Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Maybe this is how the system should work.
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Infuser_Even
Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:53 pm
#4
Damn, thats whati was thinking. I bet it would be the best, i just hope the devs pick up on it. BLANK is a good idea. LOL
ana-mo-cara
Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:04 pm
#5
We all know that the economy is screwy we got players running empty vendors and useing them for storage. We have a pointless map skill because everyone is on it. We have a bizarre that nobody uses, and in general its a mess. Tedious for the crafters tedious for the players.
My idea is simple to make the bizarre terminal the lynchpin of what differentiates a merchant from a seller. To allow us to get rid of the excess baggage as it were and promote a healthier economy.
In this system the bizarre is limited in scope. The bizarre functions more as a means for merchants to aquire wares. Crafters to run direct access shops this is how it works.
Player with no artisan cannot sell direct to the public they must sell to a merchant shop on the bizarre.
Player with artisan can sell five items on the bizarre for 2k a peice.
Players with business 1 are able to sell 5 items outright on the bizarre with a cap of 3k per item.
Player with business 2 are able to sell 10 items for five k a peice.
Player with business 3 are able to sell 15 items a peices, but now unlocks auctions. Auctions no longer have a cap and have no snipeing rules in place that will extend the auction for 24 hours from the time of the last bid. The max instant is now 10k.
Player with business 4 this player can now run a shop on the bizarre. This is the basic vendor. The cap is 50 items. Do not get excited just yet.
Novice crafter other then artisan unlocks a shop on the bizarre with space for 50 items.
Master crafter unlocks a shop on bizarre for 5O items. Both novice and master stack.
All non merchants must connect their vendor to one bizarre though searching the shop is listed on the planets bizarre. You must go to the locked bizarre say in mos eisley tattooine to pick the item up.
Merchant shops and how they work. The merchant shop is the place for non crafter players to sell their goods. Each merchant sets the price for a resource, or item. Example bone and hide dealer sets the price of what avian bone goes at and what wooly hide goes at. The merchant simply says what they merchant in and the player chooses the appropriate one. Merchants can now compete in a stock market enviroment. Merchants sell what players sell to them. This is really a stockmarket the merchant offers more then he can sell the resource for and he or she loses money. If he or she offers to little nobody will use them.
In this the merchant becomes less then a vendor warehouser, and becomes more like a rl merchant. Trying to wheel and deal for the best price and best profit.
Novice merchant gets two boxes while the other crafters get only one sell. Merchant gets buy. Plus ten to shop slots, and plus ten to the buy box. When the merchants buy box is full. The system will no longer allow sales to that merchant. It will simply appear to players as surplus. Meaning that no matter how good the offer the merchant simply cannot buy anything else. The merchant can refuse offers. The player offering items to a merchant do not get a listing fee.
Advertiseing for each box the merchant gets plus 10 to buy plus 10 to shop.
Advertiseing 1. Means the merchant can be accessed and used anywhere on the planet from any bizarre. There is no traveling involved.
Advertiseing 2. Means the merchant can now be found and used on two planets or the merchants choice.
Advertiseing 3. Means the merchant can nowbe found and used on three planets of the merchants choice.
Advertiseing 4. Means the merchant can now be found and used on five planets of the merchants choice.
Efficency. Is the same as advertiseing in that the merchant gets plus 10 to buy and 10 to sell to his or her shop.
Efficency 1. The merchant can decrease the cost to seller by 10 percent
Efficency 2 The merchant can decrease the cost to seller by 20 percent
Efficency 3. The merchant can decrease the cost to seller by 30 percent.
Efficenty 4. The merchant can decrease the cost to seller by 40 percent.
Hireing. Is the same as the previous 2 with with plus 10 to sell and plus 10 to buy.
Hireing 1. Can decrease the cost of selling by 10 percent.
Hireing 2 Can decrease the cost of selling by 20 percent.
Hireing 3. Can decrease the cost of selling by 30 percent.
Hireing 4. Can decrease the cost of selling by 40 percent.
Management. The same as the other plus 10 to buy plus 10 to sell. Though this skill is more general purpose on the spot service.
Management 1. The merchant can now sell apprentiship points to other players.
Management 2. The merchant can now use a utility robe type 1. The merchant can now carry 25 additional items. This can be equipped along with a backpack the items will just store in the inventory though.
Management 3. The merchant gets prime deal. They can now buy or pay for npc city services at half the price, and sell the rate in the form of a card to other players for a reduction to them. Garage repair cloneing insurance travel.
Management 4. The merchant can now use utility robe type 2, and can now carry fifty additional items aslong as its equiped.
