades in the Explosives line or dabbling a little bit in Smuggler or Pistoleer for root specials. I shouldn't have to necessarilly dabble into these professions to be able to effectively "crowd control."
- Where did our AOE KD go? Explanation: If any move is to really define "crowd control," I think Chargeshot 2 is the one in the old system. Bring this back in the CU as a Master Special for Master Carbineers. Obviously, this would help our profession to be truely a "crowd control" profession. It's rather sad, as I resort to use the Explosive lines in commando to use the "Imperial Detonator" to do an area KD.
- Existing E11 conversion is broken, nothing converts to the E11 Mk.2 but Pistols and Rifles get their weapons converted to the higher level weapon - at least make the Enhanced E11 on LIVE convert to the E11 Mk.2
- No WS craftable Carbines are between Level22 and Level 40, this makes leveling Carbine XP a nightmare and like no other profs
- No WS craftable Carbines have Kinetic or Acid, Cold, or Electricity damage types - Devs stated in the past that all profs would get all damage types for BALANCE, don't see much balance in Carbineer yet
- Please bring back our crowd control specials to actually do some crowd control ie: Chargeshot2 should still be AOE, Full Auto Area needs to still apply states
- Carbineer Defenses seem a bit high (I hate to say that, but it is true) for our relative ranking in the CU Docs - seems the Offense is about right and the Crowd Control has been forgotten entirely
Sorry there are overlapping concerns/issues/problems in that list, but there are really around 5-6 core issues and I wanted to put in my Community's text instead of my own as much as possible to fill out the rest of the Top 10. The bottom line is Carbineer is NOT playing anything like any of its description in the CU Docs.
Talset11 wrote:
Action costs is what really kills carbines for me right now. Temp is MBH/MCarb/pistol 0/0/3/3. Was fighting Krayts using my scatter pistol i could take down a giant with action left over. Using any of my carbs id run out with the krayt having half his health left. Action drain on my scatter was 84 and my carbs it was 110's-120's. Now if carbs did more damage to make up for the cost i could see the point but with weapons all being about the same based off of levels this really needs to be addressed.
Tal'set
Not sure what weapon you are using, but Special Action Cost on all Carbines is 94 (DXR6 is more) and right in line with Pistols.
Did a little testing of specials in DWB last night against a level 77 battle droid.
I was using a E-11 mrk II with a max damage of 924 modified speed of 1.44
I am a Master Bounty Hunter Master / Master Carbineer. All attacks used are the master level )i.e. advanced,Improved...whatever)
rapid fire damage 793 (everytime) quick recovery. This works pretty well because of how fast it recovers.
crippling shot - 394 (everytime) average recovery. Great attack the +snare+ hits about 80% of the time, but NPCs seem to move just as quickly with it, as without it.
full auto area - 793 slightlylonger than average recovery. This works great against lower level MOBs, against the level 77 battle droids it was a waste of action, better to just take them down one at a time. No special effects on the MOB either.
Legshot - 793 (everytime) average recovery. This shot does the same damage as rapid fire, but has no effects associated with it.
Scatter shot - 793 (everytime) average recovery. This shot does the same damage as rapid fire, but has no effects associated with it.
charge shot - 394 (everytime) slightly longer than average recovery. This shot is associated with the chrge animation. I find it knocked thetarget down about 25% of the time.
Suppression fire - 394 (everytime) long warm up, and long recovery. You all know this is broken.
Well, those were my numbers last night. I have noticed that scatter shot and leg shot seem to be unnecessary skills as they just do the same damage and you cannot attack anyother area than health. Also charge shot seems inferior to underhand shot from BH.
I noticed that the +40 carbine defense does not add into your ranged and melee defense on the character sheet, like the accuracy and speeds do.
Thanks hope this helps someone.
TalonKarrdeTN wrote:
I'll have to check again to be sure tonight, but I could have sworn that all the SAC's on the weapons I was wielding (again, TCEP3 with frog-obtained weaps) was a little over 100. I did try a template involving commando for a good while and may well just be remembering those weapons and be getting the two mixed up/confused, but I'll try to remember and check to make sure later when I'm home from work.
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 05-02-2005 05:11 PM
Craxus wrote:
I noticed that the +40 carbine defense does not add into your ranged and melee defense on the character sheet, like the accuracy and speeds do.
Thanks Ill check that out.
TAfirehawk wrote:
Craxus wrote:
I noticed that the +40 carbine defense does not add into your ranged and melee defense on the character sheet, like the accuracy and speeds do.
You need to check again, it sure does add in on both Ranged and Melee Defense....click on the Show Details checkbox and it will display how it adds up to the total.
