Carbineer Archive
Thread: Ugh All of you made me change my mind :/
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PinkRebel
Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:14 am
#1
Master Carbineer BH 0/4/0/0 Novice Brawler, and MEDIC 4/2/4/0. Think that will work? Would I be able to do high end PvE?
TAfirehawk
Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:23 am
#2
Personally, no....but better than dabbling in Commando.
You are trying to simplify some very broad and complicated issues. The FAQ has pages and pages of info on whatCarbineer is, what the issues are, and what makes a good template. I could literally copy/paste for an hour to get all the info in here or type for ALL DAY to get you all the info.
Picking up Medic will get you by since you don't having any defense, but you will not have the damage types to beat everything.....which Commando could give you, but then you have no Medic. Even in the current screwed up, out of balance game we play in now, there is no one single template to dominate everything in all situations. And the Combat Upgrade will be tearing apart the few templates that are better than others now and creating a totally even playing field with much stronger pros/cons in template choosing.
I will say a Rifleman/Swordsman/Fencer/Medic is pretty damn close to being KING in the template world though and you can substitute Rifleman for Carbineer + SEA's 
But the real great thing about SWG is that if you don't like this template, then you can go try Commando.....or Fencer or TKA or Rifleman or even Armorsmith for that matter 
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-24-2004 09:28 AM
TAfirehawk
Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:34 am
#4
I know there is no Carbineer in this, but I have to be honest and say Carbineer does not factor in to a top of the line template....YET
Master Rifleman - Master Swordsman - 4400 Fencer - 0000 Medic - 0003 Combat Prowess
Block +80
Carbine Accuracy +10
Carbine Speed +5
Counterattack +110
Cover +80
Defense Vs. Blind +20
Defense Vs. Dizzy +30
Defense Vs. Intimidate +20
Defense Vs. Knockdown +75
Defense Vs. Posture Change (Down) +60
Defense Vs. Posture Change (Up) +30
Defense Vs. Stun +60
Dodge +30
Enhanced Melee Speed +9
Injury Treatment +5
Injury Treatment Speed +5
Medical Foraging +10
Medicine Assembly +10
Medicine Experimentation +10
Medicine Use +5
Melee Defense +129
One-handed Center Of Being Duration +26
One-handed Melee Center Of Being Efficacy +100
One-handed Melee Toughness +32
One-handed Weapon Accuracy +70
One-handed Weapon Speed +80
Pistol Accuracy +10
Pistol Speed +5
Polearm Accuracy +10
Polearm Center Of Being Duration +5
Polearm Center Of Being Efficacy +10
Polearm Speed +5
Ranged Defense +156
Rifle Accuracy +160
Rifle Accuracy While Moving +10
Rifle Aiming +100
Rifle Concealment Chance +100
Rifle Speed +90
Taunt +10
Two-handed Melee Accuracy +130
Two-handed melee Center of Being +31
Two-handed Melee Center Of Being Efficacy +120
Two-handed Melee Speed +75
Two-handed Melee Toughness +43
Unarmed Accuracy +10
Unarmed Center Of Being Duration +5
Unarmed Center Of Being Efficacy +10
Unarmed Damage +15
Unarmed Speed +5
Wound Treatment +5
Carbine Accuracy +10
Carbine Speed +5
Counterattack +110
Cover +80
Defense Vs. Blind +20
Defense Vs. Dizzy +30
Defense Vs. Intimidate +20
Defense Vs. Knockdown +75
Defense Vs. Posture Change (Down) +60
Defense Vs. Posture Change (Up) +30
Defense Vs. Stun +60
Dodge +30
Enhanced Melee Speed +9
Injury Treatment +5
Injury Treatment Speed +5
Medical Foraging +10
Medicine Assembly +10
Medicine Experimentation +10
Medicine Use +5
Melee Defense +129
One-handed Center Of Being Duration +26
One-handed Melee Center Of Being Efficacy +100
One-handed Melee Toughness +32
One-handed Weapon Accuracy +70
One-handed Weapon Speed +80
Pistol Accuracy +10
Pistol Speed +5
Polearm Accuracy +10
Polearm Center Of Being Duration +5
Polearm Center Of Being Efficacy +10
Polearm Speed +5
Ranged Defense +156
Rifle Accuracy +160
Rifle Accuracy While Moving +10
Rifle Aiming +100
Rifle Concealment Chance +100
Rifle Speed +90
Taunt +10
Two-handed Melee Accuracy +130
Two-handed melee Center of Being +31
Two-handed Melee Center Of Being Efficacy +120
Two-handed Melee Speed +75
Two-handed Melee Toughness +43
Unarmed Accuracy +10
Unarmed Center Of Being Duration +5
Unarmed Center Of Being Efficacy +10
Unarmed Damage +15
Unarmed Speed +5
Wound Treatment +5
That is not king of the State Defenses like Fencer/Pistoleer/TKA stacking is, but the damage output and damage types don't show on this list and that is where this template is KING. But personally this wouldn't be a challenge to me and I would be extremely bored, so I haven't even done Rifleman OR Swordsman for that fact. But after the Combat Upgrade I may give them a go
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-24-2004 09:36 AM
DrendalKahn
Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:45 am
#5
TAfirehawk wrote:
....
