Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Harvesters and the Economy
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BloodWrought
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:33 am
#1
Heya,
I have some questions on Harvesters. Is it possible to make money using them?
I've read several posts about how expensive they are to maintain. You need your energy generating windmill, and lots of credits to keep it running.
I don't need resources myself, since I'm not a crafter. However I'd like to find a way to make some money. I thought that harvesting had potential, but before I dump my cash into a few I'd like some feedback. Is it "possible/not too difficult" to run a harvester (or two), sell the resources, and make a profit? Or does it cost money and people use them simply because they get more resources faster?
--BW
I have some questions on Harvesters. Is it possible to make money using them?
I've read several posts about how expensive they are to maintain. You need your energy generating windmill, and lots of credits to keep it running.
I don't need resources myself, since I'm not a crafter. However I'd like to find a way to make some money. I thought that harvesting had potential, but before I dump my cash into a few I'd like some feedback. Is it "possible/not too difficult" to run a harvester (or two), sell the resources, and make a profit? Or does it cost money and people use them simply because they get more resources faster?
--BW
Phaelyn
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:45 am
#2
BloodWrought wrote:
Heya,
I have some questions on Harvesters. Is it possible to make money using them?
I've read several posts about how expensive they are to maintain. You need your energy generating windmill, and lots of credits to keep it running.
I don't need resources myself, since I'm not a crafter. However I'd like to find a way to make some money. I thought that harvesting had potential, but before I dump my cash into a few I'd like some feedback. Is it "possible/not too difficult" to run a harvester (or two), sell the resources, and make a profit? Or does it cost money and people use them simply because they get more resources faster?
--BW
Of course it is possible to make money from them, no matter if you have 1 or 1000. If you don't have any Artisan, you are at a minor disadvantage - You'd need to pay somone to scout out the "good" locations for you to place them. Many Artisans across each Galaxy actually make a business out of this - A great way to use your skill points within the dictates of the economy.
Secondly, you need to make a decision on what you'd prefer to do - Buy your power from a broker, or place your own. I find that it's easier to buy (If you keep to within 2cpu for a price) than to place a Wind generator. If you decide to use a wind generator - it's far more profitable to JUST place those, and sell the power outright instead of using the power you generate to feed your own harvesters.
Third, size matters. A few personals will make you credits, but their power use is higher than a Medium or Large harvester. The Larger harvesters will mine more at a faster rate, actually driving the cost of running the installation DOWN.
It's all in scope. You can make a decent living if you don't have the Artisan skills to place the harvesters yourself, but not enough to be able to buy million dollar deals. But, if you do it right, you CAN use heavies at a .6 cost, and sell the resources for around 3cpu. 2.4cpu per 100k each time = Decent living.
ObiQuixote
Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:23 am
#3
As long as you're on a 40% spot and using your own power you should be pulling resources from the ground at less then 0.5 cpu. (Cost of harvesters aside)
With good radioactive and 90% or better spots you get close to 0.2 cpu to pull resources out of the ground.
The big trick is knowing what to mine. What is needed and what sells. When is a particular resource best of server what is the server short on and so forth? I would suggest asking crafters to email you list of resources their looking for with minimum stats and the price they will pay for it. Once you get a better idea of what's what you can start getting into speculative mining and holding the best stuff until it's way out of shift. If nothing better spawns you make a mint. If something better spawns it's grind.
With good radioactive and 90% or better spots you get close to 0.2 cpu to pull resources out of the ground.
The big trick is knowing what to mine. What is needed and what sells. When is a particular resource best of server what is the server short on and so forth? I would suggest asking crafters to email you list of resources their looking for with minimum stats and the price they will pay for it. Once you get a better idea of what's what you can start getting into speculative mining and holding the best stuff until it's way out of shift. If nothing better spawns you make a mint. If something better spawns it's grind.
Message Edited by ObiQuixote on 01-24-2005 09:26 AM
IntoTheGarbage
Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:56 am
#4
Harvesting is a licence to print money.
But if you are doing it on your own, it will require a certain amount of skill points and startup capital. Ideally, you want as many heavy harvesters and fusion reactors as you have spare lots. That would allow you to harvest at maximum efficiency.
If you are going it alone, you will also need novice artisan to survey. (You will quickly discover that you really need surveying 4.) You will also need to become a merchant so that you can sell your resources on an advertised vendor.
It is a lot of trouble, but you will make ridiculous amounts of money.
If you don’t want to use any skill points and want to keep it simple, then befriend a crafter. Get him to email you waypoints where you should place your harvesters when he finds a good resources. In return, you can offer to sell him all the resources you harvest at 3 cpu. (Trust me, a lot of crafters will want to be your friend if you make this offer.) With this method you only need as many harvesters as you can afford and that you want to care for.
