Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Making non Master crafters useful, and wanted.

Psionic_Maji
Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:58 pm
#1

What if +100 expirimentation was thrown into the novice box. This would allow them to sell thier goods without having to master a profession. This could get combat oriented professions into crafting more, as they wouldn't have to master the profession to be successful at what they do. At the same time it would allow the masters to focus more on their high end products while allow the novices to makemore of the smaller stuff. As you progress you would just get differant schematics and abilities.


This actually isn't so far fetched of an idea. Tailors and Architechs already work this way (for the most part) and back in beta you couldn't make lower crafted items then your highest level, thus keeping novices and lower ended crafters in buisness. I just think that this would encourage more people to go into crafting without being daunted by all the skill points they would have to invest. Also everyone could become a 12 point crafter if they want to work at it.



Psionic Maji - in game name
Phaelyn
Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:19 pm
#2






Psionic_Maji wrote:

What if +100 expirimentation was thrown into the novice box. This would allow them to sell thier goods without having to master a profession. This could get combat oriented professions into crafting more, as they wouldn't have to master the profession to be successful at what they do. At the same time it would allow the masters to focus more on their high end products while allow the novices to makemore of the smaller stuff. As you progress you would just get differant schematics and abilities.


This actually isn't so far fetched of an idea. Tailors and Architechs already work this way (for the most part) and back in beta you couldn't make lower crafted items then your highest level, thus keeping novices and lower ended crafters in buisness. I just think that this would encourage more people to go into crafting without being daunted by all the skill points they would have to invest. Also everyone could become a 12 point crafter if they want to work at it.






An interesting idea to say the least, and certainly viable. But I think a LOT of the problem is not that people don't want to craft,it's that they don't want to spend ANY points on a crafting skill. Maybe by giving them instant gratification they would choose to expend 15 points - But most people who DON'T craft do not for a reason - Most of the time it's because their template just can't afford 2 points, let alone the 15 Novice takes.



Phael'yn Maxlord
- I support Common Sense - Too bad it's in short supply.

Quote that sums up the current, flawed direction of SWG:
"No, I do everything solo and I see no reason why I should need anyone else"

A way to bring Combatant and Crafter together.
FatEd060186
Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:20 pm
#3






Psionic_Maji wrote:

What if +100 expirimentation was thrown into the novice box. This would allow them to sell thier goods without having to master a profession. This could get combat oriented professions into crafting more, as they wouldn't have to master the profession to be successful at what they do. At the same time it would allow the masters to focus more on their high end products while allow the novices to makemore of the smaller stuff. As you progress you would just get differant schematics and abilities.


This actually isn't so far fetched of an idea. Tailors and Architechs already work this way (for the most part) and back in beta you couldn't make lower crafted items then your highest level, thus keeping novices and lower ended crafters in buisness. I just think that this would encourage more people to go into crafting without being daunted by all the skill points they would have to invest. Also everyone could become a 12 point crafter if they want to work at it.





Who, Where, Why, What orWhen was it ever stated that this game was supposed to be easy?


The way I see it, you're supposed to make friends who wont care if you're not a master & want to help you get there, or doing something else to get on your feet before you try to "get into crafting".


How is a novice Arch supposed to be competitive with a Master who has more credits, miners & customers?




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Psionic_Maji
Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:25 pm
#4



Perhaps, but it can also be very frustrating for those that do want to craft to not be able to sell anything until they hit master.Also while perhaps pure hardcore combatants won't go into crafting there could be some people tempted to spend50 or points to generate a solid income outside of combat. Using 50 you could go up 3 boxes of an eilite crafting profession yet still get 2 master eliete melee professions and master brawler. This would lead to specializtion on what you can make, but that wouldn't be a bad thing nessisarilly. Perhaps ranged weapons from weaponsmith for example.

Message Edited by Psionic_Maji on 01-22-2005 03:32 PM



Psionic Maji - in game name
Psionic_Maji
Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:42 pm
#5


You think it will be easy? The hard part of crafting is not reaching master. All people do is just grind until they hit it. The hard part is getting the quality resources, miners and customers, not getting the title of master. Yes people can help you reach master, but they help you by giving you resources, money, etc. There is no fufillment on part of the crafter for making anything that is useable. The only thing, and please correct me if i'm mistaken, architects expirament on is harvestors. They make loads more products that arn't. A Novice arch won't be as comptetive because they can't make all the stuff a master can, but what they can make should be able to be made well.

Message Edited by Psionic_Maji on 01-22-2005 03:45 PM



Psionic Maji - in game name
billy125
Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:42 pm
#6






Who, Where, Why, What orWhen was it ever stated that this game was supposed to be easy?


The way I see it, you're supposed to make friends who wont care if you're not a master & want to help you get there, or doing something else to get on your feet before you try to "get into crafting".


How is a novice Arch supposed to be competitive with a Master who has more credits, miners & customers?





Well no-one said it was meant to be easy, but equally no-one said that you have to be master of a profession to be competitive.


Putting the experiment points in the novice box sounds like a good idea to me. Then if you want to specialise in just making guns for example, then you can just make guns. The 'advantage' of being master would be decreased failure rates for assembly and experimentation, as well as the extra schematics it gives you.


If this system was used, then new weaponsmiths, for example, could actually make half-decent dh-17 level weapons and stuff like that that a 'master' considers themselves too good to make. This would also give people who dont like just grinding a profession out a chance to experiment with all of the different weapon types and make some kind of profit at the same time.


As the system currently is, anyone non-master makes stuff thats complete crap so whats the point in even trying to make it?


