Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Feasibility of increased resource stack size, and stackable components
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MeciniaLua
Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:17 pm
#1
For a long time we've been told that database is strained. I have a couple of ideas that would lesson the database strain I believe:
1. Make Resource stacks able to go higher than 100k. You could make it up to 999k without having to change the number of digits. What's this do, well previously it would take 10 stacks to store 1000k resources, this way would only take 2 ( 1 could have up to 999k and the other the rest ).
2. On Components that are loots. Make like ones stack. For instance, Klicknik glands generally drop at 3 to 4 per Klicknik that drops then. Instead of having them appear as 3 to 4 seperate items, instead have them appear as one Icon with a number in the upper right corner indicating how many. This would work for a lot of components: Vibro motors, Klicknik glands, Krayt tissues, Sharnaff scales, Voritor Scales, etc.
3. For crafters remove the need for components to have like serial numbers when making products. For example carbosyrup is used in several items. Make the serial number irrelevant and you'll see the small odd 1 to 5 stacks start to disappear I think.
Just some ideas. Helps businesses and helps looters.
MeciniaLua
Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:17 pm
#2
For a long time we've been told that database is strained. I have a couple of ideas that would lesson the database strain I believe:
1. Make Resource stacks able to go higher than 100k. You could make it up to 999k without having to change the number of digits. What's this do, well previously it would take 10 stacks to store 1000k resources, this way would only take 2 ( 1 could have up to 999k and the other the rest ).
2. On Components that are loots. Make like ones stack. For instance, Klicknik glands generally drop at 3 to 4 per Klicknik that drops then. Instead of having them appear as 3 to 4 seperate items, instead have them appear as one Icon with a number in the upper right corner indicating how many. This would work for a lot of components: Vibro motors, Klicknik glands, Krayt tissues, Sharnaff scales, Voritor Scales, etc.
3. For crafters remove the need for components to have like serial numbers when making products. For example carbosyrup is used in several items. Make the serial number irrelevant and you'll see the small odd 1 to 5 stacks start to disappear I think.
Just some ideas. Helps businesses and helps looters.
Jagged-F3l
Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:18 pm
#3
MeciniaLua wrote:
For a long time we've been told that database is strained. I have a couple of ideas that would lesson the database strain I believe:
1. Make Resource stacks able to go higher than 100k. You could make it up to 999k without having to change the number of digits. What's this do, well previously it would take 10 stacks to store 1000k resources, this way would only take 2 ( 1 could have up to 999k and the other the rest ).
2. On Components that are loots. Make like ones stack. For instance, Klicknik glands generally drop at 3 to 4 per Klicknik that drops then. Instead of having them appear as 3 to 4 seperate items, instead have them appear as one Icon with a number in the upper right corner indicating how many. This would work for a lot of components: Vibro motors, Klicknik glands, Krayt tissues, Sharnaff scales, Voritor Scales, etc.
3. For crafters remove the need for components to have like serial numbers when making products. For example carbosyrup is used in several items. Make the serial number irrelevant and you'll see the small odd 1 to 5 stacks start to disappear I think.
Just some ideas. Helps businesses and helps looters.
Why do you think the devs do NOT implement such a notion? In fact, the reason why they do not implement it can be found in what they have implemented already. Look at how they implemented shipwright--no factory support. This prevents those that have stockpiled large quanties of resources from flooding the market with ships and components. Likewise, the devs have little interest in seeing these same players from multiplying their stacks by lifting these constraints.
Rowlyyk
Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:46 pm
#4
Well, your idea is a pretty nice one, but might be a little over the top. I'd say resource stacks of 500k and components stacks of 5 (WITH identical serial numbers/stats) would be reasonable. Doing away serial numbers is not that good an idea. In fact, if only looted components with identical serial numbers stacked, you'd know how many identical ones you have with a quick glance at the stacks and their item count.
Windsbreath
Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:24 pm
#5
Rowlyyk wrote:
In fact, if only looted components with identical serial numbers stacked, you'd know how many identical ones you have with a quick glance at the stacks and their item count.
That would be wonderful!
MeciniaLua
Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:09 pm
#6
Jagged-F3l wrote:
MeciniaLua wrote:
For a long time we've been told that database is strained. I have a couple of ideas that would lesson the database strain I believe:
1. Make Resource stacks able to go higher than 100k. You could make it up to 999k without having to change the number of digits. What's this do, well previously it would take 10 stacks to store 1000k resources, this way would only take 2 ( 1 could have up to 999k and the other the rest ).
