Business And Economy Archive
Thread: What's the problem with the economy???
Page 1 of 1
mistereous1
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:06 am
#1
I'm curious. There are several threads here that talk about different aspects of it. One thing that's hard to get a sense of is what is a game economy problem and what is a server economy problem. IMO from what I've been reading, Eclipse must have the best economy of any server. There are pretty well established price ranges Resource contracts are pretty well standard, scouting contracts can be pretty high cost, but since the resource generally stays at that price with little upwards fluctuation, they must be pretty close to market rates. So how about some opinions.
Please list server name, how much for the average resource contract, how much for the average hunting contract, how much for the average good lets say a composite chestplate (because it's expensive enough to get a good price range, but not skewed by loot drops and most combat professions wear comp...please list stats as well). It could help us all to understand the conditions we're refering to better.
Cafa
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:12 am
#2
The problem I see with posts of this nature are they are better suited for a poll.
Let's say that 500 people respond. What have you gain but many pages of facts that are too cumbersome to use without compiling into some statitical report.
Mate, can you edit your own post now? I can't remember the cutoff for reaching that point in the forrum rank/time settings. If you can, may I suggest that you develop a report for others to fill out and then edit the first post everytime you update the statistics so people can see the data at a glance?
Fivo Asia
mistereous1
Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:01 am
#3
Well my plan is actually to compile it, I'm pretty good at those sort of things, so that doesn't bug me any whatsoever...the main idea is to get sort of an exchange rate between servers so when we're discussing things here we kind of have a more global idea.
johnmalm77
Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:11 am
#4
My biggest issue with the GAME economy is how it affects the community. Never in the previous economy did a friend of mine or a guildmate suffer from not being able to get a weapon that they needed. just an example of my situation; T21 overpriced were 120k, average was 40k, & good deals 12k. I personally only baught T21s 540 dam (already sliced) for 60k. That was easy & when some 1 new joined the guild I had no problem helping them out with getting them setup with armor, weapons, house, harvestors or whatever. All it took was a little of my time to make that person feel welcome & get them to a point where they could feel they were contributing w/ their own time & helping others. At the very least they weren't being left out because they lacked the gear or the gear to grind efficently. City maintanance would come up (430k a week in our case) that was no problem, a few would make donations & we'd be all set.
Now tell me how in the current economy is the player's experience enriched? Expensive items are still expensive as they should be.. in FEW cases maybe less so than before (av-21 powerplants & loot kits have come down a little.. WOW.. big deal who cares about those in reality... & just to be sure, those items HAVE NOT reduced in price because of the devs economy change.. if you believe that then you have little business posting here & you can argue with me on that all you like). T21s are still expensive as they used to be, armor is still as expensive as it used to be, food is still as expensive as it used to be, harvestors etc etc etc. Oh & in regards to special items skill tapes, exceptional weaps, crystals & such if they aren't more expensive now than previously, then they are certainly far more COSTLY now than before (In other words the new player certainly now more than ever has little to no chance of buying items like this on market). Oh & my favorite City maintenance hasn't come down, there is ABSOLUTELY NO benefit or positive incentive to group with any 1 other than for XP.
Chenza
Bria
forgot to post the things you asked.
comp un sliced:
275k low side but still 80/65
350k high side
375k for "good stuff"
enc sliced used to go for like 950k
meat cothracts:
I don't take these since I don't have scout but anywhere from 75cpu to 350cpu
I would guess that's from chefs... I think
resource pricing:
JUNK goes for 1-3 cpu
high value stuff can go for 75 cpu in low qty (I am guessing things like culsion gas cuz I just baught some of that in prep for jedi initiate, still over a month away but whatever).
weapons:
scythe is about 800k - 2mil (that's the only weapon I have baught after the economy change).
nightsister pikes (200 str mind DOTs are all that are of any value aside from high min/max damage): minimum 1.5 Mil
Now tell me how in the current economy is the player's experience enriched? Expensive items are still expensive as they should be.. in FEW cases maybe less so than before (av-21 powerplants & loot kits have come down a little.. WOW.. big deal who cares about those in reality... & just to be sure, those items HAVE NOT reduced in price because of the devs economy change.. if you believe that then you have little business posting here & you can argue with me on that all you like). T21s are still expensive as they used to be, armor is still as expensive as it used to be, food is still as expensive as it used to be, harvestors etc etc etc. Oh & in regards to special items skill tapes, exceptional weaps, crystals & such if they aren't more expensive now than previously, then they are certainly far more COSTLY now than before (In other words the new player certainly now more than ever has little to no chance of buying items like this on market). Oh & my favorite City maintenance hasn't come down, there is ABSOLUTELY NO benefit or positive incentive to group with any 1 other than for XP.