That is not king of the State Defenses like Fencer/Pistoleer/TKA stacking is, but the damage output and damage types don't show on this list and that is where this template is KING. But personally this wouldn't be a challenge to me and I would be extremely bored, so I haven't even done Rifleman OR Swordsman for that fact. But after the Combat Upgrade I may give them a go
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-24-2004 09:36 AM
You sayin' they're going to be a challenge after the CB? Moreso than cabineer? 
We wont tell. 
AdmiralSpy
Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:50 am
#6
Firehawk is right in stating that Carbineer isn't even in the spectrum when you consider high-end PvE.
BH/Carbineer is great for Low to middle-end PvE (ie, up to Janta/Mokk missions). As soon as you start talking about the Geo Caves, the DWB, Krayts, Nightsisters or the Corvette, though.. if you don't have any melee profession in your template, you're cooked (with the exception of Rifleman.)
The *best* PvE template you can pick that has Master Carbineer in it is something like: Master Carbineer, Master Swordsman, some Pistoleer/Fencer defenses and a bit of Medic.
The only problem you have here is the lack of both Carbine and 2-handed Speed, which must be substituted for with attachments. If you're lucky, you can even spend 4 SP on the bugged FS melee speed tree and get +12 speed to both professions, which I would recommend if you picked this up.
Off the bat, I ran a few possible combinations:
Master Carbineer, Master Swordsman, Fencer 4440, Combat Prowess 0004. You need 18 Carbine Speed and 15 2-handed speed to cap any regularweapon with this.
Master Carbineer, Master Swordsman, Pistoleer 0040, Combat Prowess 0003, Medic 0040. You need 21 Carbine speed and 18 2-h speed to cap.
Skills can of course be traded back and forth between Fencer/Pistoleer/Medic as you choose, but you'll notice that either route requires bonus attachments. If you don't want to or can't afford these, simply going up Teras Kasi is a sure bet. You won't do as much damage, but you're still lethal and a great tank, and can also PvP decently.
In other words, for the really high-end stuff, any form of BH is useless. I'm sorry my Carbineer brothers and sisters.. it's the truth, heh. TAFirehawk is pushing to put us up there come the CB, though, so you can of course choose to pursue the professions which you find fun and wait it out a bit.
TAfirehawk
Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:43 pm
#7
DrendalKahn wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
....
That is not king of the State Defenses like Fencer/Pistoleer/TKA stacking is, but the damage output and damage types don't show on this list and that is where this template is KING. But personally this wouldn't be a challenge to me and I would be extremely bored, so I haven't even done Rifleman OR Swordsman for that fact. But after the Combat Upgrade I may give them a go
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-24-2004 09:36 AM
You sayin' they're going to be a challenge after the CB?
We wont tell.
I didn't say that and can't comment
wilibus
Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:23 pm
#8
I can speak wonders for the Master Carbineer, Master Swordsman, 4440 Fencer, 0004 Prowess Idea. It is my exact template at the moment.