Kryxal
Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:02 am
#5
Further note, if you can afford them, get and use fusions for radioactive power. If you're just making what you need, wind is fine so long as you get the BER up there. Oh, and on a power and credits per unit basis, it's not the larges that are best, it's the mediums... smalls are BER 4 for 30/25, mediums are BER 10 for 60/50, larges are BER 13 for 90/75 (fusions are 60/0, wind I think are 30/0 but I haven't used in a LONG time, never used solars) in credits/power per hour. Radioactive probably sells better than wind at a given price, since it's better on a per-unit basis, but there will ALWAYS be people to buy your power, and there will always be wind available. Power is a safe fallback ... but if you know something is good, go for it.
nefarious2
Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:05 am
#6
I used to run a resource guild and we sold everything for 3cpu. In a months time the guild(about 6 guys with 5 heavies each running one fusion) made about 20 million to split. I did know a few people who were able to make about 25 million by themselves per month, the best thing to do is either find a buyer, or find a market(mineral, water, gas, etc.)
When I started I made a few personal harvs, and I sold resources on the bazaar for 3cpu. After about a week or so I was able to up to a medium harv, then when I hit the weekend I sold more than enough to buy 2 more mediums then it all took off.
My advice is to go onto your galaxy trade forums and post that you are starting to mine and what you can currently gather(if you have artisan), if you don't have artisan, place an offer to rent out your lots to someone who is looking to gather extra resources.
BloodWrought
Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:23 am
#7
OK, next question...
Lots? People keep talking about lots, and therefore I'm assuming I have to buy the land before I can harvest on it? Is this true? Can't I just find some abandoned land in the middle of nowhere which has the right resources and start harvesting?
--BW
Lots? People keep talking about lots, and therefore I'm assuming I have to buy the land before I can harvest on it? Is this true? Can't I just find some abandoned land in the middle of nowhere which has the right resources and start harvesting?
--BW
Alukolli
Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:41 am
#8
evry char. have 10lot to use in game.
evry harvester types uses 1lot to place. personal uses less ground room to place. while heavys need the most space of flat area to place.
evry factory uses 1lot also.
small houses uses 2lots except the small naboo style 2. 1lot.
medium 2lot Large hoses and guild hall. 6 lots think.
to place an harvester on some land only need flat area were its placed.
you cant place close to lairs POI and the cities with starport.. good thomb rule here are 1000 meters to closest starport city.
at player city you can place right at the city border.
when you open the structure placement screen(when you do use deed on harvesters/houses etc) you get up an overview screen. there you can se if you can place the structure. the structure you are placing have different color acording to were you move it around the screen... Red=cant place green=place.. but if the land are yellow you cant place on that....
hopes this helps
sciguyCO
Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:21 pm
#9
Yes, it's definitely possible to make money harvesting. It is still work, though, just a different kind.
1) If you haven't already, bookmark www.swgcraft.com. It's updated by users, so shift times may not be completely accurate, but it's usually pretty close. And contribute! If you see something has shifted out, mark it unavailable. If you see something has shifted in that's not in the database: add it. Although I'm usually sneaky with really high-quality stuff and place my own harvesters before updating. 
2) Next, find out what crafters need. If you go the simple route and just sell power, high PE is the way to go (generally obtained from high "Class #" radioactive). For other stuff, I've found that the "Resource usage" link on swgcraft is useful in determining what market (if any) there is for a given resource. This does only list the schematics using the exact category to pick, so if you find some good Carbonite Steel, select "Carbonite Steel", "Steel", and "Ferrous Metal" to see what can use it.
This also gets into determining stat quality. A common misconception is that if you find something with 999 OQ, crafters will throw piles of money at you to buy it. But OQ is just another stat category, completely independent of the rest, and not all items depend on OQ. Melee Weapons, for example, appear to depend solely on SR, so that 999 OQ resource would be useless to a weaponsmith if the SR was 100.
Again, swgcraft.com is a good reference. They have a listing of all the item schematics, if you look at the "Experimental Properties" you'll see what stats are needed for that item, and how important each is.
3) Choosing a harvester size to usedepends on your initial cash available, and how you plan to run your business. From a pure cost-per-unit harvestedevaluation, Medium harvesters are actually the most efficient. Heavy harvesters pull in 30% more resources than a medium in a given period of time, but cost 50% more in maintenance and power. However, you can extract more units of a resource while it's in shift (allowing you to sell larger stacks), and heavies may be the way to go if you're going to be using up all your lots.
Power generators are a little different. All generators have the same maintenance cost, but Wind gens max out at 9 BER, Solar at 8 BER, and Fusions at 14 BER. Fusions are definitely the way to go for power (especially since radioactive always has higher PE than solar or wind), but do have a much higher initial cost.