Chenza
Bria
forgot to post the things you asked.
comp un sliced:
275k low side but still 80/65
350k high side
375k for "good stuff"
enc sliced used to go for like 950k
meat cothracts:
I don't take these since I don't have scout but anywhere from 75cpu to 350cpu
I would guess that's from chefs... I think
resource pricing:
JUNK goes for 1-3 cpu
high value stuff can go for 75 cpu in low qty (I am guessing things like culsion gas cuz I just baught some of that in prep for jedi initiate, still over a month away but whatever).
weapons:
scythe is about 800k - 2mil (that's the only weapon I have baught after the economy change).
nightsister pikes (200 str mind DOTs are all that are of any value aside from high min/max damage): minimum 1.5 Mil
Message Edited by johnmalm77 on 01-20-2005 12:12 PM
Message Edited by johnmalm77 on 01-20-2005 12:23 PM
mistereous1
Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:47 am
#5
how about good resources as they spawn??? Not just older resources (I'm assuming the 75 cpu was for an older resource)
The reason for the distinction is I'm trying to stay away from the specialty markets like looted items. That's solely at the discretion of the buyer.
your points are valid. One thing I would point out is that the prices will eventually change, but there has to be a lot more drainage on the system before that occurs. There are still plenty of people out there with hundreds of millions. For example:
Thinking of the new economy, I offer 40 cpu for collecting hides. Super rich smith that's been around forever has much more money to throw around and offers 60 cpu for hides. Well my choices are either math his price or skip the contracts. As long as those credits exist, the prices will still be ahead of the economy.
johnmalm77
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:12 am
#6
I don't deal with resources day to day, since on Bria any crafter worth his salt has 10 harvestors on every planet. So the market for smiths to buy their own resource is small, JTL was the only influx of resource business that I saw. We went out & started buying steel @ 4cpu & as high as 10cpu to grind our master shipwrights.
But other than that I don't buy or sell resources day to day. Our master crafters have left the game to go play WoW, 5 in total (1 crafting doctor, 2 MWS, MAS, MT), well all but 1 (we still have 1 master AS but she doesn't make aromr very often) that is; which brings another reason why prices will stay up longer.
But in the end (a very far off end) you are right, the drain on the economy will bring the prices down.
But if that's what's going on then, then who is going to be around to change the prices & make them lower? /rant my personal problem is that it's draining the wrong people in the economy.
jsut some spitball ideas:
limit profitability of resources
no more sales of bags with items in them
Raise maintenance of things like storage
But other than that I don't buy or sell resources day to day. Our master crafters have left the game to go play WoW, 5 in total (1 crafting doctor, 2 MWS, MAS, MT), well all but 1 (we still have 1 master AS but she doesn't make aromr very often) that is; which brings another reason why prices will stay up longer.
But in the end (a very far off end) you are right, the drain on the economy will bring the prices down.
But if that's what's going on then, then who is going to be around to change the prices & make them lower? /rant my personal problem is that it's draining the wrong people in the economy.
jsut some spitball ideas:
limit profitability of resources
no more sales of bags with items in them
Raise maintenance of things like storage
Message Edited by johnmalm77 on 01-20-2005 01:13 PM
RelicOMO
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:15 am
#7
The main problems with the economy are not, I feel, what I often see people talking about here. A lot of complaints are that x is too expensive, or such and such doesn't sell any more, etc, and that the economy is somehow borked because people can't afford everything they want or whatever.
I put it to you that this is not the case. I've been closely tied to the game economy ever since I started, as lootseller, big name crafter, resourcer, etc, and the economy is not damaged in the way a lot of people say it is. The SWG economy is the freest of free markets - if things are overpriced, they will not sell, it's that simple. What is different about an SWG economy is how people view their money - there is no sense of fiscal responsibility (nobody needs to feed their kids with the proceeds of their piket missions), so essentially the market segment is composed entirely of teenagers (or adults acting like teenagers) with vast amounts of disposable income.