Now I can't speak to how effective +40 more might be in a particular template, but it does increase it properly......no bug here
Talset11 wrote:
Action costs is what really kills carbines for me right now. Temp is MBH/MCarb/pistol 0/0/3/3. Was fighting Krayts using my scatter pistol i could take down a giant with action left over. Using any of my carbs id run out with the krayt having half his health left. Action drain on my scatter was 84 and my carbs it was 110's-120's. Now if carbs did more damage to make up for the cost i could see the point but with weapons all being about the same based off of levels this really needs to be addressed.
Tal'set
Prone is the secret. For speed ergo damage and action regen.
When i hunt large things i always prone about 10 behind melee-people. i do a BH eye shot which works relativily good for pulling 1 to 3 animals out of the group. then all the other crowdy things like intimitate, stun shots and so on... when critter is front of melees feet, knockdown, root, and eventuelly if more than one is comingi cycle targets with blinding , disarming and so on , to make sure my group take less damage. So i do my job in "group control" like i understand it. And it works great.
Of course Action bar goes down fast. I disabled auto-attack funktion on any attack. so if myaction is down i simply wait 3-10 secs depends on anything is attacking me and i have to bring him down or if i have time to wait for full action to do my job as group controller.
Btw. : as Master Bounty Hunter / Master Pistoleer / Carbineer 3030 i have slightly more offense points for carbinecompared to pistolin char-sheet.strange, but what can i do? So i can say i do equal damage with pistol and carbine. In fact on hunts i do so much damage with Zcerka Dart Carbine (spelled right?) and BH critical shots and body shots that i took animals from our tankers /shrug. I think because of kinetic damage. So be sure to put "duel stances" in when they come :-)
Sorry for broken english. I do my best
Yikre
Message Edited by davemusic on 05-03-2005 12:20 AM
Message Edited by davemusic on 05-03-2005 12:23 AM
Craxus wrote:
Did a little testing of specials in DWB last night against a level 77 battle droid.
I was using a E-11 mrk II with a max damage of 924 modified speed of 1.44
I am a Master Bounty Hunter Master / Master Carbineer. All attacks used are the master level )i.e. advanced,Improved...whatever)
rapid fire damage 793 (everytime) quick recovery. This works pretty well because of how fast it recovers.
crippling shot - 394 (everytime) average recovery. Great attack the +snare+ hits about 80% of the time, but NPCs seem to move just as quickly with it, as without it.
full auto area - 793 slightlylonger than average recovery. This works great against lower level MOBs, against the level 77 battle droids it was a waste of action, better to just take them down one at a time. No special effects on the MOB either.
Legshot - 793 (everytime) average recovery. This shot does the same damage as rapid fire, but has no effects associated with it.
Scatter shot - 793 (everytime) average recovery. This shot does the same damage as rapid fire, but has no effects associated with it.
charge shot - 394 (everytime) slightly longer than average recovery. This shot is associated with the chrge animation. I find it knocked thetarget down about 25% of the time.
Suppression fire - 394 (everytime) long warm up, and long recovery. You all know this is broken.
Well, those were my numbers last night. I have noticed that scatter shot and leg shot seem to be unnecessary skills as they just do the same damage and you cannot attack anyother area than health. Also charge shot seems inferior to underhand shot from BH.
I noticed that the +40 carbine defense does not add into your ranged and melee defense on the character sheet, like the accuracy and speeds do.
Thanks hope this helps someone.
Not sure why you got those numbers, but they are not right for PvE at least.....
Attacking Level 74 Seething Bol Crushers on Dant while I am Level 75 yields:
Improved Leg Shot - 1097 dam
Advanced Rapid Fire - 865 dam
Placed Shot - 635 dam
Crippling Shot - 432 dam
As you can see, our prof defining attack, Adv Rapid Fire, does less damage as a Master Level Special than Imp Leg Shot.....hence both Master Level Specials are broken.... 
I also got 9100 Carbine XP per kill (taking 140 dam/hit) and was in a group with a Padawan being >32m Ranged Tank 
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 05-02-2005 07:23 PM
TAfirehawk wrote:
Craxus wrote:
Not sure why you got those numbers, but they are not right for PvE at least.....
Attacking Level 74 Seething Bol Crushers on Dant while I am Level 75 yields:
Improved Leg Shot - 1097 dam
Advanced Rapid Fire - 865 dam
Placed Shot - 635 dam
Crippling Shot - 432 dam
As you can see, our prof defining attack, Adv Rapid Fire, does less damage as a Master Level Special than Imp Leg Shot.....hence both Master Level Specials are broken....
Maybe it's my account as I still have DXR6's that show up needing heavy weapons III.
Craxus wrote:
Maybe it's my account as I still have DXR6's that show up needing heavy weapons III.
Those are the numbers I always get. fighting a level 77 battle droid. It is consistant with my BH skills too. Spray shot 793. underhand shot 793. confusion shot 394. Torso shot 394. It seems everything that applies a state does 394 and evrything else does 793. THe only one that does more damage is Critical shot which hits with 1019.
Could be just me but I will test some more tonight.