Defences are not perfect, but more than enough to get you by, only thing i might consider is going to possibly 3400 Fencer to pick up medic, but i rarely if ever need to heal myself since i am usually grouping with a doc, ori am in a situation where i don't need to be healed at all. As far as mid level PvE, it is an AoE monster. I was debatingchanging out pikemanforswordsman, just to mix things up andget away from the FOTM swordsman a little bit. But i have been a swordsman since well before the geo caves came around. No acklay hammers, no scythes, no hacks when i started.
blackgunz
Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:22 pm
#9
How do well do you guys think Master Rifleman, Master Carbineer, Bh 0/3/0/0 would work in PvP/Medium-High end PvE?
I dont know what the defense are and stuff, but you still cap on carbine speed, and you get +95 rifle speed =)
I dont know what the defense are and stuff, but you still cap on carbine speed, and you get +95 rifle speed =)
Message Edited by blackgunz on 10-24-2004 06:40 PM
wilibus
Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:54 pm
#10
You will have excellent offence, but defences will be seriously lacking. High End PvE with a tank you will excel incredibly. But PvP you will likely end up on your back
blackgunz
Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:47 pm
#11
wilibus wrote:You will have excellent offence, but defences will be seriously lacking. High End PvE with a tank you will excel incredibly. But PvP you will likely end up on your back
Yeah, I knew my defense would be horrible, and I kinda have gotten out of PvP, so exceling in PvE sounds much more entertaining...
I think ill try this out, see how it works, if it is a failure, I could really care less, haha.
TAfirehawk
Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:05 pm
#12
blackgunz wrote:
How do well do you guys think Master Rifleman, Master Carbineer, Bh 0/3/0/0 would work in PvP/Medium-High end PvE?
I dont know what the defense are and stuff, but you still cap on carbine speed, and you get +95 rifle speed =)
Message Edited by blackgunz on 10-24-2004 06:40 PM
Can't imagine a template using Carbineer that has Rifleman in it....
The DPS numbers from a Corr Forum post I made really tells the truth.....
***Multiple Target - Single Target - Pool Specific Specials Comparison***
Weapons taken from most recent build from Chilastra's top Weaponsmith and 25% Damage Sliced against AP0 and 0% resist target.
Master Carbineer with +60 Speed
Laser 3.3 speed and 55/354 damage
BurstShot2 (cone)= 581 DPS
FullAutoSingle2 (single)= 790 DPS
LegShot3 (action) = 484 DPS
Master Pistoleer with +74 Speed
Republic 2.4 speed and 86/266 damage
FanShot (cone) = 881 DPS
PointBlankSingle2 (single) = 852 DPS
HealthShot2 (health)= 835 DPS
Master Rifleman with +90 Speed
T-21 6.9 speed and 169/461 damage
StrafeShot2 (cone) = 2058 DPS
StrafeShot1 (single) = 1338 DPS
HeadShot3 (mind) = 2006 DPS
TAfirehawk
Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:19 pm
#13
Ah....but you say I didn't compare Speed Capped profs....well let me show you those numbers
***Multiple Target - Single Target - Pool Specific Specials Comparison***
Weapons taken from most recent build from Chilastra's top Weaponsmith and 25% Damage Sliced against AP0 and 0% resist target.
Master Carbineer with +99 Speed
Laser 3.3 speed and 55/354 damage
BurstShot2 (cone)=1917 DPS
CriplingShot(single) =2397 DPS
LegShot3 (action) = 959 DPS
Master Pistoleer with +99 Speed
Republic 2.4 speed and 86/266 damage
FanShot (cone) =1320 DPS
LastDitch(single) =1980 DPS
HealthShot2 (health)= 990 DPS
Master Rifleman with +99 Speed
T-21 6.9 speed and 169/461 damage
StrafeShot2 (cone) =4614 DPS
SurpriseShot1 (single) =2769 DPS
HeadShot3 (mind) =2769 DPS
And don't let a Rifleman complain about how BH helps Carbineers and Pistoleers but not Rifleman.....because at Master Marksman, before getting ANY BH, they get +95 Rifle Speed that gets them basically at the Speed Cap but not quite there without any SEA's and only using 110 Skill Points....
Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-24-2004 11:22 PM
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