2. On Components that are loots. Make like ones stack. For instance, Klicknik glands generally drop at 3 to 4 per Klicknik that drops then. Instead of having them appear as 3 to 4 seperate items, instead have them appear as one Icon with a number in the upper right corner indicating how many. This would work for a lot of components: Vibro motors, Klicknik glands, Krayt tissues, Sharnaff scales, Voritor Scales, etc.
3. For crafters remove the need for components to have like serial numbers when making products. For example carbosyrup is used in several items. Make the serial number irrelevant and you'll see the small odd 1 to 5 stacks start to disappear I think.
Just some ideas. Helps businesses and helps looters.
Why do you think the devs do NOT implement such a notion? In fact, the reason why they do not implement it can be found in what they have implemented already. Look at how they implemented shipwright--no factory support. This prevents those that have stockpiled large quanties of resources from flooding the market with ships and components. Likewise, the devs have little interest in seeing these same players from multiplying their stacks by lifting these constraints.
This has also lead to an increase in ship prices. Personally I see no reason why a SW shouldn't be able to use a factory. If the other crafters can do it so should the SW.
Aslo I didn't want to get rid of serial numbers on loots. And though not clearly stated in my example it was somewhat clear that I only wanted like serial numbers to stick. In the case of chefs.........large glass, small glass and cask serial numbers don't matter when making stuff you can use any of them....components in chef and tailor cannot be experimented thus all are exactly identical....not sure about the stuff from other crafting classes....thus really the serial numbers don't serve a purpose.
My point was to provide some alternative ways to help the database without hurting the game very much. Space is very limited in the game if you are obeying the rules ( that is no cross server lot exchanges which are an exploit ....and they'll fix those soon enough ) this only helps the crafters out a bit.
TomoRainer
Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:50 pm
#7
Most of us shipwrights don't want factory support, actually, for reasons which have been expressed quite lengthily and enthusiastically on our boards. There is a significant minority who does (or did) want them, but whenever the topic's come up, those in favor of maintaining the current system have carried the day.
The other ideas aren't bad, though. Depends on whether the devs would place a higher priority on decreasing the size of the database or on limiting the total assets of the filthy rich.
The other ideas aren't bad, though. Depends on whether the devs would place a higher priority on decreasing the size of the database or on limiting the total assets of the filthy rich.
Cdapolito
Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:41 pm
#8
I do believe Enoorea was talkiing about SUBcomponents like Synthetic Cloth and Alcohol. These have no bearing on the final products stats, yet requiring serial numbers means you have to do yet more math and you usually end up with some left over at the end of the run.
Increasing crate size would go a long way for most professions (bump them all up to 50 if they currently hold less than that) and increase the stack size to 200k (this still has the possibility to halve the number of resources you have stored.
MeciniaLua
Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:56 am
#9
Cdapolito wrote:
I do believe Enoorea was talkiing about SUBcomponents like Synthetic Cloth and Alcohol. These have no bearing on the final products stats, yet requiring serial numbers means you have to do yet more math and you usually end up with some left over at the end of the run.
Increasing crate size would go a long way for most professions (bump them all up to 50 if they currently hold less than that) and increase the stack size to 200k (this still has the possibility to halve the number of resources you have stored.
Yep I was talking about Alcohol, Carbosyrub, Dough, Bantha Butter, Synthetic Cloth, Fiberplast Panels, Metal Fasteners, Jewerly Settings, and the like 
bluejanus
Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:08 am
#10
Increased resource stacks have been on the architect wishlist forever. Devs already said they won't do it. Something about preventing older crafters having too much power. I forget the exact words.
GraySeven
Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:13 am
#11
Resource stacks are fine at 100k. I remember when they were 250...ick.
The 100k limit works well, but factory crates could use some adjustments. For one, make all the crates the same as far as size. It gets to be a pain when you have some components that only stack 10 to a crate, others 25, a few 50 and not really seeing a pattern as to what stacks what. Take all crates to 100 for COMPONENTS. Keep all final product crates at 25.
Shipwright problems shouldn't really enter this discussion. The Dev's have refused to state their reasons for not allowing factory support of the profession and until SW is given support equal to all the other crafting professions, you will have to rely on loot items to put in your ships as I don't see anyone sitting in front of a computer crafting all day just to fill a vendor. Thats also why the prices for crafted ship components are so high.
There has to be some restraint to prevent people like cross-server lot traders from being able to pump out huge runs of product. Right now, a factory can hold 10 million resource units in the input hopper, increasing that by a factor of 5 could cause problems.