Master merchant. Gets plus 50 to buy and sell. Can now advertise on all planets. Can now decrease costs by fifty percent, and now has access to utility robe 3 and now can carry an additional 75 items in the inventory.
Note every player gets 1 shop. All sales slots will obviously stack.
How does the priceing system work. If you read the hireing and efficency skills I am sure your a bit confused. The bizarre will now be the number 1 money sink in the game. The bizarre will take 20 percent of the profit you make from a sale. So if you auction an item off for 4 million. You will not get four million. You will get 3,2 million the bizarre takes the rest. A master merchant can obviously allow you to keep more of your money. Plus it costs him less to sell his goods.
The vendor costs are now removed. You will not have a vendor limiting your ability to move or function. This means that a shop owner can feal free to move about, or even live on one planet and conduct business on another.
Real bonuses. Vendors can no longer be used as storage since they no longer exist. Empty vendors are no longer an issue. The system promotes real competition among crafters. The system generates a real money sink. When prices are small and reasonable. The costs are acceptable. When prices are outrageous the costs become harder to ignore. This dosent prevent players from interacting person to person or player to player. Infact it probabally would lead to more interaction in the form of custom orders and services. Seeing as players will be useing npc cities as more of a hub.
What do you guys think of these ideas what are the pluses or minuses you see?
Phaelyn
Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:53 am
#6
An interesting idea, but not very workable. By removing Vendors from gameplay, you eliminate yet another way people have to store and sell multiple items. Yes, Vendors are not designed to be storage, but we live in a world where we have an extremely limited inventory and storage capability.
Let's assume for a moment it is implemented - Let's look at drawbacks.
1) By placing all buying and selling at Bazaars, you direct the population that NOW goes from place to place seeking goods into several static locations. Since NPC cities are convenient to Starports, you will create bottlenecks of people doing business. Ever play on TC, and try to get near a Frog? Same situation applies here.
2) People start using other structures instead of Vendors/Houses to alleviate storage issues. Instead of Player Cities and huge Harvesting farms, you'll see fields of Factories popping up everywhere - Some functioning to produce and hold goods (Must leave them on factory, nowhere to put all the items due to limit caps (If bazaar is exclusive buy/sell area, limited space in database dictates item caps)) and the rest will be used as storage of regular items (Ever been to Dathomir around the Village?)
3) With the Management line alone as you describe it, you create a Glut of people taking the Merchant class just for the additional Inventory perks, and not for the purpose of using the Class.
4) 20% tax will not promote a thriving economy - it will create a mass run on people using Trade Forums and using the Trade Windiw instead of the Bazaar. Credits don't get inserted into the "credit drain" system since they will merely change hands via the window to avoid taxation.
There are many more drawbacks that can be pointed out, but I will leave those as an exercise for everyone to work out themselves. If your issue is Vendors being used as storage, there are better ways to address the problem. If your issue is a dead bazaar, either remove entirely or increase the Price caps on them as they stand now.
That said, Merchant shops or an Auction type vendor is an idea being bandied about in other threads, and could lead to some of the reforms you have mentioned here.
ana-mo-cara
Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:33 am
#7
Do i think players will go upmerchant for the robes i just do not see it. If they do good for them.
Do i think it will bottleneck cities to a point, but not as much as your thinking. Seeing as unlike now my system will allow merchants to sell over entire planets from any bizarre, and crafters will avoid head to heading on products on the same bizarre.
Speaking of bottlenecks how about npc cities surrrounded by shops coronet anyone give people the chance to space out.
I just cannot see players packing into coronet when the bizarre in doaba is just as useful.
Is there another way to stop the storage vendors. I do not think so any reasonable idea gets shot down with an exception. like putting price caps on a vendor. No what if I want to sell krayt tissue. Even though you know this guy would use a trade forum for that.
I do not think its about limited space i think its about near unlimited space. Every player can generally have 1000 items. You know how long a player has to play before being compelled tostart makeing choices. By which point they are used to just being able to keep what they find.
The best part is if a player is useing a bizarre shop as storage it will become immediately obvious and csrs can start removeing them.
BWVictorious
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:03 am
#8
ah... I get it!
You wrote in invisible ink!
Ill go get my revealing pen and rub all over my monitor!
Phaelyn
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:28 am
#9
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Do i think players will go upmerchant for the robes i just do not see it. If they do good for them.
One of the BIGGEST complaints in this game is lack of inventory and/or storage space. I see it mentioned in almost every profession thread, every economy thread, you name it. If you give people an option to increase inventory space at the cost of a few skill points - they will do it.
