Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Galaxy-Wide Vendor Search Issues tackled
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Referring back to this topic/post which has been locked
OK. The solution to ALL of these problems is incredibly simple...
1) The Price of the item for sale will not be displayed.
To prevent the PRICE of the ITEM from being placed in the NAME of the ITEM i.e. ( Probot Adv Model 12K) the terminal doesn't display the name of the ITEM as a crafter names it. Ever notice that when you look at a custom named item, in the description it reads VARIATION OF: ?
2) The Terminals should operate as merely a VENDOR ITEM LISTING. SO and SO has THIS and THAT. Nothing more, nothing less. Looking for a DE-10 pistol? Instead of looking for ages on every vendor of that type on the planet, the terminal displays who has it and where...
And
In certain cases items that are very RARE like a DE-10 or a DE-10 schematic will be allow to be listed without needing the advertising skills in some cases. Maybe not even on a vendor. Aa player without merchant skills could just drop his name and rare item on the Vendor Item Listing with his name, item, no description, and a button that says “Email this person”
3) No instant delivery. You must go to the vendor/player wherever they are and pay for it and pick it up there.
An item mail/mailbox system (without Check on Delivery) would be nice for players that don’t have the skills necessary to place a vendor… or you could just do what players do now and contact your nearest merchant…
4) You must pay for using the terminal to list your items. It isn't free to advertise a half page ad in the newspaper now is it?
5) How do you make it so that the advertising tree isn't ruined? Varying levels of skill will determine whether or not your Items are displayed or just your vendors name and location.
Advertising
Level 4 – Items listed galaxy wide
Level 3- Items listed planet wide
Level 2- Profession/Vendor location listed galaxy wide
Level 1- Profession/Vendor location listed planet wide
This solves the hassle of hopping from vendor to vendor to find what you’re looking for. I believe that the ideas above minimize any repercussions on the current standing of the economy.
This is what we call Heuristics in the real world…. Looking for a good book to read? Go get “How to Solve It”.
Have I missed anything? Do you have comments or questions? Send your Emails to ahazi.entilzah . Feedback would be much appreciated.
P.S. I really think that merchant skills should be free like Politician. Sales should generate XP for Merchant and browsing a terminal still gives out XP, but should give out less than a purchase… I have Ideas. More on this later...
EntilzahValen wrote:
No offense, but most of your ideas are simply a rehash of things that have already been suggested many times. There are 2 things however in your ideas that I must stringently object to - And I will tell you why.
In certain cases items that are very RARE like a DE-10 or a DE-10 schematic will be allow to be listed without needing the advertising skills in some cases. Maybe not even on a vendor. Aa player without merchant skills could just drop his name and rare item on the Vendor Item Listing with his name, item, no description, and a button that says “Email this person”
So, to keep things of exceptional high value in the system, you suggest to allow people to completely BYPASS the system? The Vendor and Bazaar system need to work on concrete items, not just the "idea" that you HAVE an item you want to sell. May as well just keep using the Trade Forums and Spamming Starports - This is just another way to sell things without investing time and skill points to be able to do so.
P.S. I really think that merchant skills should be free like Politician. Sales should generate XP for Merchant and browsing a terminal still gives out XP, but should give out less than a purchase… I have Ideas. More on this later...
If everyone had merchant for free, you can count on a LOT more problems with the system than we have now. Everyone would instantly have at least one vendor. If searching for items NOW is a hassle, multiply that by a factor of at least 100 when everyone has a vendor. Sure, Galaxy wide searching makes up for this, right? Instead of 20-50 pages of items to look through based on the amount of Merchants NOW, you'd have 100s of pages to go through to find an item. Items would never be deleted in this case as well - Why ditch it when you can toss it on your vendor? The database will be glutted with 1000s of items that before this point were deleted because they had no way to sell, of it wasn't worth their time to sell.
There are REASONS why there is a Merchant profession, and they AREN'T to "Just to keep the Combat characters poor". It limits the size of the database. It makes for different combination of Profession choices. A big mistake was made when Politician was made SP free - Now everyone is grabbing politician and trying to get votes for XP. The same thing will happen if they make Merchant SP free - And even worse.
EntilzahValen wrote:
Previous Locked Post
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dev_archive&message.id=101120
Referring back to this topic/post which has been locked
OK. The solution to ALL of these problems is incredibly simple...
1) The Price of the item for sale will not be displayed.
To prevent the PRICE of the ITEM from being placed in the NAME of the ITEM i.e. ( Probot Adv Model 12K) the terminal doesn't display the name of the ITEM as a crafter names it. Ever notice that when you look at a custom named item, in the description it reads VARIATION OF: ?
Strongly disagree with this as it also protects resellers which is the principle reason for putting the price in the name.
2) The Terminals should operate as merely a VENDOR ITEM LISTING. SO and SO has THIS and THAT. Nothing more, nothing less. Looking for a DE-10 pistol? Instead of looking for ages on every vendor of that type on the planet, the terminal displays who has it and where...