Without going into a lot of detail, things are not overpriced. If something is very expensive, either nobody will buy it at that price, in which case the seller will either take it off the market or reduce the price, or people are buying it at that price, which means that it is not overpriced. I feel that many things are often artificially underpriced - the market will pay more for a good or service, but people deliberately underprice it so they don't feel like they are 'gouging' - and this is no more artificial a price fix than crafters deliberately colluding to set prices for something. A thing is worth exactly what someone will pay for it - no more and no less.
What I feel is wrong with the economy is a result of game factors - there is not enough interaction between players to really get a flow of credits back and forth going. The jedi grind is largely solitary- you don't want to group, and as a jedi, you don't consume or produce anything; you don't buy armour, you don't buy weapons, you don't buy stims, you don't buy entertainer BF healing, and you don't produce much at all. All jedi really buy are buffs and food, and hence docs and chefs are the only parts of the economy stimulated by theprevalentjedi grind. With the solo group changes, there's no incentive to group - you make more money alone, so you don't interact with other players there either. JTL is similar - there is little decay in space (only armour, really), and a pilot doesn't really have to interact with a shipwright at all once he is master - his stuff is mostly better looted, and there's no real need for anything on the ground. Similarly, a shipwright doesn't have to interact at all with any other crafters (the biggest mistake in an otherwise excellent expansion), so the overall game economy is not stimulated - a shipwright doesn't need anyone.
This is, I feel, the largest problem with the economy - there's simply no real incentive to interact. If people are not buying and selling, there is no economy, and the game systems more or less encourage you to interact with as few people as possible - you get more loot by yourself, more creds, more xp, so why interact?
DrElJefeMD
Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:45 pm
#8
One of the largest problems with the game is the mechanic in which "money" is "created" and the "velocity" by which it moves through the economy. The game needs a real banking system and it also needs a real "illegitimate" side. Real economies "create" money through lending activities and velocity is interdependent on the rate of growth in output. I once again suggest reading Freidman on this in his classical Quantity Theory of Money.
The game needs both a legitimate way for players to borrow (how a collateral system would work, I don't know) and a truly illigitimate way (we all remember why Han Solo was marked by Jabba, he was late in his last payment and the vig had grown large). I think it would be totally cool if Jabba could lend money out and if you didn't repay on timeyou get on the terms for BH to go after you.
Dr. ElJefe MD
Cafa
Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:06 am
#9
5 STARS!
RelicOMO wrote:
[snip
This is, I feel, the largest problem with the economy - there's simply no real incentive to interact. If people are not buying and selling, there is no economy, and the game systems more or less encourage you to interact with as few people as possible - you get more loot by yourself, more creds, more xp, so why interact?
C3POclone
Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:30 pm
#10
What I see as a major factor in the player economy is not something anyone can do anything about, not even SOE (though, if they tried, I'm sure they could code something relevant to break and get buggy, just so they feel better.) People who have stayed in this game love it, for one reason or another. And so, they want to explore all aspects of it, and they buy another account. Or two. Or more. It's probably a natural progression of the game, but it means that people all over every server are becoming more and more self-sufficient. Husbands and wives get a couple accounts each, and suddenly they don't need to buy weapons, or perhaps food or hides. I'm doing it myself, because of the above reasons and because I got tired of waiting on someone else's vendors to be stocked to get the gear I wanted. Now, there aremany decent crafters, rangers, and loot whores who aren't getting any of my creds anymore, because it's just cheaper and more fun to get the stuff myself.
DrElJefeMD
Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:08 am
#11
Too, true
Four accounts, why? Lets look at my personal progression. Started first toon and was all combat all the time. Got totally frustrated waiting in line for buffs, started second toon, master doc. Could not find anyone to slice my weapons for toon #1 and second prof on toon #2 (master swords) so started toon number 3 - master smuggler (with artisan and merchant skills). Started to get bored and got real upset with the solo group payout so I decided to take up crafting with my Doc and sell buff packs. Could not find a decent architect vendor who was stocked with Ber13 harvestors all the time (i also lot trade and currently have 120 Ber 13 hvys down all the time) so started toon #4, master architect.
My favorite chef vendor has left the game, so yeah, toon #5 may be just around the corner, LOL
Dr. ElJefe MD
Page 1 of 1