Do i think it will bottleneck cities to a point, but not as much as your thinking. Seeing as unlike now my system will allow merchants to sell over entire planets from any bizarre, and crafters will avoid head to heading on products on the same bizarre.
mm - Slight catch 22 there. IF they can use any bazaar to sell from, and any bazaar to buy from - Head to heading will be automatic on aplanetary wide basis. Remember, don't have to sell from Coronet if you can sell at Doaba and be seen in both places. head to head is actually the entire point.
Speaking of bottlenecks how about npc cities surrrounded by shops coronet anyone give people the chance to space out.
I just cannot see players packing into coronet when the bizarre in doaba is just as useful.
Yes, there would be a general spreading out of people to purchase - but at 4 major locations per planet, that is STILL players packing in - you aren't taking into consideration the sheer numbers who play at any given time.
Is there another way to stop the storage vendors. I do not think so any reasonable idea gets shot down with an exception. like putting price caps on a vendor. No what if I want to sell krayt tissue. Even though you know this guy would use a trade forum for that.
I actually suggested that removing a price cap makes the bazaar as an Auction place is viable. Using it as the end all and be all of trade throughout the galaxy isn't.
I do not think its about limited space i think its about near unlimited space. Every player can generally have 1000 items. You know how long a player has to play before being compelled tostart makeing choices. By which point they are used to just being able to keep what they find.
As a matter of fact, for ME it was inside 3 months. I've been playing for over a year now - Imagine the space I DON'T have - And believe me, I've had to pick and choose for quite some time.
The best part is if a player is useing a bizarre shop as storage it will become immediately obvious and csrs can start removeing them.Or it could also lead to "Hey look Mr CSR, this guy is selling a pack for 10 million credits - He's obviously using this as storage!" When actually it's a pack of 50 Premium Crystals - Too many people are calling for CSRs to intervene for the smallest things. So what if people are using the Bazaar for short term storage? Nobody is complaining at them using it as FREE Galaxy wide advertizing for their goods, in order to not have to take Merchant, are they? And that is exactly the same thing - A way to work around the situation using in game mechanics.
Pawlin
Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:29 pm
#10
I could see something like this style in a kind of commodities market being added on top of the existing bazaar system. I do like the idea of a merchant being able to put out buy and sell offers on various things. ONe thing though I think that SOE wouldn't want is for it to work automatically when the player isn't there. If it did then you could essentually have completely unattended play where the merchantes buy/sell offers go through all the time. SOE will want some requirement to keep people ATK.
And I don't think we should do away with the existing vendors either. But if you add some kind of commodity market on top the existing system then it would be good.
ana-mo-cara
Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:45 pm
#11
Thats why I tried to mod the buy sell for merchants low. So that is isnt just an open ended splot. The lowlevel merchant will need to keep his buys clear and send the buys to the sell. I tried to keep it balanced. By makeing it so that a merchant could endup filling up both boxes and thus is locked until he sells more items. This would keep the billionaire merchant from locking all other merchants out. He is limited by the room he has to store.
This would mean you had some merchants specializeing in one type of resource say radioactive energy. Others would specialize in small stacks while others specialize in large stacks.
I am not against players keeping vendors. I am more for those vendors being properly used. That means filled. Not used for storage. Not overpriced. The simple truth is that sometimes in game a player just cannot find a certain thing, or a certain item. If you had crafters competeing more head to head. You might find players varying there products more. Imagine looking through the weaponshop listing and finding one shop specializeing in pistols carbines heavy weapons mines and grenades. Instead of like right now a player has to search heaven and earth for a ws actually selling mines, or a weaponsmith that actually carries particle beam cannons.
ana-mo-cara
Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:56 am
#12
One if as a player you are willing to novice artisan go through business and novice merchant and then climb two more boxes for the ability to store 25 more items in your inventory. I would say you have twitchy logic. Whereas a crafter/merchant could really make use of that. Do I think every player wants that. Yes will they pay the skillpoints for it I just do not see it. Crafters maybe, but not combats.
Competition is the point. You want the system to in part control prices. To bring back some price parody. Its an element missing from the game as it is now. You do not have players trying to price reasonably.
The tax once again it helps to maintain balanced prices. We have no money sinks in the game now. None so even with the nerf of solo groups. We still have more creds pooring in. JTL is free cloneing is cheap insurance is cheap. So there has to be a way to syphon some credits out of the game. Not that it has to be 20percent. It could be fifteen or ten percent. If players choose to backdoor it thats all fine and dandy atleast they will interact with one another.
Reality check on the bags. Players who are storeing have their prices up to one dollar under a billion. Knowing that nobody could ever pay that. If its for sale then obviously you will make a description. So if a csr sees ten bags with no details about them and they are overly priced. He simply would remove the sale and send the player a notice to recollect the stuff from the stockroom. That simple.
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