Psionic_Maji
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:40 pm
#7

Agreed, you can keep the assembly mods where they are for now, people would get that branch if they were working with rare materials. If something was added later that they could put in these branches you could distribute them out evenly thoughout the trees, +5 per box +20 for master.



Psionic Maji - in game name
ana-mo-cara
Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:01 pm
#8

One there are too many crafters in game as is. A general rule of thumb is there should probabally be one crafter for every 150 players. In a game where masters sometimes find it hard to succeed allowing players to even further dabble would probabally not be a good idea. Though I simpathise with novice crafters.


Perhaps what would be more rewarding is to introduce a few low level crafting components to many combat professions. In other words allow these items to be experimented out like a regular crafter.


Scout has generic assembly on traps. Allowing them tobe experimented would be interesting. Things like duration and strength would be interesting to work on. There is alot of generic crafting in the game.


Scout. ranger, smuggler. If these alone had more dynamic experimentation. More players could enjoy experimentation, and have it be more rewarding.


Letting novices get the mods of master though is not a good idea. No matter what you are not going to be a competitive crafter untill you invest in getting the resources. Sorry that is how it is. Thats why artisans have mission terminals. Whether you grind it out in a day or a week. Your still going to not be competitive for months.
Psionic_Maji
Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:50 pm
#9


Letting novices get the mods of master though is not a good idea. No matter what you are not going to be a competitive crafter untill you invest in getting the resources. Sorry that is how it is. Thats why artisans have mission terminals. Whether you grind it out in a day or a week. Your still going to not be competitive for months.



Exactly, which is why i feel it wouldn't be a huge deal givingthe mods to the novice professions.

Message Edited by Psionic_Maji on 01-22-2005 08:50 PM



Psionic Maji - in game name
Phaelyn
Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:26 pm
#10






billy125 wrote:






Who, Where, Why, What orWhen was it ever stated that this game was supposed to be easy?


The way I see it, you're supposed to make friends who wont care if you're not a master & want to help you get there, or doing something else to get on your feet before you try to "get into crafting".


How is a novice Arch supposed to be competitive with a Master who has more credits, miners & customers?





Well no-one said it was meant to be easy, but equally no-one said that you have to be master of a profession to be competitive.


Putting the experiment points in the novice box sounds like a good idea to me. Then if you want to specialise in just making guns for example, then you can just make guns. The 'advantage' of being master would be decreased failure rates for assembly and experimentation, as well as the extra schematics it gives you.


If this system was used, then new weaponsmiths, for example, could actually make half-decent dh-17 level weapons and stuff like that that a 'master' considers themselves too good to make. This would also give people who dont like just grinding a profession out a chance to experiment with all of the different weapon types and make some kind of profit at the same time.


As the system currently is, anyone non-master makes stuff thats complete crap so whats the point in even trying to make it?










Well, I completely disagree. As a novice Artisan working my way up, I made a good amount of things that sold on a regular basis - It's called learning how to do the profession you've chosen. I used the experiment points I was given, got the item as good as I could - and then priced it to be lower than a Master, but yet still good enough to be usable. I did a good business on the Bazaar. The mistake in the theory here is that a Novice should be able to make a certain level of parts as well as a Master, so they can sell items. That's not the actual case - You want a Novice to have the points a Master has, so you can sell goods AT THE SAME PRICE as a Master, which isn't a realistic economic model.


In addition, with the theory as laid out - you will increase the cost of high end goods even more than they are now. Why? Novices can now make 1/3 to 1/2 of whata Mastercan, with the same experimentation points - This means a lot of people will not go Master, but be producing those 1/3 to 1/2 of the goods in abundance. You've caused the Masters to lose a portion of the sales they had before, so to recoup - They stop making low end goods, focus on high end goods, and increase the price to reflect the difference between Novice items and Master items. Sure, a novice and Master could both make a DH-17 - But why would the Master bother with it at that point?


There will always be a place for non-master goods. Newer players, people wanting instant gratification on items that don't matter with experimentation.. Even the difference between master styled Brandy at 416, 50 fill @39 minutes and a lower level 402, 49 fill @38 minutes - One sells for say 200k a crate, the other at 150k - Economy of the player will dictate the case the player buys. If they can afford premium, they'll buy it - But if they need a close product at a better price, believe ME, they will buy it.




Phael'yn Maxlord
- I support Common Sense - Too bad it's in short supply.

Quote that sums up the current, flawed direction of SWG:
"No, I do everything solo and I see no reason why I should need anyone else"

A way to bring Combatant and Crafter together.
Psionic_Maji
Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:59 pm
#11

Tailors and architects already do this.



Psionic Maji - in game name
ana-mo-cara
Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:02 pm
#12

Except you have weaponsmiths dropping the munitions, and the experimentation lines. I have never liked this attitude in relation to any profession. Where the dabbler is getting all the advantages of the master, or so many of them that its pointless to be a master.


Look I am sorry if you just do not have all the points you would like, but thats no excuse to undercut masters.
Pawlin
Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:33 pm
#13






Psionic_Maji wrote:

Tailors and architects already do this.







No, architects do not get 100 experimentation points at novice.


However a lot of the things architects make don't use experimentation, like houses, factories and furniture. So, non-master architects can setup a useful business selling items. It actually works fairly well that way. THe novices can make small houses and some furniture and factories. And if you dabble a bit, say 4004 then you can make a lot of furniture and houses.


I think if more professions had more useful schematics at lower levels which either don't have experimentation or where experimentation isn't so crucialthen it would help out the non masters by giving them some items they can make that people actually want.






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