And
In certain cases items that are very RARE like a DE-10 or a DE-10 schematic will be allow to be listed without needing the advertising skills in some cases. Maybe not even on a vendor. Aa player without merchant skills could just drop his name and rare item on the Vendor Item Listing with his name, item, no description, and a button that says “Email this person”
This basically makes it useless. No way am I wasting my time looking through 20 pages of stuff to just get a general item name with no stats or details and no idea of pricing. I might as well skip using the search and just ride from vendor to vendor as I do now.
3) No instant delivery. You must go to the vendor/player wherever they are and pay for it and pick it up there.
An item mail/mailbox system (without Check on Delivery) would be nice for players that don’t have the skills necessary to place a vendor… or you could just do what players do now and contact your nearest merchant…
I do agree with this. This is very important.
4) You must pay for using the terminal to list your items. It isn't free to advertise a half page ad in the newspaper now is it?
Merchant vendor maintanance was going to be increased by turning this option on, therefore they would already be paying more and thus double jeopardy isn't needed.
5) How do you make it so that the advertising tree isn't ruined? Varying levels of skill will determine whether or not your Items are displayed or just your vendors name and location.
Advertising
Level 4 – Items listed galaxy wide
Level 3- Items listed planet wide
Level 2- Profession/Vendor location listed galaxy wide
Level 1- Profession/Vendor location listed planet wide
Not bad suggestions here.
This solves the hassle of hopping from vendor to vendor to find what you’re looking for. I believe that the ideas above minimize any repercussions on the current standing of the economy.
This is what we call Heuristics in the real world…. Looking for a good book to read? Go get “How to Solve It”.
Have I missed anything? Do you have comments or questions? Send your Emails to ahazi.entilzah . Feedback would be much appreciated.
P.S. I really think that merchant skills should be free like Politician. Sales should generate XP for Merchant and browsing a terminal still gives out XP, but should give out less than a purchase… I have Ideas. More on this later...
Hmmm no they shouldn't be. I don't want another thousand vendors squatting and barking everywhere I go. I don't want 100s of pages of items to look through on the galaxy search ( In fact I believe that past page 10 you probably won't make any sales....folks are generally lazy. They'll get tired of turning pages especially if you use points 1 and 2 you made above.....
EntilzahValen wrote:
As far as me rehashing the Topic, I probably did. I don't have the time to pour over 51 pages of posts. I'm positive that someone has had these ideas before, maybe not all at once. I onlyread pages 1 - 6 and page 51
You are correct on both points...
Nix the Rare Item idea...
As far as Merchant is concerned, maybe what I'm not getting at is "Merchant", and I really didn't elaborate on what I meant...
Everyone should have the option of having at least one vendor without skills... and none of the special little things to go with it like advertising or hiring...
for combat players who trade with other combat players... its a pain. I end up needing a vendor not for selling things but for use as a personaly mailbox
Back to work
No they shouldn't be allowed to have a vendor for no skill points. For 24 skill points anyone can get a vendor. Spend the points on it if you want it. Don't slap those in the face that are paying them just because you find it inconvient to spend the necessary points to get it.
That would be like me saying with Enoorea that everyone should have basic medic skills and be able to use any stimpack usuable by novice medic ( which would be only a 15 skill point investment ). ( Believe me I could use the skill, however I have not spent the skill points on it thus I can't do it )
Its wrong to assume you should have something for free which costs points in the game system......
A merchant can create a Listing Record - this is a summary and pulls data from the selected items on his vendor - so if I was listing my T21 stock I would select the items I wanted to list - then create a listing record (a new function) this would create a summary record of the items that would be placed in the Vendor search system for as long as the items were not purchased and the record was valid. The listing record would cost money to create and be valid for a period of time.
The listing record would summarise a little like this.
Raw data
Vendor is called : Hairy Guns
Location is : Jedi Town, Dantooine, 200, 200
Selected items for this listing record :
T21 min 250 max 550 spd 7.5
T21 min 220 max 520 spd 7.5
T21 min 190 max 450 spd 6.1
T21 min 200 max 500 spd 7.5
T21 min 200 max 500 spd 7.5
T21 min 200 max 500 spd 7.5
T21 min 300 max 560 spd 7.5
T21 min 200 max 500 spd 5.5
T21 min 200 max 500 spd 6.5
T21 min 200 max 500 spd 6.5
Listing record:
Vendor Location Planet Item Stock Updated
Hairy Guns Jedi Town Dantooine T21 10 1-1-05 11:00am
A detail panel at the side would show me the lowest min dmg and highest max dmg - ie. a summary of the stats over all the selected weapons. I would be able to filter based on item group and type as well as location (like now) and also sort based on the headings (as now)
The listing record would be updated when a sale is made. Vendors would be limited to maybe 20 listing records, each costing a fee.
My goal with this would be distribute the database loading, btw Im NOT a database programmer.