By the way: BER = Base Extraction Rate. This is how many units the harvester would extract in a minute on a 100% concentration. For lower concentrations, the amount is BER * Concentration%.
4) The main thing you're selling as a resource broker is time. Your customers are giving you credits so they don't have to spend the time (or lots) to harvest themselves. It's a pretty well-known fact that if you harvest yourself, your costis between 0.1 and 0.5 credits per unit. And people still pay 2, 5, 10, or even more credits per unit. But keeping up with new spawns, surveying spots for harvesters, and making regular trips to active harvesters eats into play time that crafters might prefer to spend crafting, in combat, or spending time with their guild.
Message Edited by sciguyCO on 01-24-2005 12:32 PM
BloodWrought
Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:22 pm
#10
Perfectly. Thank you.
I had thought y'all meant Lots as in "having to buy...". Not as in a random amount of things you can place on the world.
--BW
I had thought y'all meant Lots as in "having to buy...". Not as in a random amount of things you can place on the world.
--BW
Diorchas
Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:52 pm
#11
Two pieces of advice for you if you're looking to break into the Resource Manager game...
Know your product and customer. Doing both will give you a firm grounding in what the crafting community is looking for. I suggest you serve one of the two biggest crafting communities (Armorsmith or Weaponsmith) first and branch out only after you're 100% confident that you know exactly what that community needs. This means knowing what they need, why they need it and the history of the resources that have filled that need in the past. Not only will that serve you well when you're looking for de-spawned resources, but you will immediately know whether a newly spawned resource is worth going after and how aggressively to mine/harvest it.
Also, pricing is very important. Selling for 1cpu is almost not worth your time, but you can still make a profit at that price. With that in mind, you should be pricing your grind quality resources at 1-3cpu, depending upon what the market is like. High quality stuff goes for more than that depending upon whether it is currently in-spawn, if not in-spawn how long ago the spawn ended, the relative quality of the material and how much of it is in the marketplace.
Jagged-F3l
Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:00 pm
#12
BloodWrought wrote:
Heya,
I have some questions on Harvesters. Is it possible to make money using them?
I've read several posts about how expensive they are to maintain. You need your energy generating windmill, and lots of credits to keep it running.
I don't need resources myself, since I'm not a crafter. However I'd like to find a way to make some money. I thought that harvesting had potential, but before I dump my cash into a few I'd like some feedback. Is it "possible/not too difficult" to run a harvester (or two), sell the resources, and make a profit? Or does it cost money and people use them simply because they get more resources faster?
--BW
Quickest way for a new player to make money. For 100 credits, go learn novice artisan--the artisan trainer will even give you a mineral surveying tool. Now run artisan missions and save up enough for a wind harverester and a copule personal mineral harvester. Better yet, when earning surveying experience, keep all the metal and ore and make your own. Go to swgcraft.com, find a good metal, ore, or gemstone spawning on your server (I would personally stick with metals). Keep running those artisan missions, because you're going to have to put maintenance into your harvesters, but personal harvesters aren't expensive to run. In the meantime, learn Business I and put a vendor up in your house. Put the metals on that vendor at 2 CPU and tell all your friends that your selling all resources (even the good stuff) for 2 CPU. Roll your profits into better harvesters. Keep doing this. Within 6 weeks, you'll have 1M credits in the bank.
zelp
Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:02 am
#13
Try to get some Medium (Ber10) Harvesters to start and offer your service on the Trade-forums of your server. There is always a good resource in spawn and crafters will pay you 3-5 cpu for GOOD resources they need.
Medium Harvesters are not so expensive (going rate here on Chimaera is 25k for Minerals) and you can get easily 500-600k resources per week with 8 of those (assuming you place a Small House you have 8 Lots left.) So at 3 cpu you can make 1.5 mil per week with 150-250k expenses in maintenence and power (i would buy the power for 1.5 cpu if you have only 8 Lots). After you have done this for a while you can also switch to Ber13 that give you around 30% more resources/time.
If you want to know how exactly placing harvesters works check out the Artisan Forum and read the FAQ and Stickies.
Medium Harvesters are not so expensive (going rate here on Chimaera is 25k for Minerals) and you can get easily 500-600k resources per week with 8 of those (assuming you place a Small House you have 8 Lots left.) So at 3 cpu you can make 1.5 mil per week with 150-250k expenses in maintenence and power (i would buy the power for 1.5 cpu if you have only 8 Lots). After you have done this for a while you can also switch to Ber13 that give you around 30% more resources/time.
If you want to know how exactly placing harvesters works check out the Artisan Forum and read the FAQ and Stickies.
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