Stacking identical loot items would be great just for convienience sake, but it would have to be done differently from factory crates. Factory crates basically "insta-craft" items when you pull one out, which is why you cant put items back into crates.
Component serial numbers are also needed as a limiter to huge product runs. As much as I, the crafter, would love to not have to keep track of serial numbered components, I know that they are needed for a reason.
Jagged-F3l
Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:43 pm
#12
MeciniaLua wrote:
Jagged-F3l wrote:
MeciniaLua wrote:
For a long time we've been told that database is strained. I have a couple of ideas that would lesson the database strain I believe:
1. Make Resource stacks able to go higher than 100k. You could make it up to 999k without having to change the number of digits. What's this do, well previously it would take 10 stacks to store 1000k resources, this way would only take 2 ( 1 could have up to 999k and the other the rest ).
2. On Components that are loots. Make like ones stack. For instance, Klicknik glands generally drop at 3 to 4 per Klicknik that drops then. Instead of having them appear as 3 to 4 seperate items, instead have them appear as one Icon with a number in the upper right corner indicating how many. This would work for a lot of components: Vibro motors, Klicknik glands, Krayt tissues, Sharnaff scales, Voritor Scales, etc.
3. For crafters remove the need for components to have like serial numbers when making products. For example carbosyrup is used in several items. Make the serial number irrelevant and you'll see the small odd 1 to 5 stacks start to disappear I think.
Just some ideas. Helps businesses and helps looters.
Why do you think the devs do NOT implement such a notion? In fact, the reason why they do not implement it can be found in what they have implemented already. Look at how they implemented shipwright--no factory support. This prevents those that have stockpiled large quanties of resources from flooding the market with ships and components. Likewise, the devs have little interest in seeing these same players from multiplying their stacks by lifting these constraints.
This has also lead to an increase in ship prices. Personally I see no reason why a SW shouldn't be able to use a factory. If the other crafters can do it so should the SW.
Aslo I didn't want to get rid of serial numbers on loots. And though not clearly stated in my example it was somewhat clear that I only wanted like serial numbers to stick. In the case of chefs.........large glass, small glass and cask serial numbers don't matter when making stuff you can use any of them....components in chef and tailor cannot be experimented thus all are exactly identical....not sure about the stuff from other crafting classes....thus really the serial numbers don't serve a purpose.
My point was to provide some alternative ways to help the database without hurting the game very much. Space is very limited in the game if you are obeying the rules ( that is no cross server lot exchanges which are an exploit ....and they'll fix those soon enough ) this only helps the crafters out a bit.
Sorry, but ship prices have nothing to do with lack of factory support. I have been a shipwright since the day JTL went live (and for many months during beta, but we didn't have to actually sell things in beta), and here are some factors that affect ship prices:
- Ships (and even components) require significant quantities of resources. For example, all master ships (including multi-player ships) require 150K units of resources (mostly steel and ore).
- Ships and components require a large variety of resources, especially when considering upgrades. Now Iam familiar with and have beenprofessions that put even greater demands on the crafter, but the firstfactor exacerbates this factor. Because we need large quantities of so many different resources, we are left in situation where we end up having to buy resources.
- Resource vendors mark up quality resources insanely high. What justifies any player selling any resource at 10-20 times the investment they had to put into the process?
- Demand, demand, demand...I don't know what the situation is like on other servers, but on Chilastra I have observed a significant fall off in demand for ships and ship components. Let's face it, once you have mastered pilot, there just isn't a lot attracting players into space.
FishyDude
Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:29 pm
#13
MeciniaLua wrote:For a long time we've been told that database is strained. I have a couple of ideas that would lesson the database strain I believe:1. Make Resource stacks able to go higher than 100k. You could make it up to 999k without having to change the number of digits. What's this do, well previously it would take 10 stacks to store 1000k resources, this way would only take 2 ( 1 could have up to 999k and the other the rest ).2. On Components that are loots. Make like ones stack. For instance, Klicknik glands generally drop at 3 to 4 per Klicknik that drops then. Instead of having them appear as 3 to 4 seperate items, instead have them appear as one Icon with a number in the upper right corner indicating how many. This would work for a lot of components: Vibro motors, Klicknik glands, Krayt tissues, Sharnaff scales, Voritor Scales, etc.3. For crafters remove the need for components to have like serial numbers when making products. For example carbosyrup is used in several items. Make the serial number irrelevant and you'll see the small odd 1 to 5 stacks start to disappear I think.Just some ideas. Helps businesses and helps looters.
GOOD IDEAS. 5-STARS AND A HI-5
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