So now I can locate a vendor with the item I want, in stock (and the listing is now accurate and not a snapshot), see the basic stats and the kind of quality on offer (and a clever vendor will list items for summary very carefully so as to make sure his best stock is visible)
Varousk wrote:Hi,Ok you all need to go take a page from the EBAY play book. Reality on user controlled auctions on a massive scale.Easiest way to deal with the smorgasboard of data when searching for an item, install strong filter and sort options. Currently there is only very basic filter and sorting available. Based upon "item type", name, price range. If you wanna see all rifles under 50k in price with a T in the name that do over 400 max dmg, I see no reason why you shouldnt be able to list only the items that fit that criteria. For some items that always have specific stats that people always care about allow filtering for it. IE: max dmg, base effectiveness just to name two very very common ones. Weapons and Armor being the two most common regular purchases for most people. There is already a category system in place, just link a table to it of allowable filter/sort options when opening a certain category. Another good example for this, for resources put in stats you want. You want to list all the metal with OQ over 900, imho you should be able todo this. Few of us customers know the resource names by heart, but we know what stat we care about.Allow the list to show prices and the item names endowed by the creators. Removing this is just silly imho. You dont like competition for prices, guess what you are charging too much. Overpricing is rampant in the game. LIke people selling FWG schematics for 200k or more!! Or swoops for 30k, omg an item that the difference between uber materials and grind materials is only 400-600 condition boost. Would you pay 3x the price for a tires on a car that last 80k miles instead of 60k. I know I sure would not.I like the idea on the skill tree limiting the scope of item listings. But this should apply beyond just the advertising tree. Have costs affected by the efficiency tree. Have the number of vendors you can plug into the galaxy net be determined by the hiring tree. Add a new counter. Max galaxy wide item count, controlled by the management tree. Easiest way to do this, first have a setting on the vendor controll for galaxy link. Then within the item listing, just have a check-box for galaxy wide listed. Also a good time saver for players, have a vendor control option - all items on this vendor list in galaxy wide.And I agree merchant should not be free SP. There is definate skill involved in being a good barterer. Also remove the current ability to learn a branch, get its advantages, then surrender it without ill effects. But the bonuses of being master should be increased to give people greater incentive to use it. Greater item counts, vendor counts, price reductions, and honestly full galaxy wide listings I think should be reserved for the master box. I mean what government body or commerce allegiance would give such sales power to just any punk on the street.Also for maintenece costs, vendors simply being linked to planet/galaxy wide info should pay a hefty price, also each item listed should incurr a maint cost each day it is listed. I would even support an imperial sales tax system. Nothing to extreme, say 1% or so and items purchased fromt he galaxy/planet wide system should bypass any local taxes. After all they item was not paid for there. Look at current state sales tax schemes. You bypass state sales tax if you buy from a cataloge or online.You all should look at real life commerce more, many of the issues the SWG merchants have can be solved by applying solutions that numerous others have already come up with. Don't re-invent the wheel, borrow it!And before the flames begin, I do not claim any sort of ownership to any of this. I am posting my 2 cents on what I would line to see and what I think would bring the enrichment the Devs are trying to get with this modification to how vendors work.Radiant.Varousk
In real life, you have taxation and tariffs. In real life, it's illegal to buy certain products cheaply elsewhere and resell them in state at below the going rate. In real life you have regulatory agencies and groups like the FTC, FCC, FDA, BBB and the Chamber of Commerce. How much of the world is like Ebay? Very little. Why is that so? Because most of the products on Ebay are discontinued, wholesale, sale by owner and knock-offs. You don't see Nike selling their products like an auction house. No, they sell at their stores and to retailers or the accompanying websites. The real world market does not use the Ebay model to a great extent.
MeciniaLua wrote:
EntilzahValen wrote:As far as me rehashing the Topic, I probably did. I don't have the time to pour over 51 pages of posts. I'm positive that someone has had these ideas before, maybe not all at once. I only read pages 1 - 6 and page 51You are correct on both points...Nix the Rare Item idea...As far as Merchant is concerned, maybe what I'm not getting at is "Merchant", and I really didn't elaborate on what I meant...Everyone should have the option of having at least one vendor without skills... and none of the special little things to go with it like advertising or hiring...for combat players who trade with other combat players... its a pain. I end up needing a vendor not for selling things but for use as a personaly mailboxBack to workNo they shouldn't be allowed to have a vendor for no skill points. For 24 skill points anyone can get a vendor. Spend the points on it if you want it. Don't slap those in the face that are paying them just because you find it inconvient to spend the necessary points to get it.
That would be like me saying with Enoorea that everyone should have basic medic skills and be able to use any stimpack usuable by novice medic ( which would be only a 15 skill point investment ). ( Believe me I could use the skill, however I have not spent the skill points on it thus I can't do it )
Its wrong to assume you should have something for free which costs points in the game system......
Ok no skill points but you have to actually be in the merchant profession tree to use them.
Marksman don't have to use skill points to use special attacks. I see vendors as a "special" ability that merchants should be able to use once they start down that path.
Offtopic: I only partially agree w/ you on the medic thing but there's a difference. Anyone can stick themselves w/ a needle or pop some pills. Training in novice medic should give you the ability to use it to its fullest extent.